OT - back pain and sitting

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/05 7:47:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,

illneverbecool@... writes:

> Don't know how people sit all day in a chair. <looks around the room>

> just realized I don't own a chair.

____

That actually sounds quite attractive to me at this point, providing I could

get up and move often. I imagine its no good to be in the same position all

the time, but I'm on my feet for 10 hours (with two breaks) and the weight of

my body is compressing my lower back and the tops of my feet so that they are

both perpetually tight and sore. And whatever I do at work with my hands is

much harder on them than typing ever has been.

I was looking through some papers I got from my physical when I first got

hired at this job, and I realized I was given two pages of hand stretches I'm

supposed to do. No one does them, which might explain why a third of the people

in my building have " monkey foot " (the involuntary snapping up of the finger,

usually ring finger on right hand) and others have other hand problems.

The culture at work is one where if you stretch you get made fun of. The

fork lift driver was once bending over and touching his toes and someone said,

" Hey this ain't a yoga class. " I am considered like the biggest freak of nature

at this place and am a subject of constant amusement to my co-workers. It

baffles all of them that I brush my teeth after I eat. One cannot even speak of

what they feel if they chance to see me break out the floss!

Wouldn't it be great if one's work was of a nature that one could do it while

simultaneously doing yoga and receiving a massage?

If anyone finds such work, let me know!

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/05 9:16:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

christiekeith@... writes:

> >> Wouldn't it be great if one's work was of a nature that one could do it

> while

> simultaneously doing yoga and receiving a massage? <<

>

> Spa reviewer?

___

That's a great idea! I'll start putting a resume together now...

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Speaking of squats and lower back problems....

My family gave me money to buy an ergonomic office chair for Christmas. I've

been researching this issue on the web, and my head is spinning.

I work TEN HOURS A DAY MORE MORE at my computer. I have tried out " kneeling

chairs " and they feel wonderful for the short time I'm testing them, but

can't imagine they'd be comfortable hour after hour.

The truly high-end chairs are way out of my range, price-wise.... some of

them are a thousand dollars or more. I have to keep this under $600.

I have tried an Aeron chair that a friend owned, and found it hideously

uncomfortable - while she loved it.

I have pain in my lower back, which a physical therapist told me was from

shortened hip flexors from too much right angle sitting. I have looked into

working standing up, which again, is quite comfortable in the short term,

but I can't imagine doing it for ten hours.

I know that the human body simply isn't meant to be still for ten hours, and

I do get up, walk around, do yoga, take the dogs out, garden, do chores (I

work out of a home office) ... I don't sit there for that amount of time

without moving. Maybe I need to have a standing desk, a kneeling chair, and

a regular sitting chair, and do all three throughout the day. If so, I still

need to buy a chair.

So - does anyone have a chair they love? I'd appreciate hearing of any

personal experiences, as I'm in a lot of pain, mostly not while I AM

sitting, but at night when I go to lie down. After 5 hours or so lying down,

my lower back starts spasming, presumably from my hip flexors starting to

relax. I do yoga to stretch them, and also use Bill Pearl's program for

" white collar workers, " which has exercises for stretching the flexors. But

my yoga teacher said that nothing we do for half an hour a day is going to

undo the damage of ten hours of sitting, and she said I need to get serious

about fixing this problem.

Thanks for any help!

Christie and her aching back

[Guest guest]

Hi Christie,

Have you tried using a Swiss ball? Some people swear by them, as you need to

be constantly moving about and stabilising yourself.

I have a sway back and I find that the kneeling chairs give me backache

within 2-3 minutes, whereas I can sit on a normal office chair for hours on

end with no problem. So you and I are quite different. The Swiss ball seems

to have the same effect as the kneeling chair on me, so if they are

comfortable for you, the Swiss ball might be also (and a heck of a lot

cheaper than a chair!!)

DH on the other hand, does reasonably OK on a kneeling chair. He spent a

long time finding a suitable office chair, and ended up with one that is

very adjustable. He has the seat sloping downwards slightly, which works for

him but gives me backache, again within a few mins. We have to have two

chairs in the office and swap them around depending on who's using the PC.

Price doesn't seem to be the deciding factor, but how well the chairs fits

you. You probably need to spend a couple of hours in a furniture shop

sitting in them all.

Hope that helps a bit,

deb

-----Original Message-----

From: Christie [mailto:christiekeith@...]

My family gave me money to buy an ergonomic office chair for Christmas.

I've

been researching this issue on the web, and my head is spinning.

I work TEN HOURS A DAY MORE MORE at my computer. I have tried out

" kneeling

chairs " and they feel wonderful for the short time I'm testing them, but

can't imagine they'd be comfortable hour after hour.

So - does anyone have a chair they love? I'd appreciate hearing of any

personal experiences, as I'm in a lot of pain, mostly not while I AM

sitting, but at night when I go to lie down. After 5 hours or so lying

down,

my lower back starts spasming, presumably from my hip flexors starting to

relax. I do yoga to stretch them, and also use Bill Pearl's program for

" white collar workers, " which has exercises for stretching the flexors.

But

my yoga teacher said that nothing we do for half an hour a day is going to

undo the damage of ten hours of sitting, and she said I need to get

serious

about fixing this problem.

[Guest guest]

Christie-

>I have tried an Aeron chair that a friend owned, and found it hideously

>uncomfortable - while she loved it.

Did you adjust it, though? The Aeron is about as adjustable as a chair can

be, so you can't judge it if you try it with someone else's settings. I

was always skeptical about the Aeron -- it was so fashionable for awhile it

sounded more like a status symbol than an ergonomic device -- but then I

worked in one for about four hours straight (having adjusted it) and darn

if it wasn't the most comfortable work chair I've ever tried. Now I want

one, but they ain't cheap, even used.

-

[Guest guest]

> Hi Christie,

>

> Have you tried using a Swiss ball? Some people swear by them, as you

need to

> be constantly moving about and stabilising yourself.

.. ..The Swiss ball seems

> to have the same effect as the kneeling chair on me, so if they are

> comfortable for you, the Swiss ball might be also (and a heck of a lot

> cheaper than a chair!!)

Christie,

I second that you should try a swiss ball--would be cool if it works.

you can get pretty dynamic on them, too.

I squat on the floor or sit on a zafu in front of my weeny lil laptop.

Don't know how people sit all day in a chair. <looks around the room>

just realized I don't own a chair.

B.

[Guest guest]

I have ordered a Swiss Ball. Even getting a really durable one with a pump

and two day shipping it was only around $70. If this works out, then maybe a

combo of this, a kneeling chair, and standing will do the trick. Maybe I

don't need a regular chair at all.

, no, I didn't adjust the Aeron. I didn't think of it, duh, and this was

my ex's chair and we don't speak anymore so I won't get a second chance. <G>

Please keep the recommendations coming, I really appreciate the help!

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> Wouldn't it be great if one's work was of a nature that one could do it

while

simultaneously doing yoga and receiving a massage? <<

Spa reviewer?

Christie

[Guest guest]

> I recommend that you check out www.designforcomfort.com.

> They carry a Norwegian line of furniture called Stokke.

These look fantastic, but cost $900-$1200.... however, I'm going to see if

they are sold anywhere locally and at least go sit in one. Or kneel, as the

case may be. <G>

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> That's a great idea! I'll start putting a resume together now...<<

You go!

Christie

[Guest guest]

> Wouldn't it be great if one's work was of a nature that one could do

it while

> simultaneously doing yoga and receiving a massage?

>

> If anyone finds such work, let me know!

>

I come pretty close--feeling so lucky now, thanks for bringing my

attention to it.

B.

/no chairs

//no shoes

[Guest guest]

I am almost positive that you have to buy from designsforcomfort as they

wholesale and do most of the retail. I took the quantum leap bought all of my

stuff sight unseen and have no regrets.

vsp

Christie <christiekeith@...> wrote:

> I recommend that you check out www.designforcomfort.com.

> They carry a Norwegian line of furniture called Stokke.

These look fantastic, but cost $900-$1200.... however, I'm going to see if

they are sold anywhere locally and at least go sit in one. Or kneel, as the

case may be. <G>

Christie

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[Guest guest]

>So - does anyone have a chair they love? I'd appreciate hearing of any

>personal experiences, as I'm in a lot of pain, mostly not while I AM

>sitting, but at night when I go to lie down.

I have an " exercise ball " that I sit on as a chair alternative. I can't

do it all the time, it takes too much work! But it does make you

want to balance and move, and it is a great workout for the back

just SITTING. That and kneeling now and then (stretch out the knees)

and a couple of other stretching exercises.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

[Christie] I work TEN HOURS A DAY MORE MORE at my computer. I have

tried out " kneeling chairs " and they feel wonderful for the short time

I'm testing them, but

can't imagine they'd be comfortable hour after hour. [...]

[MAP] Christie, Check out <nadachair.com>. Could be the best $60 you

ever spend. I got one a few years ago and I have very happily spent

hundreds of hours sitting in it, often away from home in situations

where disposing of my body in some manner for an extended period of

time would be otherwise rather uncomfortable. I once used it while

attending a concert of a 6-hour piece of music (Morton Feldman's

String Quartet II) performed with no breaks or intermissions of any

kind and I was probably the only person who lasted the whole way

through without moving and didn't feel like crap afterwards! It was

discrete too; I mean, heck, I was seated in the center of the first

row at Zankel Hall in the Lincoln Center! I always have my Nada chair

in the trunk " just in case " and I also keep a self-inflating pad I

bought at Kmart for $5 because my butt is skin and bones and it hurts

to sit on hard surfaces. I can stuff both in a bag for library visits

and that kind of thing. Very elegant system.

I squat on the floor or sit on a zafu in front of my weeny lil laptop.

Don't know how people sit all day in a chair. <looks around the room>

just realized I don't own a chair.

[MAP] Wow, you are so cool! My feeble attempt to compete with your

coolness is to mention I don't own a fork. Unfortunately I own chairs

and also use them sometimes too, but I'm in the process (as with most

of my " processes " , filled with a great deal of procrastination) of

building a standing desk using wood (less than $200 in materials

instead of the $1500+ commercial options outside my budget). When

that's done I will resolve to never sit at home except for a few

minutes here and there on rare occasions.

So, yeah, that's my other helpful suggestion for Christie--just stand

all the time. I often read books standing up and I usually eat

standing up.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

>> Check out <nadachair.com>. Could be the best $60 you

ever spend. <<

Thanks ! I just ordered it, it does look useful. I'm thinking that a

combination of sitting/standing/Swiss Ball and this might be the way to go.

My dad, bless him, gave me his " used " flat screen monitor, so I'm going to

have a keyboard stand and monitor stand built to flip down from the shelves

over my desk, so I can work standing up by just lifting the monitor and

keyboard up a bit - no way I could have done that with my old, gargantuan

monitor!

I'm probably going to buy a relatively inexpensive but decent chair with the

leftover money, rather than expect the chair to solve all my problems.

It's interesting, because I remember the last time I worked in an office, my

co-workers always used to joke that " Christie can't sit still " .... that I

was always getting up and moving around. The body was just not meant to sit

still all day long, and since I have the luxury of doing so, I am going to

be more serious about setting a timer so I don't sit more than an hour or so

at a time.

Thanks for all the feedback!

Christie

[Guest guest]

Christie,

After catching up on this thread (I think), no one has said anything

about a chiropractor? Maybe you need an adjustment?

Also, do you sleep with a body pillow (if you sleep on your side)? I

was recently reminded that I slept better and had a lot less back

problems when I slept with a body pillow. A chiro explained that it is

because both the knees and the elbows are supported properly, without

gravity allowing them to drop and pull on the spine all night.

My back problems come from an old car accident, and 5 years of either

pregnancy, or attachment parenting straight. The youngest is almost up

to 1/3 my weight...and the back gets worse everyday now...ah well,

just a litlle while longer!

Catz

>

> Please keep the recommendations coming, I really appreciate the help!

>

> Christie

[Guest guest]

Thanks, ! Yes, I get chiropractic.... also physical therapy (as much as

my insurance will pay for).

Christie

[Guest guest]

Christie,

fwiw, I like my Swooper stool... its marketing pitch is that it promotes

" active sitting " . it's built on a huge spring, so the seat (and you) are

always moving, just a bit. They even caution you to start using it slowly,

so you won't overdo the exercise it gives your lower back muscles... it's

fun to bounce on too, as my kids can tell you... :-)

here's one source: http://www.sitincomfort.com/swopper.html

[Guest guest]

>> here's one source: http://www.sitincomfort.com/swopper.html <<

I agree it looks great, but it's SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS! Eeeek!

I got the Nada Chair that Mike recommended and am loving it - it's not a

chair but a belt with knee loops that you wear while sitting in a chair. And

today a local handyman is putting in a little drop-down shelf system that I

can use at my desk when standing. So I'm hoping that those two things, in

combination with one more piece, which will be some sort of kneeling chair

or stool with " active sitting, " will do the trick.

I'll report back, thanks everyone for the great ideas!

Christie