Re: My digestive problems

[Guest guest]

I wanted to clarify my muddy statement about fats being processed by

the liver.. of course it is the bile that actually emulsifies the fats

but liver produces the bile so it definitely involves the liver..

BTW I found a wonderful diagram and outline of digestion. Check it out!

http://faculty.clintoncc.suny.edu/faculty/./files/Bio%20102/Bio%20\

102%20lectures/Digestive%20System/digestive%20system.htm

Also, a note of caution: " Fasting decreases gallbladder movement,

causing the bile to become overconcentrated with cholesterol, which

can lead to gallstones. "

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/gallstones/

~Robin

[Guest guest]

On 7/27/05, Robin Ann <grainwreck@...> wrote:

> [robin] 16 TBSP of fat on a Fast? That's about 1600 units of food

> energy right there -- hardly a signal to your body that you are in a

> resting mode...

Well naturally there are a variety of things going on in a fast, and

the VCO fast (developed by Bruce Fife) will not encompass all of them

(and emphasize ones that a juice fast will not. And, of course, being

a 100% fat diet, I'm sure it would induce ketosis, which would make

that *much* less than the about 2000 (not 1600) calories the label

says it would be.

Anyway the purpose of the VCO fast is to provide energy in a form that

is toxic to pathogenic organisms, and does not possess the ability to

fuel the organisms. Also VCO has healing properties and is easier to

digest than other fats, etc.

A juice fast, on the other hand, is lower in calories, but provides a

more or less 100% sugar diet, which might emphasize the low-calorie

aspect of fasting more than the VCO fast (although I doubt it, due to

ketosis), while the VCO is more effective in starving the gut from

pathogenic food (sugar.)

> And where do you get the notion that VCO (or any

> fat/oil is " easy " on the digestion?

VCO is notoriously easy on digestion, at least compared to the other

fats. Also, I don't have any problem digestion it, far as I can see.

Unlike, well, most other food.

> First this is in no way a Fast (where are you ?!) and

> second... where do I start? The whole reason I brought up a

> cleansing diet was to, well, cleanse. What you've written here is a

> menu for a family of four.

Of course it would be a fast. Besides, you suggested a 3-day fast

with bone broths and I'm telling you right now quite emphatically that

I digest VCO better than bone broths. I don't know why but that seems

to be my experience. It appears to me that it would be much easier to

process MCTs than proteins, especially if one might be hypochloridic.

I'm proposing a 2-week fast that gradually goes from a strict fast to

one with more food elements added. A free amino acid complex isn't

going to require digestion, adding it for the second half of the first

week shouldn't decrease the " fasting " element too much, and will give

me an opportunity to possibly rebuild some of my hurt glands and

whatever else while digestion isn't an issue.

> The fermented coconut water sounds great. Do it alone for three days

> with maybe a tablespoon/day of oil or fat (max!) and REST and drink

> a lot of water and just let your body find its center again. Deep

> breathing is very good.

>

> And where on earth did the Goatein come from? On my best days I

> can't imagine eating that stuff. Whey is about the last thing I'd

> eat on or near a fast; I thought you were going to try to take a

> break from allergens?

Well that's a good point, it is dairy, and it might contain trace

casein. But a good whey protein is essentially casein-free and

lactose-free, so that's why the thought occurred. I was thinking of

something that would be liquid and relatively easy to digest compared

to meat.

I suppose though that there might be small amounts of casein to be

avoided. Maybe continuing with an amino acid supplement. I certainly

wouldn't go two weeks with no protein.

> [robin] Listen to yourself, Chris. I think we need to lock you up in

> a room somewhere and let your body regroup. Anybody with damage to

> their villi is going to have trouble with carbohydrates because the

> ends of the villi are scarred off and that's where they're absorbed

> into the gut. And you probably have Leaky Gut so all kinds of food

> is getting between the cell walls un " processed " . Along with

> fermentation going on in your small instestine, you have your immune

> system on call 24 hours a day to track these foreign " invaders " . If

> you run into some other health emergency your immune system is in a

> very compromised state to begin with -- nit what you want when going

> into battle.. Keep your guys prepared and at their best!

Well add in that systemic infection being generated by my root canaled tooth.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Well that's a good point, it is dairy, and it might contain trace

>casein. But a good whey protein is essentially casein-free and

>lactose-free, so that's why the thought occurred. I was thinking of

>something that would be liquid and relatively easy to digest compared

>to meat.

Actually, unless I'm grievously mistaken, Goatein contains plenty of goat

casein. It's a goat milk protein concentrate, not a whey protein isolate.

Yes, here's some of their literature:

>>GOATEIN ä IS A BALANCED COMBINATION OF WHEY PROTEIN AND MILK PROTEINS.

>>Research indicates consuming whey protein by its self can cause too rapid

>>an absorption of amino acids.

>>These amino acids are then used for energy production instead of tissue

>>building. We are convinced that a

>>combination of both whey protein and milk proteins is superior,

>>containing a much higher concentration

>>of Glutamine (20% of protein content). GOATEIN ä contains a favorable

>>ratio of Potassium to Sodium,

>>important for a leaner, less bloated look.

>

>

>

>-

[Guest guest]

On 7/27/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Actually, unless I'm grievously mistaken, Goatein contains plenty of goat

> casein. It's a goat milk protein concentrate, not a whey protein isolate.

Oh, that's right! I discussed this with Jordan Rubin two WAPF

conferences ago. Thanks for reminding me.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Actually, unless I'm grievously mistaken, Goatein contains plenty of goat

> casein. It's a goat milk protein concentrate, not a whey protein isolate.

and : Regarding Goatein we can, of course, agree to

disagree. My feeling is that has some food allergies and ANY

type of casein is a potential allergen especially when he has

repeatedly indicated that he has trouble with cow's milk. The thrust

of my original mail was to go on a cleansing/elimination diet for a

few days to help let his body achieve some sort of homostasis.. Sure,

in a regular diet if he wanted to mess around with goat and sheep's

milk he would probably be fine -- for awhile. But he's not a healthy

guy right now and I think, long-term, he'll just be adding another

allergen to the body's increasingly long list..

Remember too that I'm not talking about a maintenence diet with the

plan I suggest. I'm trying to create a sort of starting point in order

to reintroduce foods to help find out what's causing his (dangerous)

symptoms. My commenets and ideas were structural and conceptual more

than which specific foods. I think foods on a clearing type diet

should be benign, hypoallergenic, easilty digestible. The object is to

give the whole body a rest while not letting it think it is in some

sort of starvation mode... bone broth and soups work well to that end.

If you guys want products, a much better example is Thorne's MediClear

http://shop.store./spinelife/sp640.html

(BTW I checked and the vanilla & orange natural flavorings are

gluten/dairy free...)

~Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>and : Regarding Goatein we can, of course, agree to

>disagree. My feeling is that has some food allergies and ANY

>type of casein is a potential allergen especially when he has

>repeatedly indicated that he has trouble with cow's milk.

It might be instructive for to try abjuring all dairy for awhile to

see what the reintroduction of fully-fermented dairy might do, but I get

the impression that you have a dim view of Goatein regardless of one's

casein allergy status, and I'm not sure why. It's a low-temperature

protein concentrate from grass-fed goats given no hormones and no

antibiotics and whose pasture is free of herbicides and pesticides and,

IIRC, chemical fertilizers too. Since I have to eat low-carb, I make

yoghurt from a little milk and a lot of cream and then put some Goatein

into each bowl to restore some of the missing protein, and I really don't

see anything wrong with that. It's not like I'm short on vitamin A, after all.

>The object is to

>give the whole body a rest while not letting it think it is in some

>sort of starvation mode... bone broth and soups work well to that end.

Except indicated that, oddly enough, he has some problems with bone

broth.

>If you guys want products, a much better example is Thorne's MediClear

>http://shop.store./spinelife/sp640.html

>(BTW I checked and the vanilla & orange natural flavorings are

>gluten/dairy free...)

Wow, I really, really, REALLY don't agree.

>>Calories.... 180.0 Calories from fat.... 30.0 Total Fat.... 3.5g

>>Saturated Fat.... 1.5g Cholesterol.... Total Carbohydrate.... 12.0g

>>Sugars.... 3.0g Dietary Fiber.... 5.0g Protein.... 26.0g .... Other

>>Ingredients:.... Rice protein.... Pure cane molasses.... Olive oil....

>>SlimSweet (Lo Han fruit extract).... Natural vanilla and orange flavoring....

It's rice protein, for starters, which is a crummy protein which isn't

remotely complete. Then you add the fact that it has a good deal of fat

but, being vegetable in origin, only a very small part of it is saturated,

and it looks even worse. Furthermore, a serving has 12 grams of sugar, and

molasses is one of the " other ingredients " . Also, SlimSweet is basically

levulose, which is not an easily digestible sugar (it's an SCD no-no) and

the SlimSweet people recently had to change their labeling to reflect the

fact that 1g of SlimSweet has 0.98g of sugar.

Contrast that with Goatein's ingredients:

>>Ingredients: Goat's milk protein concentrate, pre-digested goat's milk

>>protein concentrate containing a proprietary probiotic blend, natural vanilla.

They assure me that the natural vanilla is just a dilute extract, not an

artificial flavor, so I'm not worried about it.

-

[Guest guest]

> >[robin] The object is to

> >give the whole body a rest while not letting it think it is in

> >some

> >sort of starvation mode... bone broth and soups work well to that

> >end.

>

> [paul]Except indicated that, oddly enough, he has some

> problems with bone

> broth.

>

> >[robin]If you guys want products, a much better example is

> >Thorne's MediClear

> >http://shop.store./spinelife/sp640.html

> >(BTW I checked and the vanilla & orange natural flavorings are

> >gluten/dairy free...)

>

> [paul]Wow, I really, really, REALLY don't agree.

>

> >>Calories.... 180.0 Calories from fat.... 30.0 Total Fat.... 3.5g

> >>Saturated Fat.... 1.5g Cholesterol.... Total Carbohydrate....

> >>12.0g

> >>Sugars.... 3.0g Dietary Fiber.... 5.0g Protein.... 26.0g ....

> >>Other

> >>Ingredients:.... Rice protein.... Pure cane molasses.... Olive

> >>oil....

> >>SlimSweet (Lo Han fruit extract).... Natural vanilla and orange

> >>flavoring....

>

> It's rice protein, for starters, which is a crummy protein which

>isn't

> remotely complete. Then you add the fact that it has a good deal

>of fat

> but, being vegetable in origin, only a very small part of it is

>saturated,

> and it looks even worse. Furthermore, a serving has 12 grams of

>sugar, and

> molasses is one of the " other ingredients " . Also, SlimSweet is

>basically

> levulose, which is not an easily digestible sugar (it's an SCD no-

>no) and

> the SlimSweet people recently had to change their labeling to

>reflect the

> fact that 1g of SlimSweet has 0.98g of sugar.

>

> Contrast that with Goatein's ingredients:

>

> >>Ingredients: Goat's milk protein concentrate, pre-digested

> goat's milk

> >>protein concentrate containing a proprietary probiotic blend,

>natural vanilla.

>

> They assure me that the natural vanilla is just a dilute extract,

>not an

> artificial flavor, so I'm not worried about it.

>

> > -

[robin] You're right, . The Goatein looks a lot better so I

withdraw my alarmed comment (and you're also right that I have an

inordinate (and unexplainable, really,) dislike of Jordan Rubin and

his products. I obviously can't do milk and so that's an easy one

for me -- I just can't drink Goatein -- I used to drink it but it

was one of the things that bothered me (before I knew that my IgE

milk allergry applied even to this sort of thing.)

The product I mentioned, MediClear, while containing some silly

sugars, contains a lot of the vitamin/mineral/amino-acid complex

stuff I need in, yes, a rice protein base. I use it because I need

something I could put the powder in a jar and keep it in the car or

in the car or in a bag and be able to just add water to get an

instant meal of sorts. Any pre-made bars are ridiculous and so this

is my emergency food. Since I can eat no dairy or grains I'm pretty

limited and so anything I look at will have to have something

inferior to milk protein as its base. Mediclear looked to be the

laest harmful of this sort of thing. I recommended it to not

because of the protein content but because of the balance of other

nutrients in a highly unallergic form. My thinking is, of course,

that Chris' symptoms are due in large part to allergies.

~Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>(and you're also right that I have an

>inordinate (and unexplainable, really,) dislike of Jordan Rubin and

>his products.

I'm not fond of his many of his products or some of his nutritional

philosophy and I think a lot of his marketing is absurd, but unless the

company is lying about it, Goatein seems like an excellent protein concentrate.

>The product I mentioned, MediClear, while containing some silly

>sugars, contains a lot of the vitamin/mineral/amino-acid complex

>stuff I need in, yes, a rice protein base. I use it because I need

>something I could put the powder in a jar and keep it in the car or

>in the car or in a bag and be able to just add water to get an

>instant meal of sorts.

What about jerky? Or something made with almond flour? That product is

just awful, and I really recommend you reconsider its use. Levulose is not

friendly to the gut.

-