Re: Health Issues Rebuttal (Long)

[Guest guest]

>Oh please don't say there's NO point! After all, we can't make

>everything better at once. I agree that you should address those

>other issues, but a good diet certainly can't hurt while you're

>working on the other stuff. Stress and family problems, for

>instance, may be difficult, impossible, or take a LONG time to

>fix.

>Aven

OK, I'll rebut that one ... my life for the past 3 years has had

more MAJOR trauma than ever. Life/death kind of things.

Lack of sleep. You name it ... things I would think would land

us in the loony bin or at least divorce court. And mind you

I have a history of major depression. But something nasty

happens and ... we say " hmm. Bad stuff. Gotta think about

this " and that's about it.

One of the things that the " Western " folks have noted over

and over in in dealing with " primative races " is that they " are so happy! " .

I see it in lots of books ... there will be a tribe of natives carrying

a canoe over the mountains for the white folks. They stumble and

fall ... and everyone laughs (except the white folks, who are freaked

out). I'm totally convinced that if the health issues are addressed,

our brains are totally able to handle a LOT of stress.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

--- In , Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...>

wrote:

>

> >Oh please don't say there's NO point! After all, we can't make

> >everything better at once. I agree that you should address those

> >other issues, but a good diet certainly can't hurt while you're

> >working on the other stuff. Stress and family problems, for

> >instance, may be difficult, impossible, or take a LONG time to

> >fix.

> >Aven

>

> OK, I'll rebut that one ... my life for the past 3 years has had

> more MAJOR trauma than ever. Life/death kind of things.

> Lack of sleep. You name it ... things I would think would land

> us in the loony bin or at least divorce court. And mind you

> I have a history of major depression. But something nasty

> happens and ... we say " hmm. Bad stuff. Gotta think about

> this " and that's about it.

Heidi

>

> One of the things that the " Western " folks have noted over

> and over in in dealing with " primative races " is that they " are so happy! " .

> I see it in lots of books ... there will be a tribe of natives carrying

> a canoe over the mountains for the white folks. They stumble and

> fall ... and everyone laughs (except the white folks, who are freaked

> out). I'm totally convinced that if the health issues are addressed,

> our brains are totally able to handle a LOT of stress.

> Heidi

I've found my outlook on my problems is totally different when

I'm well-nourished, and I have the energy to deal with problems.

Problems engender a lot more stress when you're too tired to

do anything about them - the feeling of helplessness and

frustration is horrible. If you have good energy and good mood,

you just do what needs to be done. I remember being told that

I needed to get the stress out of my life NOW - which was

impossible, and the demand only added more stress. If I'd only

known then what I know now....

Aven

>

> Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Catz-

>here's a real instance... I do not have this email from that

>you quoted from. Anyone else?

You'll most likely get it eventually, but that's (and email

generally) for you, I'm afraid. We may not be stuck with this level of

service forever, but upgrades and replacements and so on are somewhat off

into the future.

-

[Guest guest]

Aven-

>It may be that siblings are the least convincing people on the

>planet, for emotional reasons. I'm pretty sure my sister resists

>every single suggestion I make just because it's coming from me.

That's a really good point. The emotional baggage that siblings (and

sometimes other family members) have sometimes makes it MUCH more difficult.

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[Guest guest]

Darrell-

>I prefer free-range penguin eggs a source of beneficial fats. Also, penguin

>eggs yolks are not artificially colored.

If you're being serious (though I can't imagine where you'd be getting any)

I'd assume the fat in penguin eggs would tend to be much more

polyunsaturated due to their native climate, which might not be a good

thing, at least in quantity.

-

[Guest guest]

I'll throw in my perspective as a dog breeder. I have the advantage of

having TOTAL control over my dogs' lifestyles, from the air they breathe to

the food they eat to how much exercise they get. In addition, in the 19+

years I have been naturally rearing my dogs, on a raw meat-based homemade

diet, I have seen several generations be conceived, born, grow old, and in

the case of the oldest two generations, die, due to the shorter lifespan of

the dog.

There is absolutely no question at this point that my dogs are living longer

than their littermates raised by other people and being fed primarily

commercial diets and getting conventional veterinary care. My dogs appear to

be significantly more disease-resistant than their littermates raised

differently, as well. I have had better reproductive health in my dogs, as

well.

But I've also seen that genetics play a strong role in the health of my

dogs. I have produced dogs with a genetic kidney defect, canine cystinuria.

And most distressing to me, my dogs seem to get degenerative arthritis-type

conditions, very distinctively the same in symptom picture and at the same

ages as their littermates and other close relatives. This is probably

" genetic " to some extent, but what I suspect is it's a breed problem,

perhaps related to their extreme physical conformation (long necks, long

slender legs) and lifestyle (some of these dogs are serious competitive

athletes and others, while not competitive in the field, still " played " as

if they were, running, falling, and slamming into each other from puppyhood

on). Nonetheless, I have had no luck at all staving this off, and since my

dogs outlive other dogs of their lines, I have seen them become MORE

uncomfortable or even what you'd call decrepit as they approach extreme old

age.

As an example of what I'm getting with lifespan, let me tell you the average

age of death in this breed is 8 and a half for males and 9 for females, and

of the last two generations of dogs who died, the females were 12 and the

males, 11 and a half. Excluding two dogs who died of non-age related causes

(one in an accident at 8 and a half and one at four of an acute kidney

infection that we were unable to cure despite going so far as taking him to

UC for dialysis), I have NEVER had a deerhound male die younger than

10 and a half nor female younger than 12. With the exception of one dog who

required two surgeries for his genetic kidney defect, none of these dogs has

needed any kind of herioc measures or interventions to achieve these

lifespans.

I would say that certain things, such as disease resistance and stamina, are

highly influenceable by husbandry (diet, vet care, lifestyle), while others,

such as the expression of genuine genetic defects, are completely out of my

control with husbandry. And it also appears to be very hard to overcome

certain predispositions in the breed/lines such as degenerative joint

disease, although for me, the jury is still out on that as far as extent

goes.

If anyone is interested in reading more about my 19+ years in holistically

raising my dogs, my website is at www.caberfeidh.com.

Christie

[Guest guest]

> He

> and I both have our views, but he has all the ammo what with all his

> text books. And I have Weston A Price and the like LOL. I really

> don't have the inclination to seriously debate with him anyway, as he

> will have the last word - cause he's got the education and I don't.

> Or at least that's the impression that I'm getting from him.

>

Rhonda,

Maybe a better way of looking at this other than education dogma outdoing

you, is that you have human historical and present reality and fact of the

increase of degenerative disease with modern diet and your own health

improvements. The best healers, heal themselves first.

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

Christie-

>But I've also seen that genetics play a strong role in the health of my

>dogs. I have produced dogs with a genetic kidney defect, canine cystinuria.

>And most distressing to me, my dogs seem to get degenerative arthritis-type

>conditions, very distinctively the same in symptom picture and at the same

>ages as their littermates and other close relatives.

I'm sure you've already thought about this, but have you considered that

despite being excellent, raw and meat-based, the diet you're feeding your

dogs may still be deficient in some way relative to a theoretical optimum

diet? Could your dogs need more organ meats or more of a particular

organ? Perhaps because of their activity levels they have an unusually

large need for some particular nutrient that simply can't be satisfied

without either supplementation or an unusual amount of organ X being in

their food?

Just spit-balling a couple ideas that I'm sure you've already considered at

length.

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