RE: how long til food poisoning manifests?

[Guest guest]

In my kitchen experiments I sometimes worry I will get sick and test food

before letting my family eat it. The latest experiment was cold smoking a

turkey. It never got very hot and was going a l..o..n..g time, like almost

24 hours.

I'm worried about bad bacteria. I ate some of the turkey five hours ago

(quite yummy) and am still ok. Are we in the clear? PS: I also soaked it in

brine 24 hours before smoking.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

>I'm worried about bad bacteria. I ate some of the turkey five hours ago

>(quite yummy) and am still ok. Are we in the clear? PS: I also soaked it in

>brine 24 hours before smoking.

>Elaine

Anything that is reasonably salty tends not to grow the really bad bacteria.

I think the cutoff is something like 10% salt. The botulism etc. happens in

unsalted food, esp. if there is no acid. If you are unsure about a food,

salt it and add some acidic stuff before leaving it at warm temps. When

I dry jerky (which is at a good temp for growing bacteria) I soak the meat

in kimchi juice or kefir first, plus spices, so there are lots of protective

bacteria on it first.

There are two kinds of food poisoning (yeah, I think about this stuff too!).

One kind is live bacteria taking over your gut. That isn't so likely if you

have healthy gut bacteria, or take probiotics. But if you are concerned,

Pepto Bismol or Pascalite are good. And red wine. Actually I haven't had

a bout of that since going GF. Before that I had it a fair amount, usually

from restaurant food or reheated leftovers.

The second kind is botulism, which is REALLY nasty. But, it is also

very, very rare. I think 50 cases in the last few years. It tends to

happen on canned food that wasn't canned correctly, or on

beached whales that have been sitting for a couple of weeks, or

on garlic cloves stored in oil for weeks. I don't know much about

it, but from what I've read it seems to develop very slowly.

In either case, symptoms happen from 5 hours to 2 days after

exposure.

On the bright side, a lot of us fermenters have tasted some

really " iffy " stuff and with no problems. I DO try to be careful, but

after watching my chickens thrive eating all kinds of garbage, I'm

convinced the human organism is meant to be a little more robust ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>> The second kind is botulism, which is REALLY nasty. But, it is

also

very, very rare. I think 50 cases in the last few years. It tends to

happen on canned food that wasn't canned correctly, or on

beached whales that have been sitting for a couple of weeks, or

on garlic cloves stored in oil for weeks. I don't know much about

it, but from what I've read it seems to develop very slowly.

Heidi >>>>>>>>>

Hi Heidi, I'd like to know more about the olive oil/garlic thing: I was

keeping garlic in a glass jar full of oil in the refrigerator and then, a

couple weeks or so ago I decided that the oil would get better infused (and

the garlic would be easier to get out!) if I kept the jar at room

temperature. I figured the garlic had enough anti-bacterial qualities to

prevent any bad stuff from forming in it.

Do you know where I can learn more about it? It would be just my luck to get

botulism on top of all my other weird things this year -- my family would

simply give up on me I'm afraid... Thanks. ~Robin

[Guest guest]

> Hi Heidi, I'd like to know more about the olive oil/garlic thing:

I'm not Heidi, but here's some info from HealthCanada:

Garlic-In-Oil

The Issue

Garlic-in-oil is a popular homemade food item that can cause serious

health problems if it is not stored properly. If you make and use this

item at home, you can take steps to protect your family from the

possibility of food poisoning.

Background

Garlic-in-oil is a mixture of vegetable oil and garlic, either whole,

chopped or minced. When you make it at home and use it right away,

it's a safe product. It's also safe if you keep it refrigerated on a

continuous basis, and use it within a week.

The trouble starts if you store homemade garlic-in-oil at room

temperature, or if you keep it in the fridge for too long. These

actions could result in contamination of the product by the bacteria

spores that cause botulism.

The Link Between Homemade Garlic-in-Oil and Botulism

The bacteria spores that cause botulism - Clostridium Botulinum - are

widespread in nature, but they seldom cause problems because they

can't grow if they're exposed to oxygen. If the spores don't grow,

then they can't produce the toxins that make us sick.

However, when garlic containing the bacteria is covered with oil,

there's no oxygen present. That means conditions are ripe for the

spores to grow and produce toxins. You can slow down the growth of

bacteria (and the production of toxins) by refrigerating the product,

but this may not be enough to stop it from spoiling.

What's worse is that there won't be any obvious signs that the

garlic-in-oil is spoiled. You won't be able to tell if it's dangerous,

because it will still look, smell and taste the same.

If you eat garlic-in-oil that contains the toxins, you can get

botulism - a potentially fatal food poisoning that may cause the

following symptoms:

* Dizziness

* Blurred or double vision

* Difficulty in swallowing, breathing and speaking

* Paralysis that gets worse with time

Commercially Prepared Garlic-in-Oil

Commercially produced garlic-in-oil products have been linked to two

outbreaks of botulism; one in Vancouver in 1985 and the other in New

York in 1989.

In both outbreaks, people became seriously ill after eating something

made with non-preserved garlic-in-oil that had not been stored at the

proper temperature.

Since then, the commercial manufacturers of garlic-in-oil have adopted

better preservation techniques to keep their products free of the

toxins that cause botulism.

Check the label on commercially prepared garlic-in-oil products for

sale. If salt or acids are in the list of ingredients, the product has

been preserved. You don't need to worry about food poisoning as long

as you follow directions for storing the product.

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>> Check the label on commercially prepared garlic-in-oil products

for

sale. If salt or acids are in the list of ingredients, the product has

been preserved. You don't need to worry about food poisoning as long

as you follow directions for storing the product. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sounds like adding salt (and maybe some lactic acid?) to one's homemade

garlic-oil would help a lot (as usual!) Thanks! ~Robin

[Guest guest]

>Hi Heidi, I'd like to know more about the olive oil/garlic thing: I was

>keeping garlic in a glass jar full of oil in the refrigerator and then, a

>couple weeks or so ago I decided that the oil would get better infused (and

>the garlic would be easier to get out!) if I kept the jar at room

>temperature. I figured the garlic had enough anti-bacterial qualities to

>prevent any bad stuff from forming in it.

>

>Do you know where I can learn more about it? It would be just my luck to get

>botulism on top of all my other weird things this year -- my family would

>simply give up on me I'm afraid... Thanks. ~Robin

Google on " botulism garlic oil " and you'll get more than you ever

wanted to know! Basically the antibiotic properties are what make

it dangerous: it kills off the competing bacteria so botulism can

grow. Botulism bacteria don't do well with any competition,

just where MOST of the other bacteria have been killed off.

DO NOT eat garlic cloves in oil! Room temp or otherwise!

I infuse garlic cloves in vinegar, which makes great vinegar. I also

crush garlic cloves into oil for a salad I eat that day.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Sounds like adding salt (and maybe some lactic acid?) to one's homemade

>garlic-oil would help a lot (as usual!) Thanks! ~Robin

You can't just add salt to the oil though. The cloves have to be soaked in

salt brine until they are full of salt. Better would be salt+vinegar or a lactic

ferment.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>>> You can't just add salt to the oil though. The cloves have to be

soaked in

salt brine until they are full of salt. Better would be salt+vinegar or a

lactic

ferment.

Heidi >>>>>>>>>

Thank you! I'm just going to stick to preserving any extra garlic I get with

the kraut and kim chee

By the way, I tried an early sample of the Kim Chee I made a month ago that

had all the wild roots in it (Galangal, burdock and so on) and it came out

really well. My dh loves it so much that he's worried that at the rate we're

going through it, even the other 10L crock full of same that's continuing to

ferment in the wine cellar, won't be enough.. For my birthday, he's ordered

a 15L Harsch crock. He says he'll do all the chopping and we'll keep it in

the wine cellar.

~Robin

[Guest guest]

At 11:56 AM 4/20/05 -0700, you wrote:

>He says he'll do all the chopping

Hey Robin?

Can I borrow him? For maybe just a month or so? Say, in ... August?

No, make that September.

Pretty please?

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>He says he'll do all the chopping [Robin}

>>Hey Robin?

>>Can I borrow him? For maybe just a month or so? Say, in ... August?

>>No, make that September.

>>Pretty please? [MFJ]

:-) He only works if there's some " important " sports event on. This weekend

it's one of his " holy days " as the NFL draft is on. Since his beloved 49ers

get " first pick " , he's All Over It and will watch the entire thing I'm

sure...

I just hope the 15L crock gets here by then!

~Robin

[Guest guest]

At 01:19 PM 4/20/05 -0700, you wrote:

>:-) He only works if there's some " important " sports event on. This weekend

>it's one of his " holy days " as the NFL draft is on. Since his beloved 49ers

>get " first pick " , he's All Over It and will watch the entire thing I'm

>sure...

>

>I just hope the 15L crock gets here by then!

>~Robin

Okay, so then can I have him for, say, October football? LOL.

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.