Re: Addiction..WAS: I've got a problemDenisa

[Guest guest]

I guess I wanted to share. Let you all know where I'm coming from

with pain

and pain meds.

Denisa

Atleast you are honest about your problems being your own and

don't demonize all medicine for people without addiction problems.

This is the problem that I see in our society, blanket statements

being applied to everyone. Those medicines you mentioned that you do

not take are very good medicines for many people.

Another problem I see alot of in addicts and formerly addicted people

(and the doctors who treat them) is the belief that if you need a

medication for relief of symptoms on an ongoing basis that that is

addiction. Also that tolerance is synonymous with addiction. Neither

is true! MY doctor told me one day that I was NOT addicted to my pain

medication BUT that I could " develop " an addiction. That is an

assumption heaped upon me by a profession that has seen alot of

people come through who have had addiction problems.

You have more of a challenge because of your history but one

problem that may arise is that some doctors will see this as the

medicine being a potential problem for ALL their patients. This is

part of the legacy that addictive behaviors leave, they do not only

hurt the person doing this to themselves it hurts innocent bystanders

like chronic pain patients who have no problem with addiction.

I had a conversation with a woman who is trying to get the

supplement industry regulated by the FDA and DEA. She cited a young

boy who took ephedrine over the counter to get high and he died. He

took atleast 3 times the maximum dosage for his weight because

someoen told him it would make him feel good or 'get high'. He was 15

years old and I'm sure he could read the back of the package. So, he

chose to take the pills in spite of warnings that taking them in the

manner that he did might kill him. He made a decision. He was not

taking it for any therapeutic purpose, many people take it for

asthma. His problem is NOT the substance it was a problem within

him. I have a problem with people citing a substance as the problem

when it is their behavior with any substances that is the real

problem.

The majority of people who take their meds as directed, who do

not have a history of substance abuse do not have a problem. Be

careful about defining problems for yourself also that do not exist.

Don't assume that you are having a problem with a pain med because

you take it to relieve pain. That is it's intended purpose and you

aren't doing anything to harm yourself.

If you feel good, that is because it feels GOOD NOT to be in physical

pain! That is the goal of the medicine, to RELIEVE unrelenting

agonizing pain. That is not the same when it comes to abusing a

medicine or any substance. This is not the definition of abuse. In

your field you have chosen to focus on addiction; You see people

every day who do have problems this way and you know what it is for

yourself. I guess what I'm saying is, you may need to rethink your

views and see how they may harm you, yourself in the future. I would

hate to see you go without effective relief if you ever need to use

one of those meds because of your history. There is no need for

anyone to suffer so needlessly. I have a friend who is 89 years old

the other day she told me her doctor reduced her already low dose of

codeine because he doesn't want her to be addicted!!She has taken

theh same low dose for years and never had an addiction problem.

Need I say more?

[Guest guest]

I guess I wanted to share. Let you all know where I'm coming from

with pain

and pain meds.

Denisa

Atleast you are honest about your problems being your own and

don't demonize all medicine for people without addiction problems.

This is the problem that I see in our society, blanket statements

being applied to everyone. Those medicines you mentioned that you do

not take are very good medicines for many people.

Another problem I see alot of in addicts and formerly addicted people

(and the doctors who treat them) is the belief that if you need a

medication for relief of symptoms on an ongoing basis that that is

addiction. Also that tolerance is synonymous with addiction. Neither

is true! MY doctor told me one day that I was NOT addicted to my pain

medication BUT that I could " develop " an addiction. That is an

assumption heaped upon me by a profession that has seen alot of

people come through who have had addiction problems.

You have more of a challenge because of your history but one

problem that may arise is that some doctors will see this as the

medicine being a potential problem for ALL their patients. This is

part of the legacy that addictive behaviors leave, they do not only

hurt the person doing this to themselves it hurts innocent bystanders

like chronic pain patients who have no problem with addiction.

I had a conversation with a woman who is trying to get the

supplement industry regulated by the FDA and DEA. She cited a young

boy who took ephedrine over the counter to get high and he died. He

took atleast 3 times the maximum dosage for his weight because

someoen told him it would make him feel good or 'get high'. He was 15

years old and I'm sure he could read the back of the package. So, he

chose to take the pills in spite of warnings that taking them in the

manner that he did might kill him. He made a decision. He was not

taking it for any therapeutic purpose, many people take it for

asthma. His problem is NOT the substance it was a problem within

him. I have a problem with people citing a substance as the problem

when it is their behavior with any substances that is the real

problem.

The majority of people who take their meds as directed, who do

not have a history of substance abuse do not have a problem. Be

careful about defining problems for yourself also that do not exist.

Don't assume that you are having a problem with a pain med because

you take it to relieve pain. That is it's intended purpose and you

aren't doing anything to harm yourself.

If you feel good, that is because it feels GOOD NOT to be in physical

pain! That is the goal of the medicine, to RELIEVE unrelenting

agonizing pain. That is not the same when it comes to abusing a

medicine or any substance. This is not the definition of abuse. In

your field you have chosen to focus on addiction; You see people

every day who do have problems this way and you know what it is for

yourself. I guess what I'm saying is, you may need to rethink your

views and see how they may harm you, yourself in the future. I would

hate to see you go without effective relief if you ever need to use

one of those meds because of your history. There is no need for

anyone to suffer so needlessly. I have a friend who is 89 years old

the other day she told me her doctor reduced her already low dose of

codeine because he doesn't want her to be addicted!!She has taken

theh same low dose for years and never had an addiction problem.

Need I say more?

[Guest guest]

I agree with you.

I haven't hesitated in the past to take *stronger meds*. I have had 3

corrective surgeries for my cerebral palsy since I have been in recovery. When

that happened, I was with my ex husband who was also in recovery and a RN. He

knew *downers* were my favorites when I was actively using. He held onto the

meds and gave them to me PRN. If he was going to be at work, he'd leave the

amount I *might* need when he was gone.

I live alone now. If the need arises, I'll work something out with my current

boyfriend to do the same. I know that if I have that issue, a bottle of pills

in my closet, my brain will go into overdrive. The bottle will be calling me.

I live 90 minutes from where Alcoholic's Anonymous was founded (Akron, Ohio).

There are a lot of *hard core* AA's up here. The old-timers sometimes believe

if we put ANY mood altering drug in our system, we are not sober. Attitudes are

changing as those old-timers die off. The younger generation believes by all

means if we *need* them, take them. I stay close to my 12 step friends and

sponsor and let them know when I take one. It averages out to maybe once every

two weeks that I need a Phrenelin. I can usually manage the cyst pain with

being quiet, sleep or just time. But occasionally.....

When I was in college, we were told that many Med Schools only give their

students about 2 hours of addiction training. I had a doctor a few years ago

who was rare. She was also a licensed addictions counselor (same credentials I

have) but she has retired

Well, I've rambled on long enough......

Denisa

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[Guest guest]

I agree with you.

I haven't hesitated in the past to take *stronger meds*. I have had 3

corrective surgeries for my cerebral palsy since I have been in recovery. When

that happened, I was with my ex husband who was also in recovery and a RN. He

knew *downers* were my favorites when I was actively using. He held onto the

meds and gave them to me PRN. If he was going to be at work, he'd leave the

amount I *might* need when he was gone.

I live alone now. If the need arises, I'll work something out with my current

boyfriend to do the same. I know that if I have that issue, a bottle of pills

in my closet, my brain will go into overdrive. The bottle will be calling me.

I live 90 minutes from where Alcoholic's Anonymous was founded (Akron, Ohio).

There are a lot of *hard core* AA's up here. The old-timers sometimes believe

if we put ANY mood altering drug in our system, we are not sober. Attitudes are

changing as those old-timers die off. The younger generation believes by all

means if we *need* them, take them. I stay close to my 12 step friends and

sponsor and let them know when I take one. It averages out to maybe once every

two weeks that I need a Phrenelin. I can usually manage the cyst pain with

being quiet, sleep or just time. But occasionally.....

When I was in college, we were told that many Med Schools only give their

students about 2 hours of addiction training. I had a doctor a few years ago

who was rare. She was also a licensed addictions counselor (same credentials I

have) but she has retired

Well, I've rambled on long enough......

Denisa

-----

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[Guest guest]

The younger generation believes by all

means if we *need* them, take them. I stay close to my 12 step

friends and

sponsor and let them know when I take one. It averages out to maybe

once every

two weeks that I need a Phrenelin. I can usually manage the cyst pain

with

being quiet, sleep or just time. But occasionally.....

Again I just want to stress Denisa that if you are feeling you have

to tell someone who has had an addiction problem each time you take a

pill for pain, you may be compounding the fact that it is a " problem "

substance. I don't tell anyone each time I take a pill. Why should I?

Why should you feel guilty in ANY way to take pain medicine? You are

not the you who abused for no good reason. The problem is not the

substance! It is a mindset that may take you a life time to overcome.

I wish you relief.

[Guest guest]

It works for me and my sponsor. I will do anything, go to any length to stay

clean and sober. My sponsor keeps me in check. She can see patterns that I may

not be able to see, then call me on it. If I take one at 3AM, I don't call her

then and tell her, just the next time I see her or talk. It's not that I take

several a day..but on average of about every two weeks. Even though I have 12

years clean, I'm still an addict...always will be. Having pain meds in the

house at all times is new to me. And I live alone. I've had small Rx's for

after surgery, but not a constant supply. Maybe in the future I won't feel the

need to tell Margo, but for now it works for me. I'm still clean and sober.

And yes, I don't have a drinking/drug problem today. I have a THINKING problem.

I agree there.

Re: Addiction..WAS: I've got a problemDenisa

The younger generation believes by all

means if we *need* them, take them. I stay close to my 12 step

friends and

sponsor and let them know when I take one. It averages out to maybe

once every

two weeks that I need a Phrenelin. I can usually manage the cyst pain

with

being quiet, sleep or just time. But occasionally.....

Again I just want to stress Denisa that if you are feeling you have

to tell someone who has had an addiction problem each time you take a

pill for pain, you may be compounding the fact that it is a " problem "

substance. I don't tell anyone each time I take a pill. Why should I?

Why should you feel guilty in ANY way to take pain medicine? You are

not the you who abused for no good reason. The problem is not the

substance! It is a mindset that may take you a life time to overcome.

I wish you relief.

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[Guest guest]

If every addict that existed were also to become a chronic pain

patient, they would mourn their history of misuse of legitimate pain

meds that they wasted their lives on. I know it is not an enviable

position you are in having to justify your need for meds. But it is

far less enviable to be a chronic pain patient with no history of

abuse suffering under assumptions that someone elses behavior placed

there in the first place.

If recreational drugs were legal, would any of this change?

The general public does not NEED their hands on medication intended

for pain patients, and at the same time SOME currently illegal

recreational drugs may have medical purposes and others have none.

Cocaine was used as an anesthetic during surgery but was never

intended for 'recreational' use. Cigarettes/nicotine is a poison and

a drug that has no clinical application but causes much harm and it

is perfectly legal.

Alchohol has funded studies that claim benefits recntly revealed

(heart health! alzheimers prevention!) when used in moderation and

not misused and it's perfectly legal. Caffeine is a drug and readily

available. Again the issues lay within the individual. Views also

have to do with what society has accepted as ok.

I happen to know (we had a related accident in our high school) that

some people in this world abuse LYSOL containers by using it to

get 'high' and some have died from it. Should a recovering lysol

abuser call someone each time they clean their house? Have you heard

of 'whippits' using whipped cream containers? If someone has a

problem they can get very creative with what they choose to use for

entertainment. I remember a kid in school sniffing markers...should

glue markers and whipped cream be illegal? Is that their 'intended'

purpose? Do you get my point, it's that the problem is with a

behavior in the person. It isn't the substance.

I have issue with people with a history of addiction problems placing

my medication in a category that it unfairly deserves simply because

they have a personal problem with their behavior.

If I were raped, would I hold all men with their genitals

responsible? Are genitals the problem, are men the problem or is it

the behavior that is a problem? Do you get my point? It isn't that I

don't have compassion for people with substance abuse problems. It's

that I have no tolerance for dwelling on an issue that has nothing to

do with chronic pain, really, at all. I have suffered enough, my

doctor has suffered enough and there are many more people who will

suffer needlessly because of the stigma attached to a clinically and

medically useful line of medications.

[Guest guest]

I regret sharing that I'm an addict with this list. What works for me is all

that's important. I'm not saying everyone who is recovery do as I do. It works

for ME. And that is all that's important.

Re: Addiction..WAS: I've got a problemDenisa

If every addict that existed were also to become a chronic pain

patient, they would mourn their history of misuse of legitimate pain

meds that they wasted their lives on. I know it is not an enviable

position you are in having to justify your need for meds. But it is

far less enviable to be a chronic pain patient with no history of

abuse suffering under assumptions that someone elses behavior placed

there in the first place.

If recreational drugs were legal, would any of this change?

The general public does not NEED their hands on medication intended

for pain patients, and at the same time SOME currently illegal

recreational drugs may have medical purposes and others have none.

Cocaine was used as an anesthetic during surgery but was never

intended for 'recreational' use. Cigarettes/nicotine is a poison and

a drug that has no clinical application but causes much harm and it

is perfectly legal.

Alchohol has funded studies that claim benefits recntly revealed

(heart health! alzheimers prevention!) when used in moderation and

not misused and it's perfectly legal. Caffeine is a drug and readily

available. Again the issues lay within the individual. Views also

have to do with what society has accepted as ok.

I happen to know (we had a related accident in our high school) that

some people in this world abuse LYSOL containers by using it to

get 'high' and some have died from it. Should a recovering lysol

abuser call someone each time they clean their house? Have you heard

of 'whippits' using whipped cream containers? If someone has a

problem they can get very creative with what they choose to use for

entertainment. I remember a kid in school sniffing markers...should

glue markers and whipped cream be illegal? Is that their 'intended'

purpose? Do you get my point, it's that the problem is with a

behavior in the person. It isn't the substance.

I have issue with people with a history of addiction problems placing

my medication in a category that it unfairly deserves simply because

they have a personal problem with their behavior.

If I were raped, would I hold all men with their genitals

responsible? Are genitals the problem, are men the problem or is it

the behavior that is a problem? Do you get my point? It isn't that I

don't have compassion for people with substance abuse problems. It's

that I have no tolerance for dwelling on an issue that has nothing to

do with chronic pain, really, at all. I have suffered enough, my

doctor has suffered enough and there are many more people who will

suffer needlessly because of the stigma attached to a clinically and

medically useful line of medications.

[Guest guest]

You are right Denisa, what works for you is important. Please don't regret

that you shared such personal facts. We are here to listen when no one else

will. We are all different in how we approach problems and how we resolve them.

I commend you for knowing that you will always have a problem and that you need

to be prepared to deal with it.

Peggy-from CA

Denisa wrote: I regret sharing that I'm an addict with

this list. What works for me is all that's important. I'm not saying everyone

who is recovery do as I do. It works for ME. And that is all that's important.

Today is the first day of the rest of my life.......

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thank you Peggy.

Re: Addiction..WAS: I've got a problemDenisa

You are right Denisa, what works for you is important. Please don't regret

that you shared such personal facts. We are here to listen when no one else

will. We are all different in how we approach problems and how we resolve them.

I commend you for knowing that you will always have a problem and that you need

to be prepared to deal with it.

Peggy-from CA

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