RELIGION: intuition (OT) ( wasRe: dreaming and remembering)

[Guest guest]

> I read somewhere that first century Christian catacombs had images of

> the Virgin engraved above the tombs of martyrs that were used as

> altars, which I think predates the spread of Christianity to the

> Americas.

I'm not sure what you mean. I read that you are saying there are

images of La Virgen de Guadalupe in first century Christian catacombs

somewhere? In Europe, I presume? Meaning what--she had appeared

previously? Or further evidence the incident was made up by the

church administration to complete the conquest and Diego never

existed?

AFAIK her first appearance was in 1531 in what is now Mexico City.

She was a brown-skinned, green-robed aspect of Virgin who

appeared--speaking Nahuatl--to a humble local in 1531. The church

fathers had prayed for a miracle of God to convert the resistant

native people.

<Googles a bit...>

A-ha, now I see what you're saying:

http://www.vdare.com/awall/quadelupe.htm

" (My own view is that the Mexican Virgin of Guadalupe cult was

transported from Spain in the 1500s. After all, there is a Virgin of

Guadalupe in Spain, which predates that of Mexico by centuries. Both

the Spanish and the Mexican Virgins of Guadalupe are dark-skinned and

the stories are similar—in Spain the Virgin was said to appear to

Spanish cowboy Gil Cordero, in Mexico to Diego. It seems to me

that the Spanish Virgin of Guadalupe became the Mexican Virgin of

Guadalupe, Gil Cordero being transformed to Diego. Also, it's

relevant to note that Tepeyac Hill was a center for the pagan worship

of Tonantzin, pre-Hispanic earth mother goddess.) "

I guess this might be to what you're referring, but doesn't sound like

first century...first century Spanish cowboy? Why not?

Look, here's another explanation for how she came to be called

" Guadalupe " :

http://www.cancunsteve.com/guadalupe.htm

" Why should the Virgin appearing to an Indian in recently

conquered Mexico and speaking to him in Nahuatl call herself " of

Guadalupe " , a Spanish name? Did she want to be called de Guadalupe

because of the statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Estremadura, Spain?

Because of Lupita who lived in Nuevo Laredo? In all apparitions of

the Blessed Virgin she identified herself as the Virgin and

phrases like Mother of God or another of her titles, and was later

usually known by the name of the place or region where she appeared

(Lourdes, Fatima). So why should , when appearing to an Indian in

recently invaded Mexico and speaking in the local language, want to be

named with the Spanish name of Guadalupe? Was she talking about the

miraculous statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe, that was given by Pope

the Great to the Bishop of Seville, was lost for 600 years and

was found in 1326 by a cowherd guided by an apparition of Our Lady?

The statue was named Guadalupe for the village located near the place

of discovery. The origin of the name Guadalupe has always been a

matter of controversy. It is nevertheless believed that the name came

about because of the translation from Nahuatl to Spanish of the words

used by the Virgin during the apparition to the ailing uncle of

Diego. It is believed that Our Lady used the Aztec Nahuatl word of

coatlaxopeuh which is pronounced " quatlasupe " and sounds remarkably

like the Spanish word Guadalupe. Coa meaning serpent, tla being the

noun ending which can be interpreted as " the " , while xopeuh means to

crush or stamp out. So Our Lady must have called herself the one " who

crushes the serpent1. " Serpent-god Quetzalcoatl. Certainly, in this

case She crushed the serpent, and few years later millions of the

natives were converted to Christianity. "

Very interesting. What I know about La Virgencita was informed by the

Mexican and Chicano members of a theatre company I toured with

once-upon-a-time. Guess which part I played, heh.

B.