Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Dana, is that FT3 number correct? If so, I agree with her. > > Hi everyone, > > I'm pretty new to this group and when I joined I was in need of a > new doc. I got the recommendation to see Dr. R in Lubbock but > thought that the drive was too much for me at this time (about 5 > hours) so I visited a new doc in Mesquite. Mesquite is quite a > drive for me too but it's about half as far as to Lubbock from > ville. Anyway, this new doc's name is Bessie Owens and I > think she's quite personable and so is her office staff. I've had > an initial appointment with her and she spent quite a long time with > my son and me. My 15 year old son is also hypo and we went > together. Our appointment time was 1pm and we didn't get out of > there until about 4:30. We didn't wait around to be seen unlike > some of the other doctor's I've seen in the past. > > Dr. Owens seems to be very knowledgeable about treating the thyroid, > adrenals and hormone issues but as far as I'm concerned the jury's > still out. I'm concerned about a few things and worry because she > immediately started changing my medications. I told her that I was > feeling pretty good with my current treatment and I didn't want her > to make any changes. (My last Dr. passed away so I had to find > someone else.) Dr. Owens didn't like that my TSH was <.01 (range > 0.3-5.1) and my Free T3's were 9.3 (range 2.3-4.2). Personally, I > don't care what my labs say. I feel that the most important thing > is how I feel and how well I'm able to function. Dr. Owens agreed > but she didn't want my levels to be so far out of range. She said > two things to me that I'm not sure about and I doubt if I have her > exact words. 1) She felt that if I'm overmedicated, my symptoms > could be similar to my symptoms when I'm under medicated. I find > that weird. Also 2) she wanted to remain within recognized limits > and it seemed like she was worried about being disciplined. She > explained it rather well though; she said that she wants to be able > to help people so it wouldn't be good for her patients if she was > suspended like I saw with my last Dr. She's kind of walking a fine > line. I was alarmed when I thought she was going to allow my levels > like TSH to rise to a 1 or 2. She told me that she wouldn't have my > TSH go above a 0.2. It would keep both of us out of trouble. > > She didn't make any drastic changes to my medications so I was happy > with that. She took it very slow and reduced me by only two dosages > a week on my Armour and dropped my cortisone by 50mg every three > weeks from 250mg to 150mg. After being on the 150mg level for about > a week things started changing for the worse. I started to shake > and it seemed like the old anxiety/panic attack symptoms were coming > back. I called her office about it and was told to come in. They > didn't recommend anything to me over the phone. I was upset about > that but since I'm a new patient; I guess that would be natural. > Initially, I thought about raising my medications back to their > original levels on my own but decided to see if my body would make > an adjustment to the lower cortisone levels while I'm waiting for my > next appointment. Another problem I've noticed is that I can't seem > to sleep which is highly unusual for me. Before my thyroid was > treated, I regularly slept 20 hours a day or more. Now I can't seem > to get to sleep and when I do, I'm sleeping anywhere from 5-9 > hours. Strange. > > Finally, Dr. Owens is hypothyroid herself so she has a personal > knowledge of this illness. She also has been treated and no longer > requires any medication. I didn't think that was an option. I > thought that thyroid medication would be for the rest of my life. > It would be great to hope but I wonder if Dr. Owens was the > exception to the rule. Will she have unrealistic expectations from > me by expecting my body to completely heal? I would love to ditch > all my medications but I never want to go back to the way I was. > > Dr. Owens is a D.O. She uses alternative methods and prescribes bio- > identical hormones from 's pharmacy in Beeville. She has > worked with them for a long time and feels comfortable with them. > She tells me that their prices are more reasonable. She offers a > line of supplements in her office but she doesn't push them. The > supplements she recommended were also available in local stores and > she gave me the choice. I don't like doctors marketing > supplements. Dr. Owens office staff was very helpful in giving me > directions and advising me on finding the best prices among the > other businesses. > > I had blood work done during my first visit and the nurse called me > with the results and recommendations from the Dr. They wouldn't > mail me a copy of my labs but they said I could pick them up from > the office. I don't like that at all because I'm not close enough > to just stop by the office. They said something about not mailing > them due to some privacy/legal issue. My last Dr.'s office asked me > to sign a release and they didn't have a problem mailing my records > or labs. > > Sorry this has been so long. I'm not sure about this new doctor > and would like to hear from anyone who has an opinion or advice. > > Thanks, > Dana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Symptoms of over and under medication can be very similar. For me, both over and undermedication result in joint pain. The skewering of Fran Rose has had a chilling effect on a lot of docs. Former Broda docs have become devout TSH-worshippers. But if you read the board orders on her, it was failure to do suitable testing and keep documentation that got her in trouble. As a new patient, you are in a bad position to have a doc cut you any slack. They may think you are a spy forTSBME. Even docs who do not blink at suppressed TSH or a Free T3 slightly over range would have a cow at the Free T3 that much over range. I would suggest that you follow her recommendations for lowering both your thyroid and your cortisone. With the cortisone, you may need to do so more slowly to avoid problems. I am even more concerned with the dose of cortisone you are taking than with the thyroid. 30-40 mg of cortisone is generally a full replacement dose. What you have been taking is a huge pharmacological dose, which ought not to be continued over a long period of time. I do not know of any doc who would allow you to continue on anything close to the doses of cortisone you have been on. Likewise, your dose of thyroid. Even those who are comfortable with large doses of Armour are going to ask you to back down to a much lower dose, making any increases in a very conservative fashion. I would expect you to be pretty uncomfortable while reducing your doses. Are you on any other hormones? Estrogen is often involved with sleep issues. The cortisone often causes osteoporosis. I would suggest that you have a bone density scan some time soon, if you have not had one in the last year. Dana wrote: Hi everyone,I'm pretty new to this group and when I joined I was in need of a new doc. I got the recommendation to see Dr. R in Lubbock but thought that the drive was too much for me at this time (about 5 hours) so I visited a new doc in Mesquite. Mesquite is quite a drive for me too but it's about half as far as to Lubbock from ville. Anyway, this new doc's name is Bessie Owens and I think she's quite personable and so is her office staff. I've had an initial appointment with her and she spent quite a long time with my son and me. My 15 year old son is also hypo and we went together. Our appointment time was 1pm and we didn't get out of there until about 4:30. We didn't wait around to be seen unlike some of the other doctor's I've seen in the past.Dr. Owens seems to be very knowledgeable about treating the thyroid, adrenals and hormone issues but as far as I'm concerned the jury's still out. I'm concerned about a few things and worry because she immediately started changing my medications. I told her that I was feeling pretty good with my current treatment and I didn't want her to make any changes. (My last Dr. passed away so I had to find someone else.) Dr. Owens didn't like that my TSH was <.01 (range 0.3-5.1) and my Free T3's were 9.3 (range 2.3-4.2). Personally, I don't care what my labs say. I feel that the most important thing is how I feel and how well I'm able to function. Dr. Owens agreed but she didn't want my levels to be so far out of range. She said two things to me that I'm not sure about and I doubt if I have her exact words. 1) She felt that if I'm overmedicated, my symptoms could be similar to my symptoms when I'm under medicated. I find that weird. Also 2) she wanted to remain within recognized limits and it seemed like she was worried about being disciplined. She explained it rather well though; she said that she wants to be able to help people so it wouldn't be good for her patients if she was suspended like I saw with my last Dr. She's kind of walking a fine line. I was alarmed when I thought she was going to allow my levels like TSH to rise to a 1 or 2. She told me that she wouldn't have my TSH go above a 0.2. It would keep both of us out of trouble.She didn't make any drastic changes to my medications so I was happy with that. She took it very slow and reduced me by only two dosages a week on my Armour and dropped my cortisone by 50mg every three weeks from 250mg to 150mg. After being on the 150mg level for about a week things started changing for the worse. I started to shake and it seemed like the old anxiety/panic attack symptoms were coming back. I called her office about it and was told to come in. They didn't recommend anything to me over the phone. I was upset about that but since I'm a new patient; I guess that would be natural. Initially, I thought about raising my medications back to their original levels on my own but decided to see if my body would make an adjustment to the lower cortisone levels while I'm waiting for my next appointment. Another problem I've noticed is that I can't seem to sleep which is highly unusual for me. Before my thyroid was treated, I regularly slept 20 hours a day or more. Now I can't seem to get to sleep and when I do, I'm sleeping anywhere from 5-9 hours. Strange.Finally, Dr. Owens is hypothyroid herself so she has a personal knowledge of this illness. She also has been treated and no longer requires any medication. I didn't think that was an option. I thought that thyroid medication would be for the rest of my life. It would be great to hope but I wonder if Dr. Owens was the exception to the rule. Will she have unrealistic expectations from me by expecting my body to completely heal? I would love to ditch all my medications but I never want to go back to the way I was.Dr. Owens is a D.O. She uses alternative methods and prescribes bio-identical hormones from 's pharmacy in Beeville. She has worked with them for a long time and feels comfortable with them. She tells me that their prices are more reasonable. She offers a line of supplements in her office but she doesn't push them. The supplements she recommended were also available in local stores and she gave me the choice. I don't like doctors marketing supplements. Dr. Owens office staff was very helpful in giving me directions and advising me on finding the best prices among the other businesses.I had blood work done during my first visit and the nurse called me with the results and recommendations from the Dr. They wouldn't mail me a copy of my labs but they said I could pick them up from the office. I don't like that at all because I'm not close enough to just stop by the office. They said something about not mailing them due to some privacy/legal issue. My last Dr.'s office asked me to sign a release and they didn't have a problem mailing my records or labs. Sorry this has been so long. I'm not sure about this new doctor and would like to hear from anyone who has an opinion or advice.Thanks,Dana Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Dana, Yours is certainly an interesting letter. You explain yourself well. What a dilemma to feel good, think the medication mix is working, but have to find a new doc because yours passed away. My first thought is to keep taking what works--if I were ever to find that. Then, the doc is in trouble? Why? Would those levels you have be considered mistreatment by the Texas Board of Medicine? How do they know? Someone audits the docs records routinely? Only if there is a complaint? Apparently there is a lot I do not know. My guess, only a guess, is that your change of med mix is causing the shakes AND the insomnia. 250mg a week of cortisone a would be about 36 mg a day and 150 mg a week would be 21mg a day. Right? If I am not figuring this correctly let me know. My PILL BOOK says that the starting daily dose of Cortisone is 25-300mg and that is the maintenance dose also. That would put you pretty low for daily dose, below the usual starting dose. If you are on another Corticosteroid like Prednisolone the dose would be 5-60mg a day as the mgs are not equivalent on different drugs. I am sorry I am not more knowledgeable but I certainly do hope you work this out again and let us know. I really sympathize with how you feel. Marilynandy_cruikshank wrote: Dana, is that FT3 number correct? If so, I agree with her.>> Hi everyone,> > I'm pretty new to this group and when I joined I was in need of a > new doc. I got the recommendation to see Dr. R in Lubbock but > thought that the drive was too much for me at this time (about 5 > hours) so I visited a new doc in Mesquite. Mesquite is quite a > drive for me too but it's about half as far as to Lubbock from > ville. Anyway, this new doc's name is Bessie Owens and I > think she's quite personable and so is her office staff. I've had > an initial appointment with her and she spent quite a long time with > my son and me. My 15 year old son is also hypo and we went > together. Our appointment time was 1pm and we didn't get out of > there until about 4:30. We didn't wait around to be seen unlike > some of the other doctor's I've seen in the past.> > Dr. Owens seems to be very knowledgeable about treating the thyroid, > adrenals and hormone issues but as far as I'm concerned the jury's > still out. I'm concerned about a few things and worry because she > immediately started changing my medications. I told her that I was > feeling pretty good with my current treatment and I didn't want her > to make any changes. (My last Dr. passed away so I had to find > someone else.) Dr. Owens didn't like that my TSH was <.01 (range > 0.3-5.1) and my Free T3's were 9.3 (range 2.3-4.2). Personally, I > don't care what my labs say. I feel that the most important thing > is how I feel and how well I'm able to function. Dr. Owens agreed > but she didn't want my levels to be so far out of range. She said > two things to me that I'm not sure about and I doubt if I have her > exact words. 1) She felt that if I'm overmedicated, my symptoms > could be similar to my symptoms when I'm under medicated. I find > that weird. Also 2) she wanted to remain within recognized limits > and it seemed like she was worried about being disciplined. She > explained it rather well though; she said that she wants to be able > to help people so it wouldn't be good for her patients if she was > suspended like I saw with my last Dr. She's kind of walking a fine > line. I was alarmed when I thought she was going to allow my levels > like TSH to rise to a 1 or 2. She told me that she wouldn't have my > TSH go above a 0.2. It would keep both of us out of trouble.> > She didn't make any drastic changes to my medications so I was happy > with that. She took it very slow and reduced me by only two dosages > a week on my Armour and dropped my cortisone by 50mg every three > weeks from 250mg to 150mg. After being on the 150mg level for about > a week things started changing for the worse. I started to shake > and it seemed like the old anxiety/panic attack symptoms were coming > back. I called her office about it and was told to come in. They > didn't recommend anything to me over the phone. I was upset about > that but since I'm a new patient; I guess that would be natural. > Initially, I thought about raising my medications back to their > original levels on my own but decided to see if my body would make > an adjustment to the lower cortisone levels while I'm waiting for my > next appointment. Another problem I've noticed is that I can't seem > to sleep which is highly unusual for me. Before my thyroid was > treated, I regularly slept 20 hours a day or more. Now I can't seem > to get to sleep and when I do, I'm sleeping anywhere from 5-9 > hours. Strange.> > Finally, Dr. Owens is hypothyroid herself so she has a personal > knowledge of this illness. She also has been treated and no longer > requires any medication. I didn't think that was an option. I > thought that thyroid medication would be for the rest of my life. > It would be great to hope but I wonder if Dr. Owens was the > exception to the rule. Will she have unrealistic expectations from > me by expecting my body to completely heal? I would love to ditch > all my medications but I never want to go back to the way I was.> > Dr. Owens is a D.O. She uses alternative methods and prescribes bio-> identical hormones from 's pharmacy in Beeville. She has > worked with them for a long time and feels comfortable with them. > She tells me that their prices are more reasonable. She offers a > line of supplements in her office but she doesn't push them. The > supplements she recommended were also available in local stores and > she gave me the choice. I don't like doctors marketing > supplements. Dr. Owens office staff was very helpful in giving me > directions and advising me on finding the best prices among the > other businesses.> > I had blood work done during my first visit and the nurse called me > with the results and recommendations from the Dr. They wouldn't > mail me a copy of my labs but they said I could pick them up from > the office. I don't like that at all because I'm not close enough > to just stop by the office. They said something about not mailing > them due to some privacy/legal issue. My last Dr.'s office asked me > to sign a release and they didn't have a problem mailing my records > or labs. > > Sorry this has been so long. I'm not sure about this new doctor > and would like to hear from anyone who has an opinion or advice.> > Thanks,> Dana> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Okay, I must have misunderstood the dose of cortisone. I thought you were giving a weekly dose instead of daily. Forget my figuring on that. However, 150-250mg daily is within theraputic range as per THE PILL BOOK. But, as Jan said, it is high and there are consequences. Good luck. m.Marilyn wrote: Dana, Yours is certainly an interesting letter. You explain yourself well. What a dilemma to feel good, think the medication mix is working, but have to find a new doc because yours passed away. My first thought is to keep taking what works--if I were ever to find that. Then, the doc is in trouble? Why? Would those levels you have be considered mistreatment by the Texas Board of Medicine? How do they know? Someone audits the docs records routinely? Only if there is a complaint? Apparently there is a lot I do not know. My guess, only a guess, is that your change of med mix is causing the shakes AND the insomnia. 250mg a week of cortisone a would be about 36 mg a day and 150 mg a week would be 21mg a day. Right? If I am not figuring this correctly let me know. My PILL BOOK says that the starting daily dose of Cortisone is 25-300mg and that is the maintenance dose also. That would put you pretty low for daily dose, below the usual starting dose. If you are on another Corticosteroid like Prednisolone the dose would be 5-60mg a day as the mgs are not equivalent on different drugs. I am sorry I am not more knowledgeable but I certainly do hope you work this out again and let us know. I really sympathize with how you feel. Marilynandy_cruikshank wrote: Dana, is that FT3 number correct? If so, I agree with her.>> Hi everyone,> > I'm pretty new to this group and when I joined I was in need of a > new doc. I got the recommendation to see Dr. R in Lubbock but > thought that the drive was too much for me at this time (about 5 > hours) so I visited a new doc in Mesquite. Mesquite is quite a > drive for me too but it's about half as far as to Lubbock from > ville. Anyway, this new doc's name is Bessie Owens and I > think she's quite personable and so is her office staff. I've had > an initial appointment with her and she spent quite a long time with > my son and me. My 15 year old son is also hypo and we went > together. Our appointment time was 1pm and we didn't get out of > there until about 4:30. We didn't wait around to be seen unlike > some of the other doctor's I've seen in the past.> > Dr. Owens seems to be very knowledgeable about treating the thyroid, > adrenals and hormone issues but as far as I'm concerned the jury's > still out. I'm concerned about a few things and worry because she > immediately started changing my medications. I told her that I was > feeling pretty good with my current treatment and I didn't want her > to make any changes. (My last Dr. passed away so I had to find > someone else.) Dr. Owens didn't like that my TSH was <.01 (range > 0.3-5.1) and my Free T3's were 9.3 (range 2.3-4.2). Personally, I > don't care what my labs say. I feel that the most important thing > is how I feel and how well I'm able to function. Dr. Owens agreed > but she didn't want my levels to be so far out of range. She said > two things to me that I'm not sure about and I doubt if I have her > exact words. 1) She felt that if I'm overmedicated, my symptoms > could be similar to my symptoms when I'm under medicated. I find > that weird. Also 2) she wanted to remain within recognized limits > and it seemed like she was worried about being disciplined. She > explained it rather well though; she said that she wants to be able > to help people so it wouldn't be good for her patients if she was > suspended like I saw with my last Dr. She's kind of walking a fine > line. I was alarmed when I thought she was going to allow my levels > like TSH to rise to a 1 or 2. She told me that she wouldn't have my > TSH go above a 0.2. It would keep both of us out of trouble.> > She didn't make any drastic changes to my medications so I was happy > with that. She took it very slow and reduced me by only two dosages > a week on my Armour and dropped my cortisone by 50mg every three > weeks from 250mg to 150mg. After being on the 150mg level for about > a week things started changing for the worse. I started to shake > and it seemed like the old anxiety/panic attack symptoms were coming > back. I called her office about it and was told to come in. They > didn't recommend anything to me over the phone. I was upset about > that but since I'm a new patient; I guess that would be natural. > Initially, I thought about raising my medications back to their > original levels on my own but decided to see if my body would make > an adjustment to the lower cortisone levels while I'm waiting for my > next appointment. Another problem I've noticed is that I can't seem > to sleep which is highly unusual for me. Before my thyroid was > treated, I regularly slept 20 hours a day or more. Now I can't seem > to get to sleep and when I do, I'm sleeping anywhere from 5-9 > hours. Strange.> > Finally, Dr. Owens is hypothyroid herself so she has a personal > knowledge of this illness. She also has been treated and no longer > requires any medication. I didn't think that was an option. I > thought that thyroid medication would be for the rest of my life. > It would be great to hope but I wonder if Dr. Owens was the > exception to the rule. Will she have unrealistic expectations from > me by expecting my body to completely heal? I would love to ditch > all my medications but I never want to go back to the way I was.> > Dr. Owens is a D.O. She uses alternative methods and prescribes bio-> identical hormones from 's pharmacy in Beeville. She has > worked with them for a long time and feels comfortable with them. > She tells me that their prices are more reasonable. She offers a > line of supplements in her office but she doesn't push them. The > supplements she recommended were also available in local stores and > she gave me the choice. I don't like doctors marketing > supplements. Dr. Owens office staff was very helpful in giving me > directions and advising me on finding the best prices among the > other businesses.> > I had blood work done during my first visit and the nurse called me > with the results and recommendations from the Dr. They wouldn't > mail me a copy of my labs but they said I could pick them up from > the office. I don't like that at all because I'm not close enough > to just stop by the office. They said something about not mailing > them due to some privacy/legal issue. My last Dr.'s office asked me > to sign a release and they didn't have a problem mailing my records > or labs. > > Sorry this has been so long. I'm not sure about this new doctor > and would like to hear from anyone who has an opinion or advice.> > Thanks,> Dana> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 The complaints generally come when a patient shows up at the emergency room with symptoms of overmedication or when they visit a more conservative doc-usually an endo-who decides that the alternative doc needs to be investigated. I understood her dosing of the cortisone to be daily amounts, not weekly. We need a clarification there. The dose amounts in your pill book would be for pharmacological (used as a drug) dosing, as opposed to physiologic dosing, which many thyroid patients need. Marilyn wrote: Dana, Yours is certainly an interesting letter. You explain yourself well. What a dilemma to feel good, think the medication mix is working, but have to find a new doc because yours passed away. My first thought is to keep taking what works--if I were ever to find that. Then, the doc is in trouble? Why? Would those levels you have be considered mistreatment by the Texas Board of Medicine? How do they know? Someone audits the docs records routinely? Only if there is a complaint? Apparently there is a lot I do not know. My guess, only a guess, is that your change of med mix is causing the shakes AND the insomnia. 250mg a week of cortisone a would be about 36 mg a day and 150 mg a week would be 21mg a day. Right? If I am not figuring this correctly let me know. My PILL BOOK says that the starting daily dose of Cortisone is 25-300mg and that is the maintenance dose also. That would put you pretty low for daily dose, below the usual starting dose. If you are on another Corticosteroid like Prednisolone the dose would be 5-60mg a day as the mgs are not equivalent on different drugs. I am sorry I am not more knowledgeable but I certainly do hope you work this out again and let us know. I really sympathize with how you feel. Marilynandy_cruikshank wrote: Dana, is that FT3 number correct? If so, I agree with her.>> Hi everyone,> > I'm pretty new to this group and when I joined I was in need of a > new doc. I got the recommendation to see Dr. R in Lubbock but > thought that the drive was too much for me at this time (about 5 > hours) so I visited a new doc in Mesquite. Mesquite is quite a > drive for me too but it's about half as far as to Lubbock from > ville. Anyway, this new doc's name is Bessie Owens and I > think she's quite personable and so is her office staff. I've had > an initial appointment with her and she spent quite a long time with > my son and me. My 15 year old son is also hypo and we went > together. Our appointment time was 1pm and we didn't get out of > there until about 4:30. We didn't wait around to be seen unlike > some of the other doctor's I've seen in the past.> > Dr. Owens seems to be very knowledgeable about treating the thyroid, > adrenals and hormone issues but as far as I'm concerned the jury's > still out. I'm concerned about a few things and worry because she > immediately started changing my medications. I told her that I was > feeling pretty good with my current treatment and I didn't want her > to make any changes. (My last Dr. passed away so I had to find > someone else.) Dr. Owens didn't like that my TSH was <.01 (range > 0.3-5.1) and my Free T3's were 9.3 (range 2.3-4.2). Personally, I > don't care what my labs say. I feel that the most important thing > is how I feel and how well I'm able to function. Dr. Owens agreed > but she didn't want my levels to be so far out of range. She said > two things to me that I'm not sure about and I doubt if I have her > exact words. 1) She felt that if I'm overmedicated, my symptoms > could be similar to my symptoms when I'm under medicated. I find > that weird. Also 2) she wanted to remain within recognized limits > and it seemed like she was worried about being disciplined. She > explained it rather well though; she said that she wants to be able > to help people so it wouldn't be good for her patients if she was > suspended like I saw with my last Dr. She's kind of walking a fine > line. I was alarmed when I thought she was going to allow my levels > like TSH to rise to a 1 or 2. She told me that she wouldn't have my > TSH go above a 0.2. It would keep both of us out of trouble.> > She didn't make any drastic changes to my medications so I was happy > with that. She took it very slow and reduced me by only two dosages > a week on my Armour and dropped my cortisone by 50mg every three > weeks from 250mg to 150mg. After being on the 150mg level for about > a week things started changing for the worse. I started to shake > and it seemed like the old anxiety/panic attack symptoms were coming > back. I called her office about it and was told to come in. They > didn't recommend anything to me over the phone. I was upset about > that but since I'm a new patient; I guess that would be natural. > Initially, I thought about raising my medications back to their > original levels on my own but decided to see if my body would make > an adjustment to the lower cortisone levels while I'm waiting for my > next appointment. Another problem I've noticed is that I can't seem > to sleep which is highly unusual for me. Before my thyroid was > treated, I regularly slept 20 hours a day or more. Now I can't seem > to get to sleep and when I do, I'm sleeping anywhere from 5-9 > hours. Strange.> > Finally, Dr. Owens is hypothyroid herself so she has a personal > knowledge of this illness. She also has been treated and no longer > requires any medication. I didn't think that was an option. I > thought that thyroid medication would be for the rest of my life. > It would be great to hope but I wonder if Dr. Owens was the > exception to the rule. Will she have unrealistic expectations from > me by expecting my body to completely heal? I would love to ditch > all my medications but I never want to go back to the way I was.> > Dr. Owens is a D.O. She uses alternative methods and prescribes bio-> identical hormones from 's pharmacy in Beeville. She has > worked with them for a long time and feels comfortable with them. > She tells me that their prices are more reasonable. She offers a > line of supplements in her office but she doesn't push them. The > supplements she recommended were also available in local stores and > she gave me the choice. I don't like doctors marketing > supplements. Dr. Owens office staff was very helpful in giving me > directions and advising me on finding the best prices among the > other businesses.> > I had blood work done during my first visit and the nurse called me > with the results and recommendations from the Dr. They wouldn't > mail me a copy of my labs but they said I could pick them up from > the office. I don't like that at all because I'm not close enough > to just stop by the office. They said something about not mailing > them due to some privacy/legal issue. My last Dr.'s office asked me > to sign a release and they didn't have a problem mailing my records > or labs. > > Sorry this has been so long. I'm not sure about this new doctor > and would like to hear from anyone who has an opinion or advice.> > Thanks,> Dana Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Progesterone does make me very nervous, like I have PMS. Estrogen helps me sleep really well! Steph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Progesterone does make me very nervous, like I have PMS. Estrogen helps me sleep really well! Steph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Sorry for the bad information on my dose of cortisone. My dosage was 25mg originally and now is 15mg. I didn't notice the mistake when I posted early this morning. My last doctor was disciplined a couple of times. The last time, she was specifically restricted from treating thyroid patients. From what I heard, it wasn't because any of her patients had complaints or problems but it was a conflict with insurance companies. It also seemed like she got in trouble from other people in the medical community who did't understand good thyroid treatment and they were out to stop a heretic or something. My last doctor really cared about her patients and she did what was best for the patient no matter what. It's awful hard to find doctors like that! Again, I'm sorry about the mixup with my cortisone dosage. I'm still open to comments or opinions about my new doctor. Thanks, Dana > > The complaints generally come when a patient shows up at the emergency room with symptoms of overmedication or when they visit a more conservative doc-usually an endo-who decides that the alternative doc needs to be investigated. > > I understood her dosing of the cortisone to be daily amounts, not weekly. We need a clarification there. The dose amounts in your pill book would be for pharmacological (used as a drug) dosing, as opposed to physiologic dosing, which many thyroid patients need. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 25 mg is a little high, but it is not outrageous. 10-20 mg is typical dosing. I am on 20 mg myself. When under stress or when allergies are severe, I increase to 30 mg for up to five days. At one point, my doc reluctantly let me try 25 mg as a regular dose. After two weeks, my feet were swelling up. So much for that experiment. Rose was not in network for any insurance companies. Or was it her malpractice insurance? The investigations can be instigated by a patient, but are more likely to be instigated by another doc. Alternative docs who survive the scrutiny of the conservative medical community are those who keep very good documentation and records, do all required testing, keep a low profile-no website, no books, no self-promotion, and preferabley are members of the "Good Ole Boys Club," not very likely for a female. . . . Dana wrote: Sorry for the bad information on my dose of cortisone. My dosage was 25mg originally and now is 15mg. I didn't notice the mistake when I posted early this morning.My last doctor was disciplined a couple of times. The last time, she was specifically restricted from treating thyroid patients. From what I heard, it wasn't because any of her patients had complaints or problems but it was a conflict with insurance companies. It also seemed like she got in trouble from other people in the medical community who did't understand good thyroid treatment and they were out to stop a heretic or something. My last doctor really cared about her patients and she did what was best for the patient no matter what. It's awful hard to find doctors like that!Again, I'm sorry about the mixup with my cortisone dosage. I'm still open to comments or opinions about my new doctor.Thanks, Dana >> The complaints generally come when a patient shows up at the emergency room with symptoms of overmedication or when they visit a more conservative doc-usually an endo-who decides that the alternative doc needs to be investigated.> > I understood her dosing of the cortisone to be daily amounts, not weekly. We need a clarification there. The dose amounts in your pill book would be for pharmacological (used as a drug) dosing, as opposed to physiologic dosing, which many thyroid patients need. Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Thanks for the information. I'm actually glad to hear that what I'm experiencing is common or normal. I doubted Dr. Owens when she told me that my symptoms would be similar if I was over or under medicated. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me but if other people have seen things like that too then I will try to accept it. I never thought about a doctor worrying about their new patient being a spy. I guess it makes sense especially after what happened with Dr. Rose. By the way, what does TSBME stand for? Sorry for the mistake on my cortisone dosage. My dose was 25mg and now it is down to 15mg not 250mg-150mg. My mistake was probably due to lack of sleep. I'm trying to stick with Dr. Owens' suggestions. I normally change things myself or I run to another doctor. I don't like getting to know new doctors because they always change things up in the beginning. I wished that they wouldn't do it though. I was feeling pretty good after a couple of years working with Dr. Rose and I don't like going backwards. I wasn't even at my maintenance dose yet but I was feeling pretty good. For me, feeling pretty good is probably on the level of someone else's bad day. I don't even remember what normal is supposed to be. Dr. Rose had me on 400mg of progesterone every night. Dr. Owens changed me to a new Tri-Est Progesterone. On the label it says " 30 Ea TRI-EST PROG 1.25/200 " once a day. I just called my pharmacist and he told me that I'm taking 1.25mg of the Tri-estrogen and 200mg of progesterone. It sounds like this Tri-Est progesterone is more compatible to what my normal body would have produced before I had my hysterectomy. It also sounded like my shakiness could be due to the added estrogen. While I've been battling my thyroid issues, I haven't given much thought to anything else. I keep telling myself that when I feel better I'll be able to think about these other issues like a bone scan or losing weight. I can only handle so much at a time. Dana > > Symptoms of over and under medication can be very similar. For me, both over and undermedication result in joint pain. > > The skewering of Fran Rose has had a chilling effect on a lot of docs. Former Broda docs have become devout TSH-worshippers. But if you read the board orders on her, it was failure to do suitable testing and keep documentation that got her in trouble. > > As a new patient, you are in a bad position to have a doc cut you any slack. They may think you are a spy forTSBME. > > Even docs who do not blink at suppressed TSH or a Free T3 slightly over range would have a cow at the Free T3 that much over range. I would suggest that you follow her recommendations for lowering both your thyroid and your cortisone. With the cortisone, you may need to do so more slowly to avoid problems. > > I am even more concerned with the dose of cortisone you are taking than with the thyroid. 30-40 mg of cortisone is generally a full replacement dose. What you have been taking is a huge pharmacological dose, which ought not to be continued over a long period of time. > > I do not know of any doc who would allow you to continue on anything close to the doses of cortisone you have been on. > > Likewise, your dose of thyroid. Even those who are comfortable with large doses of Armour are going to ask you to back down to a much lower dose, making any increases in a very conservative fashion. > > I would expect you to be pretty uncomfortable while reducing your doses. > > Are you on any other hormones? Estrogen is often involved with sleep issues. > > The cortisone often causes osteoporosis. I would suggest that you have a bone density scan some time soon, if you have not had one in the last year. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 TSBME = Texas State Board of Medical Examiners. It often happens that when docs increase your dose of thyroid by 60 mg or even 30 mg increments, you may pass up your sweet spot. There is a Goldilocks factor at work here. More is not always better. We need everything to be "just right." Hypothyroidism causes tissue damage, which takes time to heal. You could be on your optimal dose for 12-18 months or more before that process is complete. Increasing your dose does not speed up that process. Being overmedicated can slow it down. Unless you reach an impasse with Dr. Owens, I do not think you are going to do any better with another doc. In the first place, there are not very many docs who treat adrenal fatigue. And I do not know of any doc anywhere who would allow you to stay on Rose's protocols. Every single one of them would reduce your Armour. I doubt that the TriEst is making you nervous. It may actually help you sleep. The progesterone may be energizing to some folks, however. It is a good sign that Dr. Owens is looking at balancing all of your hormones. They all work together. Dana wrote: Thanks for the information. I'm actually glad to hear that what I'm experiencing is common or normal. I doubted Dr. Owens when she told me that my symptoms would be similar if I was over or under medicated. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me but if other people have seen things like that too then I will try to accept it.I never thought about a doctor worrying about their new patient being a spy. I guess it makes sense especially after what happened with Dr. Rose. By the way, what does TSBME stand for?Sorry for the mistake on my cortisone dosage. My dose was 25mg and now it is down to 15mg not 250mg-150mg. My mistake was probably due to lack of sleep.I'm trying to stick with Dr. Owens' suggestions. I normally change things myself or I run to another doctor. I don't like getting to know new doctors because they always change things up in the beginning. I wished that they wouldn't do it though. I was feeling pretty good after a couple of years working with Dr. Rose and I don't like going backwards. I wasn't even at my maintenance dose yet but I was feeling pretty good. For me, feeling pretty good is probably on the level of someone else's bad day. I don't even remember what normal is supposed to be.Dr. Rose had me on 400mg of progesterone every night. Dr. Owens changed me to a new Tri-Est Progesterone. On the label it says "30 Ea TRI-EST PROG 1.25/200" once a day. I just called my pharmacist and he told me that I'm taking 1.25mg of the Tri-estrogen and 200mg of progesterone. It sounds like this Tri-Est progesterone is more compatible to what my normal body would have produced before I had my hysterectomy. It also sounded like my shakiness could be due to the added estrogen.While I've been battling my thyroid issues, I haven't given much thought to anything else. I keep telling myself that when I feel better I'll be able to think about these other issues like a bone scan or losing weight. I can only handle so much at a time.Dana Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 I’m not Jan, but : When applied to hormone actions, a " physiologic " dosage implies one that promotes normal function, whereas a " pharmacologic " dosage is one in excess of normal requirements and hence, one that might alter normal function. Hope this helps, Katy From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Marilyn Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:16 PM To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: Re: Visited a new doc Thanks for the info on complaints about the docs. I apologize on my low fund of info but I have no idea what pharmacological nor physiological dosing is. Would you please explain? M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Thank you. That is better than what I could come up with. Anyone who takes or is thinking about taking hydrocortisone should read The Safe Uses of Cortisol by W. McJeffries. There is a link to the publisher on our site in "Links" in the Reproductive and Adrenal folder. Katy Deschenes wrote: I’m not Jan, but : When applied to hormone actions, a "physiologic" dosage implies one that promotes normal function, whereas a "pharmacologic" dosage is one in excess of normal requirements and hence, one that might alter normal function. Hope this helps, Katy From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of MarilynSent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:16 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: Re: Visited a new doc Thanks for the info on complaints about the docs. I apologize on my low fund of info but I have no idea what pharmacological nor physiological dosing is. Would you please explain? M. How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Was that progesterone or progestin? > > Progesterone does make me very nervous, like I have PMS. Estrogen helps me > sleep really well! > Steph > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Was that progesterone or progestin? > > Progesterone does make me very nervous, like I have PMS. Estrogen helps me > sleep really well! > Steph > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Progesterone makes me sleep and very calm. I am weird! I know. I take it at night (like doc recommended) and I go to sleep within an hour. He said it would do this. My estrogen levels are through the roof, progesterone tested very, very low. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 , I am having a ton of problems with high estrogen. Hot flashes, irritability, 2 periods a month (that has decreased because of Armour) cramping, etc. Is your estrogen high? If so, what problems do you have with it? I have perimenopause, of course. I started with symptoms at least 4 years ago, maybe earlier. I am 44 now. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Hi Deborah, Have you read Dr. Lee's book, " What your doctor may not tell you about Premenopause? " It's an excellent resource and I think the progesterone has helped with some things (maybe it will help balance out your high estrogen) although it can't help everything. I just posted about what's going on with me (I'm 46). Oh yes, I've had heavy periods for decades, extremely heavy 4-5 years, increasing pain, duration, etc. I'm glad the Armour is helping you. I haven't experienced hot flashes (knock on wood) but maybe now that I am having a hysterectomy, who knows what's down the road. Anyway, I hope you read Dr. Lee's book. Here's a link for it although it may be at your local library! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446615390/sr=8- 2/qid=1144864579/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-3598830-2390566?%5Fencoding=UTF8 > > , > I am having a ton of problems with high estrogen. Hot flashes, irritability, 2 periods a month (that has decreased because of Armour) cramping, etc. Is your estrogen high? If so, what problems do you have with it? I have perimenopause, of course. I started with symptoms at least 4 years ago, maybe earlier. I am 44 now. > Deborah > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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