Re: Has anyone not been able to tolerate Armour?

[Guest guest]

I don't know about anyone else, but when I made the

switch from Levoxyl to Armour, I pretty much had to

start from scratch.

Regarding the Levoxyl, my then doctor increased my

amounts much too quickly. Once I got up to .125, my

TSH was suppressed, but my T4 and T3 levels were still

at the bottom (can you say SICK?).

This is what I did-- I took about five months on 30

mg. of Armour, without being able to increase it

because of other undiscovered problems. Then, I saw

Dr. R and managed to get on a much more thoughtful

protocol of DHEA, iron, etc., which allowed me to

increase to 45 mg. of Armour.

Now I'm trying to increase from 45 mg. to 60 mg.,

which is turning out to be a little bit harder. I am

taking the full 60 mg. once every three days. As of

Tuesday, I will increase it to every other day.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in my case,

patience was key in switching to a different drug, but

the results were quite clear that I was much, much

better on Armour. Levoxyl, even at low doses,

actually gave me NEW symptoms.

I hope other will weigh in with their stories, as I

feel that mine is so specific to my own case.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

--- cowgirlgrams wrote:

---------------------------------

I have trouble with the dyes in Levoxyl....luckily I

am taking

two .50's which have no dye. If I have to increase

again I am afraid

I will have to get into the pills with the dyes unless

there is a way

to cut and split to make the next increase with all

white pills. I

may be worrying about this too needlessly but would

like to have

options if this were the case.

If I do need another increase and decide to try Armour

again what

dosage is recommended to start with after being on

..100 of Levoxyl?

Also, would like to hear if people had trouble with

Armour and had to

switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you for

listening...

[Guest guest]

I think you need to start with just the Armour. I've never had trouble

with it. I do have adrenal issues, B-12, and ferritin. But I've never had

problems taking the Armour. Right now I'm having refocusing and get back

on the adrenal support. I think the key for some with Armour is breaking

the dose. Take half in the morning and half in the afternoon. If you have

trouble raise 15mg or 1/4 of a grain at a time. You can raise ever 3 weeks

up to 3 grains. But you might have to go a little slower.

Have you had your ferritin checked?

Kate

At 01:36 PM 1/9/2006, you wrote:

>I go for a blood test in a couple of weeks to check blood levels for

>my increase in Levoxyl. My last increase a few months ago didn't

>touch my blood levels. I went from .75 to .875 Am contemplating on

>whether to try Armour if this increase doesn't do anything with the

>Levoxyl. I tried Armour about 12 years ago but then dr. then didn't

>really know much about Armour and started me out on a high dose..had

>palps and anxiety. He sent me to an Endo then in Altanta and the

>Endo then said no wonder you have have palps and anxiety because

>Armour does that to alot of people so that is when he put me on

>Levoxyl. But when I look at it now after what everyone is saying on

>this site is that the starting dose of Armour was way too high.

>

>I have trouble with the dyes in Levoxyl....luckily I am taking

>two .50's which have no dye. If I have to increase again I am afraid

>I will have to get into the pills with the dyes unless there is a way

>to cut and split to make the next increase with all white pills. I

>may be worrying about this too needlessly but would like to have

>options if this were the case.

>

>If I do need another increase and decide to try Armour again what

>dosage is recommended to start with after being on .100 of Levoxyl?

>

>Also, would like to hear if people had trouble with Armour and had to

>switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you for listening...

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kate....yes I have had my ferritin and cortisol levels checked

just a few weeks ago and they were in normal range. With Armour do

you have to wait the hour after you take it and two hours after you

eat to take it like you do with Levoxyl? If I don't take my Levoxyl

as soon as I get up in the mornings I would have trouble to find a

time that I could take it during the day. Guess you could say I

nibble too much throughout the day...lol Bad habit )

> >I go for a blood test in a couple of weeks to check blood levels

for

> >my increase in Levoxyl. My last increase a few months ago didn't

> >touch my blood levels. I went from .75 to .875 Am contemplating on

> >whether to try Armour if this increase doesn't do anything with the

> >Levoxyl. I tried Armour about 12 years ago but then dr. then

didn't

> >really know much about Armour and started me out on a high

dose..had

> >palps and anxiety. He sent me to an Endo then in Altanta and the

> >Endo then said no wonder you have have palps and anxiety because

> >Armour does that to alot of people so that is when he put me on

> >Levoxyl. But when I look at it now after what everyone is saying

on

> >this site is that the starting dose of Armour was way too high.

> >

> >I have trouble with the dyes in Levoxyl....luckily I am taking

> >two .50's which have no dye. If I have to increase again I am

afraid

> >I will have to get into the pills with the dyes unless there is a

way

> >to cut and split to make the next increase with all white pills. I

> >may be worrying about this too needlessly but would like to have

> >options if this were the case.

> >

> >If I do need another increase and decide to try Armour again what

> >dosage is recommended to start with after being on .100 of Levoxyl?

> >

> >Also, would like to hear if people had trouble with Armour and had

to

> >switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you for

listening...

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like our drs. back then went to the same learning

school...starting too much too soon. I go to Dr. Yolanda Marcus here

in SA...not sure how much education she has in Armour but when I was

there the last time I asked if she prescribed Armour and she said

yes...and she had this look on her face like she was wanting me to

ask her to try Armour. She wouldn't have any problem in prescribing

it but I wonder how educated she is in starting doses. I don't know

anyone else on this board that goes to her yet. It also sounds like

you have a very sensitive system like myself. Are you getting the

palps and anxiety feelings with the increase to 60 mg ? Since I have

been undermedicated on Levoxyl all these years...just in the last 6

months or so I noticed my eye brows becoming very thin and patchy.

My hair has thinned a great deal over the years also. It hasn't been

6 weeks since the last increase so I am hoping maybe the Levoxyl

might help with the hair and eyebrows. At least I have another

option...patience is the key here like you said. Thanks for posting

Courtenay and hope to get to meet you at the next meeting in

SA. ..

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> I have trouble with the dyes in Levoxyl....luckily I

> am taking

> two .50's which have no dye. If I have to increase

> again I am afraid

> I will have to get into the pills with the dyes unless

> there is a way

> to cut and split to make the next increase with all

> white pills. I

> may be worrying about this too needlessly but would

> like to have

> options if this were the case.

>

> If I do need another increase and decide to try Armour

> again what

> dosage is recommended to start with after being on

> .100 of Levoxyl?

>

> Also, would like to hear if people had trouble with

> Armour and had to

> switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you for

> listening...

>

[Guest guest]

-

I had " maxxed out " at about .75 on my Levoxyl in late 2004 and was

in a very bad slide, and a specialized clinic I went to didn't help

me with their synthetic T4/T3 combo. From reading this board's

information and learning of his biochemistry background, I decided

to see Dr. , and I went on Armour and other supportive meds

and supplements. I would agree that most docs who aren't well

trained or experienced with Armour (and the totality of metabolic

issues, all the hormones, etc.) might start folks out on too high a

dose, try to raise them too fast, and not know about the supportive

meds that most of us need to make everything work in concert. That's

probably why docs give Armour a bad rap - they don't know how to

dose it, they want a quick fix, and they don't treat the other

important stuff. And from what I've read on this board, most docs go

way too fast on increases. Dr. R goes very slowly and the other meds

have to be there for it all to work together. One very important

thing he did was discover my lousy iron condition, which had made me

additionally tired. No other doc, especially my pcp, tested for it

and/or addressed it.

I went very slowly on my Armour increases and noticed when and if I

felt jittery, and backed off a bit. I usually went a week or two

before I increased. And those increases were tiny, like 1/4 of

a .50gr pill at a time. At one point, I found that if I added my

increase in the morining, it worked better. This was Dr. R's

suggestion. I think most people don't understand that you can't take

a run down body and suddenly introduce thyroid med into it and

expect to start increasing it in a couple of weeks. It takes months

for most of us to adapt to each level of change, and we need other

meds to help our bodies heal and support it, so it can be tolerated.

We don't metabolize well when we're sick. We just can't go fast at

adapting to anything for quite awhile.

Your trouble with Armour is possibly complex - possibly too much of

a dose at the onset, possibly needing to split the dose during the

day, possibly not having good supportive meds (see Sharon's post at

6:45am this morning for good info on this), not going slowly enough

on increases, issues of nutrition, caffeine, smoking, sleeping, life

stresses, etc. It all comes into play when dealing with something

this complex - our metabolism. I had to talk to myself quite a bit

about being a patient patient. It's been hard at times. But I have

to remember that I don't have the flu! It's not going to be " over "

in a week.

I think this is why it's so important to have a doc who understands

the entire complexity of all the issues and goes slowly and watches

how your body is adapting.

JMHO - Sara

>

>

> Also, would like to hear if people had trouble with Armour and had

to

> switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you for

listening...

>

[Guest guest]

Same for me. I went " cold turkey " from Levoxyl to Armour, and I will

be truthful that it was rough and I crashed big time. I was so very

low in iron and other supportive stuff, my tank was truly empty. I

guess my receptors couldn't recognize the new stuff quite yet, and

so I was pretty much on my a** for the duration. It took me about

two months to get back to being up and around some, handling a few

household chores and getting to the bank and post office, but the

big switch had to be done. I know I'm in a much better place, too,

especially with all the other supportive meds. My increases in

Armour and my other meds this past summer made me feel even better.

I can't wait for more!! (Has anyone else experienced a craving for

Armour? I can feel it every time I open the bottle now. I'm starting

to identify with my cat who chased the empty Armour bottle around

the floor with her nose stuck in it.)...Sara

>

> I don't know about anyone else, but when I made the

> switch from Levoxyl to Armour, I pretty much had to

> start from scratch.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kate!

My ferritin was 82 Scale 10 - 291 So it is probably ok.

I didn't know there was a sublinqual Armour! That is great...does

anyone else here take the sublinqual form? How many mg. did you

start out with Kate?

Thanks again for the info Kate....

> > > >I go for a blood test in a couple of weeks to check blood

levels

> >for

> > > >my increase in Levoxyl. My last increase a few months ago

didn't

> > > >touch my blood levels. I went from .75 to .875 Am

contemplating on

> > > >whether to try Armour if this increase doesn't do anything

with the

> > > >Levoxyl. I tried Armour about 12 years ago but then dr. then

> >didn't

> > > >really know much about Armour and started me out on a high

> >dose..had

> > > >palps and anxiety. He sent me to an Endo then in Altanta and

the

> > > >Endo then said no wonder you have have palps and anxiety

because

> > > >Armour does that to alot of people so that is when he put me on

> > > >Levoxyl. But when I look at it now after what everyone is

saying

> >on

> > > >this site is that the starting dose of Armour was way too high.

> > > >

> > > >I have trouble with the dyes in Levoxyl....luckily I am taking

> > > >two .50's which have no dye. If I have to increase again I am

> >afraid

> > > >I will have to get into the pills with the dyes unless there

is a

> >way

> > > >to cut and split to make the next increase with all white

pills. I

> > > >may be worrying about this too needlessly but would like to

have

> > > >options if this were the case.

> > > >

> > > >If I do need another increase and decide to try Armour again

what

> > > >dosage is recommended to start with after being on .100 of

Levoxyl?

> > > >

> > > >Also, would like to hear if people had trouble with Armour and

had

> >to

> > > >switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you for

> >listening...

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for your time to post Sara. This can be so stressful

sometimes...we all want those quick fixes. But I am learning we can

all get there eventually...we need to be patient which isn't easy in

itself. Seems like everyone goes to Dr. R and really likes him.

It's another stressful time changing Drs. I just found the Dr. I

have now and been pleased with her and an added plus is that she

isn't far from my house. Thanks again...

> >

> >

> > Also, would like to hear if people had trouble with Armour and

had

> to

> > switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you for

> listening...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sara, do you take the sublinqual form?

> >

> > I don't know about anyone else, but when I made the

> > switch from Levoxyl to Armour, I pretty much had to

> > start from scratch.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey...our Mother's had good taste in names huh? I didn't like the name

when I was young and went by Liz...my Dad called me Lizzy. I

remarried about 16 years ago and my husband now called me and

it grew on me. Now I think it is a pretty name...maybe I am just

prejudice or old fashion now )

Well that is great that Armour can be taken sublinqual or swallowed!

That makes it easy. Thanks Kate........

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info Jan...it sure sounded good to be able to take it

sublinqual. What's that saying ... " If it sounds too good to be true

it usually isn't? " What a bummer....but I guess then again if you

take it the same way every day than we just need to take a higher

dose if we take it with food. I usually don't eat breakfast

though...sooooo..guess I would first try it like the Levoxyl..take it

as soon as I get up in the morning...

> >

> > What was your ferritin? The " normal range " and what it should be

> are two

> > different things! Mine was 9(range was 10-1XX), it is best in

the

> range of

> > 70-90. When mine was last checked it was in the 30's, can't

> remember the

> > exact number.

> >

> > Armour is best taken sublingual. Then you don't worry about

food,

> it does

> > straight into your blood. I put mine under my tongue. It take

> about 15-20

> > minutes to dissolve, well less time than that on a smaller dose.

> >

> > I nibble during the day too!

> >

> > Kate

>

> ---------------------------------

> Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover

> Photo Books. You design it and we'll bind it!

>

[Guest guest]

No, the regular tablets seem to agree with me fine. I just try to keep

my Armour the prescribed time away from food or my other meds as

instructed. Sometimes I can't be perfect, but, as Dr. R says, " just be

sure to take your meds. " I think over the long run, having some " off "

days as far as dose timing is ok. When you get better, I think you're

more able to tolerate discrepancies. At least for me, my forgetfulness

in dose timing has not had any affect that I can tell, thank goodness.

>

> Sara, do you take the sublinqual form?

>

[Guest guest]

Courtenay- I guess you and I represent the two extremes for thyroid hormone tolerance. I was on 300 mcg of $ynthroid and felt like I was taking nothing at all. I did a gradual transition just because I knew that my conservative internist's solution to any problems I might encounter would be to go back to straight $ynthroid. So, I cut my $ynthroid in half and started adding Armour in 30 mg increments, reducing the $ynthroid as I went. It took me less than four weeks to get to 180 mg of Armour plus either 50 mcg or 75 mcg (I forget which) of a T4

med. - $ynthroid and Unithroid (also sold as the Lannett generic) are round pills and can easily be quartered. If you are willing to do some fussy cutting and/or alternate day dosing, you can probably use nothing but the white Levoxyl, too, to get any dose. Courtenay wrote: I don't know about anyone else, but when I made theswitch from Levoxyl to Armour, I pretty much had tostart from scratch. Regarding the Levoxyl, my then doctor increased myamounts much too quickly. Once I got up to .125, myTSH

was suppressed, but my T4 and T3 levels were stillat the bottom (can you say SICK?).This is what I did-- I took about five months on 30mg. of Armour, without being able to increase itbecause of other undiscovered problems. Then, I sawDr. R and managed to get on a much more thoughtfulprotocol of DHEA, iron, etc., which allowed me toincrease to 45 mg. of Armour.Now I'm trying to increase from 45 mg. to 60 mg.,which is turning out to be a little bit harder. I amtaking the full 60 mg. once every three days. As ofTuesday, I will increase it to every other day.I guess what I'm trying to say is that in my case,patience was key in switching to a different drug, butthe results were quite clear that I was much, muchbetter on Armour. Levoxyl, even at low doses,actually gave me NEW symptoms. I hope other will weigh in with their stories, as Ifeel that mine is so specific to my

own case.Best wishes--Courtenay.--- cowgirlgrams wrote:---------------------------------I have trouble with the dyes in Levoxyl....luckily Iam taking two .50's which have no dye. If I have to increaseagain I am afraid I will have to get into the pills with the dyes unlessthere is a way to cut and split to make the next increase with allwhite pills. I may be worrying about this too needlessly but wouldlike to have options if this were the case.If I do need another increase and decide to try Armouragain what dosage is recommended to start with after being on.100 of Levoxyl?Also, would like to hear if people had trouble withArmour and had to switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you forlistening...

Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

[Guest guest]

Tolerating thyroid drugs is such an individual thing,

it's really hard to know what to do first.

I know that, for myself, I didn't really start

tolerating it until I had DHEA support and my iron

started to climb. Until then, I spent most of my time

in bed. Breaking the dose also helps considerably.

You need about a six hour lapse between doses, from

what I've been told.

--- Kate Guynn wrote:

---------------------------------

I think you need to start with just the Armour. I've

never had trouble

with it. I do have adrenal issues, B-12, and

ferritin. But I've never had

problems taking the Armour. Right now I'm having

refocusing and get back

on the adrenal support. I think the key for some with

Armour is breaking

the dose. Take half in the morning and half in the

afternoon. If you have

trouble raise 15mg or 1/4 of a grain at a time. You

can raise ever 3 weeks

up to 3 grains. But you might have to go a little

slower.

Have you had your ferritin checked?

Kate

[Guest guest]

Yeah, my intolerance for practically everything is

just... so frustrating. I have to say that my body

was always sensitive, but it was never quite this bad

until I got really ill.

Courtenay.

--- Jan wrote:

> Courtenay-

>

> I guess you and I represent the two extremes for

> thyroid hormone tolerance. I was on 300 mcg of

> $ynthroid and felt like I was taking nothing at all.

>

>

[Guest guest]

or, rather, taking armour sublingually. I started it this way some time

back. I was disappointed when I heard it was pointless to take it this way

and started swallowing again - and it seemed to become less effective. I do

believe I get more action out of it sublingually - though I cannot swear to

it. As it doesn't hurt, however, I keep taking it sublingually. I like the

taste/smell of armour and it dissolves very quickly. I don't doubt that

most of it is swallowed - however I seem to absorbing something.

Terijo

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much Jan! I can't believe you were on 300 mcg of $ynthroid

and it did nothing at all. Did you mean symptom wise or bloodwork

wise. It just kind of blew me away when my bloodwork came back the

same as before I started the Levoxyl increase. So it can

happen?..

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> I have trouble with the dyes in Levoxyl....luckily I

> am taking

> two .50's which have no dye. If I have to increase

> again I am afraid

> I will have to get into the pills with the dyes unless

> there is a way

> to cut and split to make the next increase with all

> white pills. I

> may be worrying about this too needlessly but would

> like to have

> options if this were the case.

>

> If I do need another increase and decide to try Armour

> again what

> dosage is recommended to start with after being on

> .100 of Levoxyl?

>

> Also, would like to hear if people had trouble with

> Armour and had to

> switch back to a synthetic med? Thank you for

> listening...

>

> ---------------------------------

> Yahoo! Photos

> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events,

holidays, whatever.

>

[Guest guest]

I feel ok energy wise...

> >Thanks Kate!

> >

> >My ferritin was 82 Scale 10 - 291 So it is probably

> ok.

> >

> >I didn't know there was a sublinqual Armour! That is

> great...does

> >anyone else here take the sublinqual form? How many

> mg. did you

> >start out with Kate?

> >

> >Thanks again for the info Kate....

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It does sound like you are getting what you need doing it

sublinqually. If it works I sure would keep doing it that way. One

way or another I would think it gets into your system...and taking it

the same way every time...avoiding or taking it with food, etc. If I

decide to give Armour a try I would try the sublinqual way...thanks,

>

>

> or, rather, taking armour sublingually. I started it this way some

time

> back. I was disappointed when I heard it was pointless to take it

this way

> and started swallowing again - and it seemed to become less

effective. I do

> believe I get more action out of it sublingually - though I cannot

swear to

> it. As it doesn't hurt, however, I keep taking it sublingually. I

like the

> taste/smell of armour and it dissolves very quickly. I don't doubt

that

> most of it is swallowed - however I seem to absorbing something.

>

> Terijo

>

[Guest guest]

About chewing...it is good that it tastes and smells good like Terijo

says it does...

or, rather, taking armour

sublingually. I started it this way some time

> back. I was disappointed when I heard it was pointless to take it

this way

> and started swallowing again - and it seemed to become less

effective. I do

> believe I get more action out of it sublingually - though I cannot

swear to

> it. As it doesn't hurt, however, I keep taking it sublingually. I

like the

> taste/smell of armour and it dissolves very quickly. I don't doubt

that

> most of it is swallowed - however I seem to absorbing something.

>

> Terijo

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Sara,

As for cravings for Armour, I don't know -- but I do enjoy taking it

because I know the good things it is doing for me! However,

sometimes I feel like I know when I need an increase. Like now!

Besides the usual hypo symptoms, my teeth start hurting when I need

more Armour. Strange, huh? Hehe, actually I've got a lot of

lingering problems that I hope will resolve once I'm on an adequate

dose of Armour. Depression, anxiety, chronic pain, digestive

problems -- Armour's my only hope right now.

>

> Same for me. I went " cold turkey " from Levoxyl to Armour, and I

will

> be truthful that it was rough and I crashed big time. I was so

very

> low in iron and other supportive stuff, my tank was truly empty. I

> guess my receptors couldn't recognize the new stuff quite yet, and

> so I was pretty much on my a** for the duration. It took me about

> two months to get back to being up and around some, handling a few

> household chores and getting to the bank and post office, but the

> big switch had to be done. I know I'm in a much better place, too,

> especially with all the other supportive meds. My increases in

> Armour and my other meds this past summer made me feel even

better.

> I can't wait for more!! (Has anyone else experienced a craving for

> Armour? I can feel it every time I open the bottle now. I'm

starting

> to identify with my cat who chased the empty Armour bottle around

> the floor with her nose stuck in it.)...Sara

>

>