Re: med change

[Guest guest]

With your Free T3 just a hair above midpoint, you still have plenty of room to increase your T3. I would not reduce the Armour, unless you have trouble tolerating any more T3. I think 12.5 to 25 mcg of the Lannett might be more appropriate than 50 mcg if you want to add it, since you have had trouble with T4 meds in the past. While adding a T4 med is one legitimate option, I do not think it is the most appropriate option at this point. And no, your numbers do not justify adding the T4. Your numbers would suggest that you may need some more Armour. But I think his next move is going to be reducing your Armour further due to suppressed TSH. Do I have a crystal ball or

whut? I think you are finding this doc's limitations. It appears that he does not want your Free T3 levels much above the midpoint of the range. I think he is prepared to leave you undermedicated if you do not feel well with your numbers at his pre-conceived standard. It may be time to go doctor shopping some time soon. . . . sle816@... wrote: I think I mentioned my last labs They were tsh .09;

(range .40-5.50) free t3 333 (range 230-420) free t4 1.1 (range .8-1.8) I went up on my armour from 2 gr to 2 1/4 gr and didn't notice much, so Dr. O has put me on Lannett levothyroxine 50 mcg. (we were finally able to find it) Should I just stay on the 2 1/4 gr. armour or drop back down to 2 gr.??? I am a bit concerned about adding the synthetic, but I guess with my numbers it is appropriate??? What do yall think??? Steph-

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[Guest guest]

I took the 50 mcg of synthroid and felt a little ilke I was on speed. I am not sure what I am going to do now. When I increased the armour up to 2 1/4 gr I noticed no change. I think I will stay on the 2 1/4 armour and try 25 mcg of the t4 instead of the entire 50. how does that sound?

Also, what does suppress the TSH? IS it t4, t3 or the combination? Won't increasing t4 supp[ress it also, or is it just the combination???

thanks

steph

[Guest guest]

Sue, 1) I have had trouble with t4 in the past. 2) I want to stay more natural if possible - closer to what the body actually does. 3) I don't believe the propaganda about armour. It is not inconsistent at all. WE know exactly how much t3 and t4 is in armour. And by the way my body tolerates it, it is closer to my own. However, it still is not quite doing the trick and I am open to some other options.

Steph

[Guest guest]

how can it be fluctuating anymore with armour than with synthetic t4? In fact, the armour is much closer to what our bodies naturally make which is a combination of t3 and t4. again, the pharmacist can telly ou exactly how much t4 and t3 is in the armour. it is consistent and not fluctuating at all.

[Guest guest]

I was wrong on the t4 dosage. He said 50, but when I looked at the bottle it is .05mg. is taht the same as 50 mcg???

steph

[Guest guest]

T4 will suppress TSH - that's what endos give us Thycans, and from that standpoint it works fine.On 3/2/06, sle816@...

wrote:

I took the 50 mcg of synthroid and felt a little ilke I was on speed. I am not sure what I am going to do now. When I increased the armour up to 2 1/4 gr I noticed no change. I think I will stay on the 2 1/4 armour and try 25 mcg of the t4 instead of the entire 50. how does that sound?

Also, what does suppress the TSH? IS it t4, t3 or the combination? Won't increasing t4 supp[ress it also, or is it just the combination???

thanks

steph

[Guest guest]

Hi Steph.

I was told the T3 is the one that makes your heart race the most.. I did get “racy” when I first started on the Levoxyl 2.5 years ago but that was only for a few days until my body adjusted to HAVING a metabolism after being so shut down for the past year — did you get any side effects from the T3 when you started? (in combo with T4 as armour)

Thanks,

Sue

[Guest guest]

I am into natural as well and only take meds as absolutely necessary for anything so I hear ya on this one totally. I just know I can tell when my hormones and blood sugar levels change and wonder if fluctuating thyroid levels can be felt as acutely thus my concerns since I already have enough stuff going on with the hashi, hypo, and pre-menopause...!

Thanks,

Sue

Sue, 1) I have had trouble with t4 in the past. 2) I want to stay more natural if possible - closer to what the body actually does. 3) I don't believe the propaganda about armour. It is not inconsistent at all. WE know exactly how much t3 and t4 is in armour. And by the way my body tolerates it, it is closer to my own. However, it still is not quite doing the trick and I am open to some other options.

Steph

[Guest guest]

Both T3 and T4 suppress the TSH. Like I said, I think this doc is setting you up to decrease the Armour. sle816@... wrote: I took the 50 mcg of synthroid and felt a little ilke I was on speed. I am not sure what I am going to do now. When I increased the armour up to 2 1/4 gr I noticed no change. I think I will stay on the 2 1/4 armour and try 25 mcg of the t4 instead of the entire 50. how does that sound? Also, what does suppress the

TSH? IS it t4, t3 or the combination? Won't increasing t4 supp[ress it also, or is it just the combination??? thanks steph

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[Guest guest]

The main cause of your ups and downs is not likely to be the meds. Hashi comes with its own rollercoaster. . . .jytdtp wrote: I am into natural as well and only take meds as absolutely necessary for anything so I hear ya on this one totally. I just know I can tell when my hormones and blood sugar levels change and wonder if fluctuating thyroid levels can be felt as acutely thus my concerns since I already have enough stuff going on with the hashi, hypo, and pre-menopause...!Thanks,Sue Sue, 1) I have had trouble with t4 in the past. 2) I want to stay

more natural if possible - closer to what the body actually does. 3) I don't believe the propaganda about armour. It is not inconsistent at all. WE know exactly how much t3 and t4 is in armour. And by the way my body tolerates it, it is closer to my own. However, it still is not quite doing the trick and I am open to some other options. Steph

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[Guest guest]

50 mcg = .050 mg.sle816@... wrote: I was wrong on the t4 dosage. He said 50, but when I looked at the bottle it is .05mg. is taht the same as 50 mcg??? steph

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[Guest guest]

Jan -

I am saying my ups and downs ARE FROM hormones and sugar levels --- see below and then was wondering if thyroid levels can do the same thing since I am about to undergo a med change myself...sorry for the confusion!

sue

The main cause of your ups and downs is not likely to be the meds. Hashi comes with its own rollercoaster. . . .

jytdtp wrote:

I am into natural as well and only take meds as absolutely necessary for anything so I hear ya on this one totally. I just know I can tell when my hormones and blood sugar levels change and wonder if fluctuating thyroid levels can be felt as acutely thus my concerns since I already have enough stuff going on with the hashi, hypo, and pre-menopause...!

Thanks,

Sue

Sue, 1) I have had trouble with t4 in the past. 2) I want to stay more natural if possible - closer to what the body actually does. 3) I don't believe the propaganda about armour. It is not inconsistent at all. WE know exactly how much t3 and t4 is in armour. And by the way my body tolerates it, it is closer to my own. However, it still is not quite doing the trick and I am open to some other options.

Steph

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[Guest guest]

I have been told and read that the synthetic can be better regulated and controlled since it is man-made whereas the natural has tendencies to fluctuate and cause irregular amounts throughout the day.

sue

how can it be fluctuating anymore with armour than with synthetic t4? In fact, the armour is much closer to what our bodies naturally make which is a combination of t3 and t4. again, the pharmacist can telly ou exactly how much t4 and t3 is in the armour. it is consistent and not fluctuating at all.

[Guest guest]

That is flat bullcr*p! Forest makes both natural and synthetic thyroid meds. I was told by a senior pharmacist there, that they have a lot more trouble achieving even potency with the synthetic meds than they do the Armour. There was a time when Armour was inconsistent. But when synthetic thyroid meds were developed, so was the technology for measuring T3 and T4. At that time, they started using that technology with Armour. jytdtp wrote: I have been told and read that the synthetic can be better regulated and controlled since it is man-made whereas the natural has tendencies to fluctuate and cause irregular amounts throughout the day.sue how can it be fluctuating anymore with armour than with synthetic t4? In fact, the armour is much closer to what our bodies naturally make which is a combination of t3 and t4. again, the pharmacist can telly ou exactly how much t4 and t3 is in the armour. it is consistent and not fluctuating at all.

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[Guest guest]

I wonder why Armour gets this bad reputation from... I see my endo tomorrow and know I NEED to get some T3 somehow, some way. Since I am on levoxyl, I figured the best way is to add T3 rather than completely change meds and then go from there. Now I am really confused... Boy I hate these conflicting studies... Thanks for your input.

Sue

That is flat bullcr*p!

Forest makes both natural and synthetic thyroid meds. I was told by a senior pharmacist there, that they have a lot more trouble achieving even potency with the synthetic meds than they do the Armour.

I wonder why Armour gets this bad reputation from... I see my endo tomorrow and know I NEED to get some T3 somehow, some way. Since I am on levoxyl, I figured the best way is to add T3 rather than completely change meds and then go from there. Now I am really confused... Boy I hate these conflicting studies... Thanks for your input.

Sue

There was a time when Armour was inconsistent. But when synthetic thyroid meds were developed, so was the technology for measuring T3 and T4. At that time, they started using that technology with Armour.

jytdtp wrote:

I have been told and read that the synthetic can be better regulated and controlled since it is man-made whereas the natural has tendencies to fluctuate and cause irregular amounts throughout the day.

sue

[Guest guest]

Jan,

On the armour vs levoxy/cytomel...how can they get the right ratio if it’s two-in-one for the armour? I guess that would be my biggest concern..if I know 100 mcg of T4 is good and say 12.5 of T4 can that be done somehow? This is good info for me to discuss at the endo tomorrow and any help is much appreciated!!!!

Thanks

Sue

[Guest guest]

Jan,

On the armour vs levoxy/cytomel...how can they get the right ratio if it’s two-in-one for the armour? I guess that would be my biggest concern..if I know 100 mcg of T4 is good and say 12.5 of T4 can that be done somehow? This is good info for me to discuss at the endo tomorrow and any help is much appreciated!!!!

Thanks

Sue

[Guest guest]

Sue, you can absolutely use synthetic T4 and T3 if you feel better on it. I know several people on another board who do that. Everyone is different. It's nice to have options.As for the bad reputation, I think you can blame the big pharmaceuticals for that. And they brainwash all the endos.

Let us know if your endo will prescribe T3. A lot of them don't like THAT either.On 3/2/06, jytdtp <

justyourtypedtp@...> wrote:

I wonder why Armour gets this bad reputation from... I see my endo tomorrow and know I NEED to get some T3 somehow, some way. Since I am on levoxyl, I figured the best way is to add T3 rather than completely change meds and then go from there. Now I am really confused... Boy I hate these conflicting studies... Thanks for your input.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Hi Betsy,

Boy I sure do know about the pharmaceuticals co and drug reps., kickbacks, etc. and usually do go into a doc office asking for the med I have researched and want, i.e. Antibiotics, beta blockers, etc. and so — when I got my latest labs I talked with my doc and she agreed right away we could add T3 — I mentioned Cytomel cuz I had read the most about it and she said, surely, she wants to check my heart, vitals, etc and then will get me started — I have a feeling she will go either way —with the cytomel addition or to the Armour. I guess since I have had no bad reaction to the T4 levoxyl my best bet is to add the T3 and see how I do and if it works, then great and if not, we can switch me totally to the natural Armour... I am open to whatever works best.

I really appreciate your input and am just amazed that so many docs won’t do T3 — mine didn’t even hesitate when I asked about it...

Sue

Sue, you can absolutely use synthetic T4 and T3 if you feel better on it. I know several people on another board who do that. Everyone is different. It's nice to have options.

As for the bad reputation, I think you can blame the big pharmaceuticals for that. And they brainwash all the endos.

Let us know if your endo will prescribe T3. A lot of them don't like THAT either.

On 3/2/06, jytdtp < justyourtypedtp@... > wrote:

I wonder why Armour gets this bad reputation from... I see my endo tomorrow and know I NEED to get some T3 somehow, some way. Since I am on levoxyl, I figured the best way is to add T3 rather than completely change meds and then go from there. Now I am really confused... Boy I hate these conflicting studies... Thanks for your input.

Sue

[Guest guest]

That's great. Are you the one going to Dr. Fetchick? Or am I confused? Or possibly both, LOL. When I was first looking for a doctor to treat what I thought was a case of hypo, I considered her, but ended up with Dr. Ozan.

Hi Betsy,

<snip>

I really appreciate your input and am just amazed that so many docs won't do T3 — mine didn't even hesitate when I asked about it...

Sue

[Guest guest]

What studies? Show me one doctors' study that shows that Armour is less uniform than synthetics, and I'll show you all kinds of headlines showing how much trouble that the makers of $ynthroid got into because their product was grossly UNstable. That would also include the makers of Levoxyl (not to be prejudiced here). I believe that the makers of Unithroid are the only ones or nearly the only ones that haven't gotten in trouble for this. I can't take ALL Armour simply because, for MY body, it is too much T3 compared with the amt of T4 in it, i.e., the higher the dosing goes (even though I can get up to as much T4 as my body needs), the higher the T3 goes, and I can't tolerate that much. Whether that has to do with my adrenal glands, I do not know, but, at any rate, I can't tolerate those higher amts that it takes to get me up to enough T4. I would like to be able to show you proof that the animal thyroid (pig) actually fits better with our cellular receptors, but I don't have that on hand right now. The types of problems that I have with the Armour do not include what kind of a product it is, rather, my own personal body makeup, or whatever is going on there in my own body, that I can't take higher amts of it. Many of the people here on these sites would personally be dead now, more than likely, if it weren't for them changing to the Armour, however. It is a prescription product that has to pass a whole lot of standards, in order to be put on the market for these medical purposes. They've only had one recall in all these yrs, at least since way before I ever started taking any thyroid med. Noone can say that about any other thyroid med, except maybe the Unithroid. Most doctors who absolutely insist on ALL their patients taking Synthroid, at ALL costs, are simply parroting something that has been drilled into their heads from medical school onward. Who is giving big amts of money to universities and such, and who is giving freebies and such to doctors who constantly parrot this, even when their thyroid patients are almost at death's door, and it's grossly obvious to them, yet they still do the parroting? Pharmaceutical companies whose mostly largest sales of all forms of drugs are to us cash cow thyroid patients, and who stand to lose a whole lot of money (billions), if thyroid patients are "healed" with the right meds, namely any thyroid med that gets these patients well. And who do they use to do so? Young medical students who have learned nothing else, plus doctors are afraid to move or breathe because of the so-called "Standard of Care", for fear they will be punished by their peers for stepping out of this box that they've now been put in. Then there are some who just really don't care about getting their patients well for other reasons. Who lobbied and pushed to make sure that these certain standards of care (when it comes to certain drugs) came about? Yep, that's them. We are all put into a death box on acct of this crap, when some people's only hope may be the Armour. There are some people who do fine on the synthetics, there are those who don't, but one thing I know is that there has been a lie perpetrated on the public about the natural thyroid med being substandard, and it just isn't true. If it wasn't stable, it could not be in the category that it is today, but it's still there for that reason. Show me the actual studies.

Re: med change

I wonder why Armour gets this bad reputation from... I see my endo tomorrow and know I NEED to get some T3 somehow, some way. Since I am on levoxyl, I figured the best way is to add T3 rather than completely change meds and then go from there. Now I am really confused... Boy I hate these conflicting studies... Thanks for your input.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Yes, my endo is Dr. Fetchick — I LOVE her — she checks my hormones, my cholesterol, give massage, weight, and diet help and info/tips, works with me on the meds- I can’t recommend her more highly than so say she’s #1 in my book! I haven’t heard of Dr. Ozan, I used to see Cruz.

Sue

That's great. Are you the one going to Dr. Fetchick? Or am I confused? Or possibly both, LOL. When I was first looking for a doctor to treat what I thought was a case of hypo, I considered her, but ended up with Dr. Ozan.

Hi Betsy,

<snip>

I really appreciate your input and am just amazed that so many docs won't do T3 — mine didn't even hesitate when I asked about it...

Sue

[Guest guest]

T4 very gradually converts to T3, it's effects are not immediate, it takes time, not hours. T3, however does perform a lot in just a very short amt of time. Are you also getting a lot of rest, r & r, less stress in your life, time for you, or are you trying to perform 10 sideshows for all your family, not getting any sleep, and expecting to feel well after all of this? One thing I've learned since I had this disease---we cannot expect to be able to go on forever running a lifelong race every single day of our lives, our bodies were not built to do this. We live in a much more stressful world than our ancestors did, so we need to pull back the reins, even if it doesn't seem to be the natural thing to do. I notice that most of us on these sites seem to be overachievers (in whatEVER capacity), and we don't seem to understand that our bodies will not comply with this forever and ever. ly, I have changed my life style, at ALL costs, from what it formerly was. Now that doesn't encourage competition in the business world, and it doesn't get me any community service awards or more money, and it doesn't make brownie points with my grown kids or grandchildren, but it does accomplish, more or less, what I intended it to do, and that is to improve my stress factors, thus, my health. Thyroid patients can't continue to do life full speed ahead, mainly because we have a permanent disease, with all the trappings to go with it.

Re: med change

I took the 50 mcg of synthroid and felt a little ilke I was on speed. I am not sure what I am going to do now. When I increased the armour up to 2 1/4 gr I noticed no change. I think I will stay on the 2 1/4 armour and try 25 mcg of the t4 instead of the entire 50. how does that sound?

Also, what does suppress the TSH? IS it t4, t3 or the combination? Won't increasing t4 supp[ress it also, or is it just the combination???

thanks

steph

[Guest guest]

Dr. Ozan is family practice, not an endo. He's still my primary care physician.On 3/2/06, jytdtp <justyourtypedtp@...

> wrote:

Yes, my endo is Dr. Fetchick — I LOVE her — she checks my hormones, my cholesterol, give massage, weight, and diet help and info/tips, works with me on the meds- I can't recommend her more highly than so say she's #1 in my book! I haven't heard of Dr. Ozan, I used to see Cruz.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Armour gets the bad reputation from the

drug company that makes Synthroid sending doctors (especially endos) and their

families on week-long all expense paid vacation/Synthroid seminars where they propagate

this ridiculous notion. Synthroid is the drug that has had the most

notable problem with inconsistency in the past few years!

From:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ]

On Behalf Of jytdtp

Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006

11:01 AM

To:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re:

med change

I wonder why Armour gets this bad reputation from