Re: Re: Fructose (was Sugar Consumption Post-Workout - Any Benefit?)

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>I have often

>wondered why WAPF doesn't have more in the way of dieticians, MDs

>and nutritionists on hand. I mean, if the message is reasonable,

>why aren't there more people with the proper background touting it?

Dieticians and nutritionists, at least in some states, can be stripped of

their licenses to practice for deviating from the very specific

recommendations officially endorsed by their field. MDs have somewhat more

flexibility, though even they're in pretty serious danger. But WAPF is

affiliated with quite a number. My understanding is that the Wise

Traditions conferences are usually pretty thick with MDs, and of course

Enig is a PhD in lipid science.

Here's the list of featured speakers this year:

Cannell, MD, President, Vitamin D Council, on the role of vitamin D in

human nutrition

Tom Cowan, MD, author of The Fourfold Path to Healing, on holistic cancer

treatment

Czapp and Garrick Ginzburg-Voskov on sourdough bread and noodles

Dommisse, MD, on the role of vitamin B12 in human nutrition

Eisenstein, BA, author of The Yoga of Eating, on nutrition and behavior

Enig, PhD, author of Know Your Fats, on nutrition for the cancer patient

Carol Esche, RN, ND, MA, CMA, on nutrition in schools and hospitals

Dina Falconi and Eisenstein on lacto-fermented beverages

Sally Fallon, MA, author of Nourishing Traditions, on traditional diets and

the cholesterol myths

Forster, Policy Director, Community Food Security Coalition on

nutrition in schools

Sandor Katz, author of Wild Fermentations, on lacto-fermented condiments

Kaufmann, PhD, on the myths about cholesterol and heart disease

Goldman, DDS, on new techniques for root canals

, MD, on the approach to Cancer

Langsjoen, MD, holistic cardiologist, on CoQ10 for heart disease

Mark McAfee, President, Organic Pastures Dairy, on the safety and health

benefits of raw milk

Pentti J. Nupponen, DDS, on holistic dentistry

Bill Sanda, Executive Director of the Weston A. Price Foundation

Barbara Sattler, RN, DRPH, author of Environmental Health and Nursing, on

nutrition in schools

Ron Schmid, ND, author of The Untold Story of Milk, on raw milk activism

Silkman, DDS, on holistic orthodontics

Singer, author of The Garden of Fertility , on fertility enhancement

Noel s, MD, Director CeSSIAM, Int'l Nutrition Foundation, on vitamin

A and children's health

, Esq., general counsel to the Weston A. Price Foundation, on

CODEX: Dietary Supplements,World Hunger, and Health

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[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>but I have not seen anything in the way of

>registered dieticians.

From what I've heard, though I admit I haven't looked into this in detail,

registered dieticians are stuck with the most constrictive orthodoxy of the

entire medical field.

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[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>Could a

>chapter leader or even the WAPF be liable for practicing without a

>license? I don't know.

They very well could, and they very well might if the organization gets

bigger and starts to look like a threat to industry.

Hell, as list-owner, *I* could be in for a lawsuit someday.

>WAPF has been trying to get access to a lab going, correct? I wonder

>if they will hire researchers in this event. Presently - and I

>realize the foundation is in its toddlerhood - funding for WAPF mainly

>comes from member dues and mainly goes into the conference.

That's a bit of a conundrum -- how to get enough money to do the big things

that need to be done without getting it from any compromising sources.

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[Guest guest]

Deanna-

> Enig rocks! However, didn't Sally say recently that was

>kind of bowing out of such an active role?

I didn't know about that, but it's depressing and unfortunate if perfectly

understandable and reasonable if true. The Foundation is definitely going

to need to replace her with someone every bit as respectable if Enig's not

going to be so visible and active anymore.

> RD is a more 'prestigious'

>title than certified nutritionist, I do believe.

In general, becoming an RD requires more education, so I guess the position

probably does have more prestige attached to it, but in real terms, it

shouldn't matter. Both professions are responsible for planning such

atrocities as hospital food.

>This discussion came up not so long ago when it was suggested that

> write a book. He said something like Sally wrote NT with 's

>Ph.D to give it the authority it needed, or something ( will

>correct me if I am mincing his words, in which case, I'll have to

>search the quote ;P). That is all I am getting at.

That's about the size of it. It's not that I couldn't write a book (and I

got yet another suggestion to do exactly that just today, and from just

about the strangest imaginable quarter, too) but getting it published and

taken seriously would be something else entirely.

Of course he idea that an MD (or an RD or a nutritionist) knows didly squat

about nutrition by virtue of the degree is utterly laughable, but so it goes.

>I am sure WAPF will have meaty offerings, but

>it should extend beyond one event, imho.

I agree, but where's the money going to come from?

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[Guest guest]

On 9/29/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> I have a B.A. in History (yeah, that was dumb), but I also have a

> separate 43 credits in lab sciences including cellular biology and lab

> training roughly equivalent to a biology B.S. I think. I'll reply to

> the fructose soon.

>

> Chris

Sounds to me like you ought to get that knowledge validated with a

second bachelors degree. I would suggest you check out Bears Guide:

http://www.degree.net/index.html. Fascinating info on getting

accredited degrees in non-traditional ways.

In fact, I think this is the best way to go if you hold to a

non-traditional paradigm, don't think the material you will be taught

in the classroom will add to your knowledge, yet you still want the

" validation " of an accredited degree. There are some very rigorous

programs that can be completed this way. I had at one time set up a

program where I would have taken a year from Harvard (at a distance) a

year from Yale (at a distance) but would have actually received the

degree from another school that didn't have a residency requirement.

Even MIT has a strong distance learning program, and all of them will

allow you to do your lab work locally. You can even get an accredited

doctorate this way.

I just don't think it makes economic or academic sense to pack up and

become a full time student at the expense of income or real world

experience anymore. Especially if you disagree with most of what you

are being taught.

IMO, the opportunity costs are just too high. I think I sent it to you

long ago but if you have North's article, " Advice to a would be

Scholar " I would suggest reading that again.

take care,

--

" It is no crime to be ignorant of economics,

which is, after all, a specialized discipline

and one that most people consider to be a

'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible

to have a loud and vociferous opinion on

economic subjects while remaining in this

state of ignorance. "

-- Murray Rothbard

[Guest guest]

On 9/30/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Deanna-

>

> >Could a

> >chapter leader or even the WAPF be liable for practicing without a

> >license? I don't know.

>

> They very well could, and they very well might if the organization gets

> bigger and starts to look like a threat to industry.

>

> Hell, as list-owner, *I* could be in for a lawsuit someday.

I am on one list that DOES have AMA agents (according to the owner,

who actually had to remove the names of " consultants " fro his website

because they wee being harassed) , and they don't hesitate to report

to when they think people have crossed the line. In fact the

owner regularly reminds people of this problem when people venture

into solutions or others are asking for specific advice.

Many of us on the list could be in for some serious trouble one day as

there is LOTS of advice given out coming from all corners that a

maliciously motivated person could interpret as practicing medicine

without a license.

> >WAPF has been trying to get access to a lab going, correct? I wonder

> >if they will hire researchers in this event. Presently - and I

> >realize the foundation is in its toddlerhood - funding for WAPF mainly

> >comes from member dues and mainly goes into the conference.

>

> That's a bit of a conundrum -- how to get enough money to do the big things

> that need to be done without getting it from any compromising sources.

They may have to creative. Dr. Carey Reams (the " founder " of brix)

worked his way through college by running his own lab and acting as a

consultant. Now this was for agriculture but it provided him a cover

to work and apply his biological theory of ionization to humans, where

he had equally spectacular results. However, when he focused

specifically on humans in his " retirement " , the powers that be (i.e.

the AMA) came after him.

--

" It is no crime to be ignorant of economics,

which is, after all, a specialized discipline

and one that most people consider to be a

'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible

to have a loud and vociferous opinion on

economic subjects while remaining in this

state of ignorance. "

-- Murray Rothbard

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>Gawd I hate writing on the web. Sorry for the funky quoting. So what

>type of book have you been nudged to write?

Nutrition and weight loss -- pretty much the usual.

>As you can see, membership is the big income for WAPF. If you look at

>the conference by itself (different colors for income v. expense), it

>seems as though the conference actually cost more than it brought in

>last year. So, if this is any indication of the viability of the

>conference, why have it? Answer: income for presenters/host. And

>that is fine, and so is PR. I would only hope that there will be a

>shift in time in the black for the conference, otherwise, they should

>maybe try lower key regional ones. Just my frugal $.02.

Inasmuch as the conference appears to be a major mechanism driving

membership, I disagree. And it's also a means for the foundation to

present a lot of credentialed arguments in favor of its positions. If they

get their act together and start taping the events properly, they could

even make more money selling DVDs and CDs of lectures and classes, which

could further drive memberships.

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[Guest guest]

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>They may have to creative. Dr. Carey Reams (the " founder " of brix)

>worked his way through college by running his own lab and acting as a

>consultant. Now this was for agriculture but it provided him a cover

>to work and apply his biological theory of ionization to humans, where

>he had equally spectacular results. However, when he focused

>specifically on humans in his " retirement " , the powers that be (i.e.

>the AMA) came after him.

To really begin to do what needs to be done, the WAPF (or some other

entity) would need _at minimum_ many millions of dollars per year. We need

clinical studies, we need PR experts, we need proper advertising, we need

much more extensive community outreach, we need better lobbying... the list

goes on and on, and it's all super-expensive.

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