Re: Re: Tasteless smoke and marinating tuna

[Guest guest]

At 02:59 PM 4/11/05 -0500, you wrote:

>>Thanks for the helpful suggestions and links (Pratick) regarding high

>>BP, etc.! Now, a less epic question... Has anyone ever heard of

>> " tasteless smoke " ? I hadn't, until I just bought a couple of tuna

>>steaks which had " tasteless smoke added " on the package. Is that some

>>kind of euphemism for MSG or one of its derivatives, or something

>>else I've never even heard of?

>

>Carbon monoxide treatment is sometimes used to maintain a

>pleasing bright cherry red color in raw meat of certain fish species.

>I don't know if it applies to tuna or even if the tasteless smoke

>refers to carbon monoxide.

>

>Darrell

Darrell, that sounds right. I had my own little experience with this, so

perked up at the question -

I got one of those packages too, by accident. Didn't notice it on the

package until after I got home. I got really skeered. Sounded like a

euphemism for MSG or icky preservative to me too. Meant to call the

store to ask them them what in the world " tasteless smoke " was. I mean,

really - TASTELESS smoke? If you smoke something, don't you usually

*want* to taste it?

End result was that I forgot to call the store, and the package is still

sitting in my freezer, being looked at askance every time I open the door.

So I just called the store. The guy didn't know, but he asked someone in

another store in the chain, who said that it was something that was done to

preserve the color.

Is that good, bad or indifferent? Except that it gives me images of

.... who was it? Food Lion? Soaking old meat in bleach or something and

then repackaging it because it changed the color back to look pretty and

therefore " saleable " ? Heh.

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.

[Guest guest]

tasteless smoke may very well be carbon monoxide,,, like what comes out of your

cars tail pipe, or other burning process... this is what you are warned about

when burning in an enclosed space or using certain kerosene space heaters ,,,,,

the odorless gas takes up oxygen.

It's used to create a deep orange coloring in salmon...it claims to be a

preservative of sorts, and helps with appearance as well.

Re: Re: Tasteless smoke " and marinating tuna

At 02:59 PM 4/11/05 -0500, you wrote:

>>Thanks for the helpful suggestions and links (Pratick) regarding high

>>BP, etc.! Now, a less epic question... Has anyone ever heard of

>> " tasteless smoke " ? I hadn't, until I just bought a couple of tuna

>>steaks which had " tasteless smoke added " on the package. Is that some

>>kind of euphemism for MSG or one of its derivatives, or something

>>else I've never even heard of?

>

>Carbon monoxide treatment is sometimes used to maintain a

>pleasing bright cherry red color in raw meat of certain fish species.

>I don't know if it applies to tuna or even if the tasteless smoke

>refers to carbon monoxide.

>

>Darrell

Darrell, that sounds right. I had my own little experience with this, so

perked up at the question -

I got one of those packages too, by accident. Didn't notice it on the

package until after I got home. I got really skeered. Sounded like a

euphemism for MSG or icky preservative to me too. Meant to call the

store to ask them them what in the world " tasteless smoke " was. I mean,

really - TASTELESS smoke? If you smoke something, don't you usually

*want* to taste it?

End result was that I forgot to call the store, and the package is still

sitting in my freezer, being looked at askance every time I open the door.

So I just called the store. The guy didn't know, but he asked someone in

another store in the chain, who said that it was something that was done to

preserve the color.

Is that good, bad or indifferent? Except that it gives me images of

... who was it? Food Lion? Soaking old meat in bleach or something and

then repackaging it because it changed the color back to look pretty and

therefore " saleable " ? Heh.

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.

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[Guest guest]

>tasteless smoke may very well be carbon monoxide,,, like what comes out of

your cars tail pipe, or other burning process... this is what you are warned

about when burning in an enclosed space or using certain kerosene space heaters

,,,,, the odorless gas takes up oxygen.

>

>It's used to create a deep orange coloring in salmon...it claims to be a

preservative of sorts, and helps with appearance as well.

Ha! I bet that explains why meat stays so red in my smoker. Smokers DO produce

carbon monoxide, which isn't a problem unless you breath it a lot. But it's

always weird when you cook something for a long time and it's STILL RED. It's

probably a sort of good thing in cooking ... it would prevent oxidation of the

meat.

Once exposed to the air, CO combines with oxygen to form CO2. Smokers produce

incompletely burned wood (which is why they produce smoke ... it's not quite hot

enough to REALLY burn the wood) so would give off CO, and yeah, that's probably

part of the preservative quality, tho I hadn't thought about it before. Bacteria

need oxygen to survive (many of them, anyway) and the CO would take the oxygen

out of the air.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 01:34 PM 4/11/05 -0700, you wrote:

>Ha! I bet that explains why meat stays so red in my smoker. Smokers DO

produce carbon monoxide, which isn't a problem unless you breath it a lot.

But it's always weird when you cook something for a long time and it's

STILL RED. It's probably a sort of good thing in cooking ... it would

prevent oxidation of the meat.

>

>Once exposed to the air, CO combines with oxygen to form CO2. Smokers

produce incompletely burned wood (which is why they produce smoke ... it's

not quite hot enough to REALLY burn the wood) so would give off CO, and

yeah, that's probably part of the preservative quality, tho I hadn't

thought about it before. Bacteria need oxygen to survive (many of them,

anyway) and the CO would take the oxygen out of the air.

So I can eat my tuna even though I didn't smoke it myself then, huh?

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.

[Guest guest]

of course there are a lot of 'studies " that show that many carcinogens can be

in the smoke... and you kind of hope that the 'smoker' was responsible in the

wood they use, i.e. no pesticides residue from storage areas, recycled

" civilized' wood with wood preservatives, paint, etc. .... damned if you do,

damned if you don't.

Smoking, salting and other practices came about because refrigeration/ freezing

wasn't available for most in order to keep harvests / hunting successes for a

'rainy' day...eating preserved foods was better than starving.

But with other modern alternatives, I'm not sure how great these traditional

preservation methods score in healthy eating practices. We should have the

ability to buy fresh frozen products, or at least refrigerated to maintain the

most nutrients with less degradation.

whacha think?

:-)

Re: Re: Tasteless smoke " and marinating tuna

At 01:34 PM 4/11/05 -0700, you wrote:

>Ha! I bet that explains why meat stays so red in my smoker. Smokers DO

produce carbon monoxide, which isn't a problem unless you breath it a lot.

But it's always weird when you cook something for a long time and it's

STILL RED. It's probably a sort of good thing in cooking ... it would

prevent oxidation of the meat.

>

>Once exposed to the air, CO combines with oxygen to form CO2. Smokers

produce incompletely burned wood (which is why they produce smoke ... it's

not quite hot enough to REALLY burn the wood) so would give off CO, and

yeah, that's probably part of the preservative quality, tho I hadn't

thought about it before. Bacteria need oxygen to survive (many of them,

anyway) and the CO would take the oxygen out of the air.

So I can eat my tuna even though I didn't smoke it myself then, huh?

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.

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<B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B>

<UL>

<LI><B><A

HREF= " / " >NATIVE

NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI>

<LI><B><A HREF= " http://onibasu.com/ " >SEARCH</A></B> the entire message

archive with Onibasu</LI>

</UL></FONT>

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Idol

<B>MODERATORS:</B> Heidi Schuppenhauer

Wanita Sears

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[Guest guest]

>tasteless smoke may very well be carbon monoxide,,,

If you Google " tasteless smoke " this item comes up second on the list:

" In the last few years we have unfortunately seen an increasing proliferation of

fish processed by what has come to be known as the Tasteless Smoke Process. In

particular lots of treated tuna are sold both to restaurants and retail stores.

Tasteless smoke is a process whereby filtered, odorless and colorless smoke

(carbon monoxide) is applied to the fish, resulting in an altered color which

does not fade or change with temperature or aging. "

http://www.coastalseafoods.com/tasteless.htm

Bruce

[Guest guest]

Re: Re: Tasteless smoke " and marinating tuna

>

>>tasteless smoke may very well be carbon monoxide,,,

>

> If you Google " tasteless smoke " this item comes up second on the list:

>

> " In the last few years we have unfortunately seen an increasing

> proliferation of

> fish processed by what has come to be known as the Tasteless Smoke

> Process. In

> particular lots of treated tuna are sold both to restaurants and retail

> stores.

>

> Tasteless smoke is a process whereby filtered, odorless and colorless

> smoke

> (carbon monoxide) is applied to the fish, resulting in an altered color

> which

> does not fade or change with temperature or aging. "

> http://www.coastalseafoods.com/tasteless.htm

>

> Bruce

The biggest problem with carbon monoxide treatment is the consumer has no

idea how fresh the seafood is. Color is a great indicator of freshness. At

least it used to be.

-Terry

[Guest guest]

>Smoking, salting and other practices came about because refrigeration/ freezing

wasn't available for most in order to keep harvests / hunting successes for a

'rainy' day...eating preserved foods was better than starving.

You know, I really don't know. I HAVE heard " smoke " has carcinogens, but I've

also heard that most of them come from proteins hitting hot coals, which is why

I use a water smoker (the meat juices hit the water, not coals). I figure that

if we have SO adapted to wood smoke that we have an innate taste for it, it

can't be TOO bad. I mean, humans have been eating food roasted over campfires

for oh, 50,000 years or so. And I do know that my wood is pesticide free.

>But with other modern alternatives, I'm not sure how great these traditional

preservation methods score in healthy eating practices. We should have the

ability to buy fresh frozen products, or at least refrigerated to maintain the

most nutrients with less degradation.

Frozen stuff is great, and fermented stuff is even better. The " preserved " stuff

I'm not sure on ... the numbers are skewed by the fact that almost all of the

" modern " stuff is loaded with nitrates, which likely are NOT good, esp. if you

have low stomach acid. However, most farmers give their cattle and goats " salt

licks " and give them all the salt they want. If you don't they get sick. So I

figure animals need salt, humans included. Personally I tend to crave a LOT of

it sometimes, esp. when the Sjogren's stuff was bad, so I figure it was a

self-medicating thing.

However, as to smoke ... humans lived by campfires, in smoky teepees, in smoky

huts, in smoky caves. For thousands of years, til about 50 years ago. It might

be a bad thing, like mold can be, but it's a bad thing we've been living with

for a long time. I tend to work on the " the longer it's been used, the better "

principle (which is sort of the foundation for NT, after all), and also on how

it makes me feel. Smoked foods don't have any effect on me that I can tell,

except they taste good. Grain foods make me sick. So that is my criteria.

Everyone else has to make their own decision.

Also, interestingly, it has been discovered lately that smoke has an ingredient

that causes some seeds to sprout, because the seeds are adapted to sprouting

after a fire. I wonder of something in us is adapted to smoke too? We certainly

desire it ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>So I can eat my tuna even though I didn't smoke it myself then, huh?

>

>

>MFJ

Eh, with tuna I'd worry more about the mercury ... I don't think CO is a health

risk as far as making meat red, tho like others have said it might mask the fact

the meat is old. I can't say as I've ever SEEN such a thing around here though.

I don't buy smoked stuff much because it is just so pricey, and so easy to make,

and also they tend to add stuff like soy sauce, which I can't have.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the input, folks! I had more-or-less figured out that they

must be talking about carbon monoxide, but appreciate the

confirmation.

After all that, the tuna itself was sort of anticlimactic... I

overcooked it, so it was dry. That's about what I can say for it. And

due to the mercury issues, I won't be having fresh tuna again any

time real soon, so... oh, well! :-)

But it's interesting the lengths the corporate guys go to, to

euphemize things like CO... " tasteless smoke. " Ha. That's pretty

tasteless! ;-)

Tom

[Guest guest]

> it's interesting the lengths the corporate guys go to, to

> euphemize things like CO... " tasteless smoke. " Ha. That's pretty

> tasteless! ;-)

>

I can see how they might justify using that name though. Carbon monoxide is a

component of smoke and it is tasteless, though I doubt the carbon monoxide they

use if from natural sources.

Bruce