Calling all dairy experts

[Guest guest]

I am hoping someone can help unravel the complexities of my sons

dairy allergy.

I know with dairy allergy you are allergic to either lactose or

caesin or both. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.) I want to

determine which one he is allergic to and whether there are any

dairy products at all that he can consume. There aren't many NT

recipies which don't call for dairy in one form or another.

Is there a list anywhere on the web which lists major dairy products

and what they contain, lactose or caesin?

I have separated yoghurt in to whey and cream cheese a few times.

When I am doing this am I effectively separating the two allergens?

If so, which product contains which allergen? I know DS is

definately allergic to the cream cheese (his face blew up like a

balloon when he smeared it all over himself once) but I don't know

about the whey.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Guest guest]

>I know with dairy allergy you are allergic to either lactose or

>caesin or both. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.) I want to

>determine which one he is allergic to and whether there are any

>dairy products at all that he can consume. There aren't many NT

>recipies which don't call for dairy in one form or another.

I don't know any way to tell except via stool or saliva test.

If he had IgA antibodies to casein, then he has an immune

reaction to casein ( " allergy " ). Lactose, on the other hand,

can just be hard to digest, it's a sugar though, so one isn't

usually allergic to it. My symptoms of casein reaction are

mainly that I get migraines, but I don't get them right after

I eat it, and I don't get them every time I eat it. The only

reliable symptom otherwise is that I get very cold a few hours

after eating it. However, cutting out ALL dairy, I've been migraine

free for over a year now.

If he has obvious symptoms, it might be easier to tell though.

Folks with lactose intolerance can digest it if they take lactaid

with the milk. So if his symptoms go away with lactaid, then it

was probably the lactose that was the problem.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Pratick-

>I don't know if lactose is an allergen in the same way as casein is.

Technically speaking, it's not possible to be allergic to anything but

proteins. Lactose is a disaccharide, and lactose-intolerance is the

condition of not producing enough lactase, the enzyme which breaks lactose

down into its component monosaccharide sugars glucose and galactose. The

intestinal discomfort, flatulence and diarrhea which follow from drinking

milk or otherwise consuming lactose when you're lactose-intolerant result

from microbial overgrowth and dysbiosis -- organisms in your gut are

consuming the lactose instead of you metabolizing it yourself. Those

symptoms are generally temporary, because once the lactose is gone there's

no more fuel for errant microbes and your gut can reassert its normal

equilibrium, but lactose-intolerant people can do more enduring damage to

themselves by persisting to consume lactose.

-

[Guest guest]

Again, I'm no expert ! My son is very allergic to cows milk, so

I do have some experience in this area. There are MANY different

proteins in cows milk & anyone can be allergic to any of the various

proteins. Casein IS the most common, but the others shouldnt be

dismissed. My son is allergic to the whey portion only. If milk

barely touches his skin he swells up from head to toe in hives, if

he ingests a sip he vomits immediately.

Recently his allergy has been less severe, but if he gets a little

butter or cheese (which do not contain whey) he doesnt show an

immediate reaction. He does have massive diarrhea the following day

though, so I am assuming from that there are still traces of whey

present that are making there way into his digestive tract & doing

their damage there. IMO there is no way to truly separate the

proteins to a sufficient level of safety in the case of a true

allergy. Our allergist told us to avoid all traces of all milk

proteins, regardless of specific allergy due to cross-contamination.

This applies even to medical-grade lactose found in medicines (esp

homeopathic ones!). He had a bad reaction to a dairy-free probiotic

pill once & after calling the company I found that it was in fact

cultured with dairy, then washed to remove & labeled " dairy-free "

even though they admitted that trace proteins were probably still

present. I say this only to stress the level of contamination in

many things. If you see a reaction & cant figure out where its

coming from, reexamine the things you assumed to be dairy free.

Now, I also think it is relatively easy to be dairy free & still NT.

Not all traditional peoples consumed milk...just give N & PD a read!

My son is doing really well since we started eating this way & I'm

sure he will outgrow his allergy soon enough. Until then, we are

doing all the other stuff & many alternatives, I ferment without the

whey. Sally has a recipe for a coconut milk tonic in her EFLF book

that states its great for those who cannot obtain or are allergic to

raw milk... I can attest that it has been a wonderful thing for us,

he was drinking icky rice milk before & not doing so well on it.

(but will not give up his beloved " milk " drink!)

I am on a mission right now to make homemade coconut milk ice cream

totally dairy-free for his third birthday next month. Sounds

delicious & lots of people do it, glad I discovered this coconut

thing!

If you ever need help along the way with substitutions, etc just

give a holler! It seems overwhelming at first, but it can be done.

When I first read NT I dismissed it & tucked it away thinking it

could never be done b/c it was so " milk-heavy " . Glad I came back to

it in time.

We also discovered thru trial that goat milk was just as risky.

Allergist told us not to bother since all but one protein are so

similar they cross-react. If you are allergic to that 1 protein,

then you can tolerate goats' milk, otherwise forget it. Well, we

decided to try raw goats milk anyway & sure enough... massive

swelling & hives from just skin exposure. Everything is a learning

experience!! (and extra info here... you can have skin tests done

for specific proteins in cows milk if its a true IgE allergy, thats

how we know for certain he is allergic to the whey!)

HTH-

T.

--- In , " " <parnham@w...>

wrote:

>

> I am hoping someone can help unravel the complexities of my sons

> dairy allergy.

>

> I know with dairy allergy you are allergic to either lactose or

> caesin or both. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.) I want

to

> determine which one he is allergic to and whether there are any

> dairy products at all that he can consume. There aren't many NT

> recipies which don't call for dairy in one form or another.

>

> Is there a list anywhere on the web which lists major dairy

products

> and what they contain, lactose or caesin?

>

> I have separated yoghurt in to whey and cream cheese a few times.

> When I am doing this am I effectively separating the two

allergens?

> If so, which product contains which allergen? I know DS is

> definately allergic to the cream cheese (his face blew up like a

> balloon when he smeared it all over himself once) but I don't know

> about the whey.

>

> Thanks in advance for your help.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Now, I also think it is relatively easy to be dairy free & still NT.

> Not all traditional peoples consumed milk...just give N & PD a read!

> Sally has a recipe for a coconut

> milk tonic in her EFLF book that states its great for those

> who cannot obtain or are allergic to raw milk...

Pardon my depressed and foggy brain tonight, (milk allergy among other

miserable reasons,) but so many words are spelled out in this informative

post except the information I most want to know. I even looked in the files

here for a dictionary of abbreviations.

Please, what is N & PD and EFLF?

Over time, it is quite natural that nutrition groups will go the way of so

many other organizations that develop their own jargon. While it makes

exchanging ideas quicker it also has the surely unintended effect of leaving

outsiders, well, outside. It would be helpful to the cause of good health to

keep things as popular as possible?

Thanks and sorry I'm so crabby tonight, ~Robin

[Guest guest]

>Please, what is N & PD and EFLF?

>

>Over time, it is quite natural that nutrition groups will go the way of so

>many other organizations that develop their own jargon. While it makes

>exchanging ideas quicker it also has the surely unintended effect of leaving

>outsiders, well, outside. It would be helpful to the cause of good health to

>keep things as popular as possible?

>

>Thanks and sorry I'm so crabby tonight, ~Robin

N & PD: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration ... Price's book, on which much of

what

we talk about is based.

EFLF: Eat fat, lose fat, Sally Fallon's new book

Jargon: I agree, we need a list of " this list's jargon " .

Foggy brain: me too! Sinusitis, interestingly, seems to have the

same effect on me as eating gluten or casein, and I've

been mad at EVERYONE today. So watch out!

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> >Thanks and sorry I'm so crabby tonight, ~Robin

>

> N & PD: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration ... Price's book,

> on which much of what we talk about is based.

>

> EFLF: Eat fat, lose fat, Sally Fallon's new book

>

> Jargon: I agree, we need a list of " this list's jargon " .

>

> Foggy brain: me too! Sinusitis, interestingly, seems to have

> the same effect on me as eating gluten or casein, and I've

> been mad at EVERYONE today. So watch out!

> Heidi Jean

Thanks Heidi, Despite your madness, you are a peach!

~Robin

Ps. Tomorrow has just GOT to be better..

[Guest guest]

Hi Steph,

Thanks for your reply.

I guess I'll keep my son off all dairy. I guess I was really trying

to find out if I could use whey in preserved products (sauerkraut

etc). I guess I'll just use the salt methods. I also wanted to try

him on Kefir but I guess that one will be out.

Plus every vegetable recipe in NT says to " fry it in butter " . I'll

guess I'll stick to oils.

Do you think you could share the Coconut milk tonic from EFLF

please? It costs a fortune to get Sally's books here in Australia

and the library doesn't have it available. I'll have to track down

N & PD too to read.

I've given up baking for my son entirely as he is allergic to wheat

and eggs as well as dairy so I haven't found much left he can eat.

Cheers,

>

> Again, I'm no expert ! My son is very allergic to cows milk,

so

> I do have some experience in this area. There are MANY different

> proteins in cows milk & anyone can be allergic to any of the

various

> proteins. Casein IS the most common, but the others shouldnt be

> dismissed. My son is allergic to the whey portion only. If milk

> barely touches his skin he swells up from head to toe in hives, if

> he ingests a sip he vomits immediately.

> >

[Guest guest]

,

>Hi Steph,

>

>Thanks for your reply.

>

>I guess I'll keep my son off all dairy. I guess I was really trying

>to find out if I could use whey in preserved products (sauerkraut

>etc). I guess I'll just use the salt methods. I also wanted to try

>him on Kefir but I guess that one will be out.

>

Sauerkraut, kimchi and all those fermented foods are actually better

without whey, ime. Whey makes it mushy. Oh, and when you have a batch

of kimchi, kraut or whatnot in the frig, you can use some of the juice

to add to the new batch to ensure good lacto-bacterial growth. It works

great.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

First of all, sorry for my " jargon " everyone!! Guess I get lazy

or assume too much sometimes!

I second the fermenting without whey tastes better, at least for

fermented veggies. I've had great success with everything I've

done.

In place of milk kefir, give water kefir a try. That is what I give

my son. I originally tried using milk kefir grains (that had been

washed & soaked in 2 rounds of fresh water) to kefir sugar water per

Dom's site. My son still reacted, so I obtained real water kefir

grains & he drinks that daily with no problems. (along with kombucha

tea)

Also, I understand what you mean about limiting diets. My son was

also severely allergic to eggs up until 9 months ago. We were egg

free from 6 months (me for breastmilk contamination) then him until

he was 2 1/2, when we tried duck eggs. There are many things you can

use to replace eggs in baking, so dont give up on it completely. It

takes some practice but it can be done! He is also gluten-

intolerant, so I realize it gets sticky when you have so many things

to avoid. It takes alot of time to feel like you have mastered it

(if that ever really happnes?), but your capabilities will expand

over time & you will find yourself with more than enough things to

make & less time to actually do them!! My 4 year old daughter had

a peanut allergy & we have avoided ALL nuts for the past 3 years as

well, those possibilities are finally opening up for us, she is

undergoing a peanut challenge this week & has passed so far!! Yippee.

Now then, here is the coconut milk tonic from Sally's Eat Fat Lose

Fat book:

" Our coconut milk tonic contains the same amount of calories and

calcium as milk. It's an excellent substitute if you can't obtain

raw milk or are allergic to milk. "

1 can whole coconut milk

2 1/4 cups water

2 tbsp maple syrup

1 tsp vanilla extract (I usually leave this out for everyday

consumption)

1 tsp dolomite powder (available online or at vitamin shoppe, very

cheap)

Mix all ingredients together in a medium saucepan over medium-low

heat, and heat until warm and dolomite is dissolved.

If you find that he tolerates coconut well, you might want to invest

in the book. I purchased it only for the awesome recipes with

coconut products instead of dairy, no one here needs any weight

loss! The coconut milk hot cocoa is so good I dont even miss dairy

sometimes

I'm making the coconut ice cream tomorrow, hope it turns out

yummy!! (that recipe wasnt from the book, found it online)

Most of her recipes in this book offer butter OR her oil blend for

sauteing. Here it is if you are interested:

1 cup coconut oil, gently melted

1 cup expeller-expressed or cold-pressed sesame oil

1 cup extra virgin olive oil

Mix all ingred together in a glass jar, cover tightly, and store at

room temperature.

She says it can be used in salad dressing, mayo, or for cooking.

HTH

T.

> ,

>

> >Hi Steph,

> >

> >Thanks for your reply.

> >

> >I guess I'll keep my son off all dairy. I guess I was really

trying

> >to find out if I could use whey in preserved products (sauerkraut

> >etc). I guess I'll just use the salt methods. I also wanted to

try

> >him on Kefir but I guess that one will be out.

> >

> Sauerkraut, kimchi and all those fermented foods are actually

better

> without whey, ime. Whey makes it mushy. Oh, and when you have a

batch

> of kimchi, kraut or whatnot in the frig, you can use some of the

juice

> to add to the new batch to ensure good lacto-bacterial growth. It

works

> great.

>

>

> Deanna

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>1 can whole coconut milk

>2 1/4 cups water

>2 tbsp maple syrup

>1 tsp vanilla extract (I usually leave this out for everyday

>consumption)

>1 tsp dolomite powder (available online or at vitamin shoppe, very

>cheap)

OK, I just tried this, only without the dolomite or the cooking.

What a great idea! It has the " filling " power of milk, and you can

keep it in the fridge, and it's just so EASY. If you pour 1 can

of coconut milk into a 1 quart container, and fill the rest up

with water, it works out perfect (same as measurements above).

I tried it as is, then added a tad more maple syrup and cardamom.

Yummy. It *would* make great hot chocolate or Thai Ice Tea too.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Yes, its super tasty warm. Especially with cocoa powder added for

hot cocoa, though Sally's recipe for hot cocoa doesnt dilute with as

much water.

I think the only reason for heating is to dissolve the dolomite, so

if you arent using that its better unheated. I tend to not warm mine

enough & the dolomite still seperates.

Glad everyone is enjoying it!

>

> >1 can whole coconut milk

> >2 1/4 cups water

> >2 tbsp maple syrup

> >1 tsp vanilla extract (I usually leave this out for everyday

> >consumption)

> >1 tsp dolomite powder (available online or at vitamin shoppe,

very

> >cheap)

>

> OK, I just tried this, only without the dolomite or the cooking.

> What a great idea! It has the " filling " power of milk, and you can

> keep it in the fridge, and it's just so EASY. If you pour 1 can

> of coconut milk into a 1 quart container, and fill the rest up

> with water, it works out perfect (same as measurements above).

>

> I tried it as is, then added a tad more maple syrup and cardamom.

> Yummy. It *would* make great hot chocolate or Thai Ice Tea too.

>

>

> Heidi Jean