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Re: Digest Number 3929

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In a message dated 3/17/2003 12:15:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

> Message: 14

> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 03:21:37 -0000

> From: " Kathy Winters " <rwinters@...>

> Subject: Re: Tammy-going no mail

>

> <snowyowlstar@w...> wrote:

>

Good Luck, Tammy!

Anne

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  • 2 years later...
Guest guest

Hi Amy! You wrote.......

more questions...I am on pg 144 of the enzymes and autism book right

now...I was going to go ahead and order some of the houston

products....which ones to start with???...The AFP or not and the HN or

not.... this book reads like . I am doing this elim diet and

everything i introduce he seems to be affected by... how can chick-

peas be unhealthy??!! I think at the very least I want to give

enzymes a try. My dh and I argue about the diet all the time- we even

argued tonight about arguing about it.....very frustrated... I have had

similar problems....can you let dh read the book first? Would he... The diet

isn't fun and it isn't easy or cheap.... Many of the things that are supposed

to be healthy....my kids couldn't tolerate either because of allergies...and

high phenol levels....we have had to go with low phenols and

salicyclates....it has made a tremendous difference...but it isn't

easy......and I guess that

is the key...it works.... Many of the health foods just don't work with

these kids.... mine can't have yogurt or beans or zuccini or broccoli or a lot

of

the goodies that are supposed to be good for you...including soy and

corn....it makes no sense to me...cuz when I read the Bible it says that

certain

foods are good for the body and my kids can't have any of em....and that is

sad...but I know this plan works....we are just gonna start the enzymes next

week

and hoping to be able to add more variety to our meals....keep on

trying.....and try to work withd dh somehow....you need his support....it is

much

easier than without.....but I have done without it ...until my dh figured out i

was right...

Keep your chin up and keep at it.....you are on the right

track....unfortunately it isn't always an easy one.

ronni

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  • 1 month later...

>>One could say the same of the decision on the mother's part, since it

is the baby's body ultimately on the line. The differnece between

such a decision and that of leaving your child in a car on a hot day

for a couple hours is essentially one of degree.

Not quite. Obviously, the latter is an immediate and irredeemable death

sentence, and the former may damage some while not having so great an effect on

others, and also may be healed in time. And the act of shutting the door

involves no suffering on the mother's part.

For some women, breastfeeding involves continuous suffering for a period of

time, and it can stress the system even when it's gotten easier. I went into

preganancy robustly healthy and ate as well as I could while nursing but still

had some dreadful experiences.

This isn't a perfect analogy by a long shot, but a man bitching women out for

not breastfeeding is sort of like women insisting that men must go to war cause

it's necessary to insure security and resources for the children - regardless of

the individual man's beliefs, experiences, mental/ physical/emotional state,

etc. It's really not my job to tell a man to just suck it up, quit being such a

fricken spineless baby, and get in that foxhole.

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On 9/15/05, Mati Senerchia <senerchia@...> wrote:

> Not quite. Obviously, the latter is an immediate and irredeemable death

> sentence, and the former may damage some while not having so great an effect

> on others, and also may be healed in time. And the act of shutting the door

> involves no suffering on the mother's part.

>

> For some women, breastfeeding involves continuous suffering for a period of

> time, and it can stress the system even when it's gotten easier. I went

> into preganancy robustly healthy and ate as well as I could while nursing

> but still had some dreadful experiences.

>

> This isn't a perfect analogy by a long shot, but a man bitching women out

> for not breastfeeding is sort of like women insisting that men must go to

> war cause it's necessary to insure security and resources for the children -

> regardless of the individual man's beliefs, experiences, mental/

> physical/emotional state, etc. It's really not my job to tell a man to just

> suck it up, quit being such a fricken spineless baby, and get in that

> foxhole.

Right but you're taking a single tongue-in-cheek sentence and assumign

it to encapsulate 's entire view, when I believe the view he has

expressed more extensively in the past is more sensible than the

caricature that would be derived from an isolated tongue-in-cheek

statement.

I can't speak for , but I will say that quite clearly there are a

variety of problems mothers face in breastfeeding a child, and there

is an *enormous* difference between opting for formula because one

simply cannot produce enough milk, or cannot produce the milk without

other complications, etc, and opting for formula out of, say,

convenience. The issue is clearly complex. On the other hand,

formula is clearly overused, and the mothers (and fathers) DO in fact

bear responsiblity for how they feed and treat their children!

It isn't a gender issue. A father who fails to support his partner in

such a way to enable her to provide the best nourishment for their

baby is just as culpable as the mother.

Chris

--

Statin Drugs Kill Your Brain

And Cause Transient Global Amnesia:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Statin-Drugs-Side-Effects.html

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,

I'm sorry not to know, but are you married with kids? A

grandfather? Uncle? Remember being nursed? Remember NOT being

nursed?

I'm just trying to put your comments in context.

Connie H.

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Chris-

>

> >I can't speak for , but I will say that quite clearly there

are a

> >variety of problems mothers face in breastfeeding a child, and

there

> >is an *enormous* difference between opting for formula because one

> >simply cannot produce enough milk, or cannot produce the milk

without

> >other complications, etc, and opting for formula out of, say,

> >convenience. The issue is clearly complex. On the other hand,

> >formula is clearly overused, and the mothers (and fathers) DO in

fact

> >bear responsiblity for how they feed and treat their children!

>

> I think it's important to distinguish between the likes of Enfamil

and a

> breast milk replacement of the sort WAPF recommends preparing at

home if

> needed. And regardless of the motivations, a mother feeding her

baby

> something like Enfamil will do that baby serious harm. The exact

nature

> and degree of the harm will depend on a lot of factors (including

whether

> the formula is soy-based or milk-based) but a significant measure

of harm

> is inevitable. Ignorance is certainly behind many decisions to

use

> formula, but that has no bearing on the amount of harm done.

>

>

>

>

> -

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,

So many of your statements discomfort, discourage, dismay me. I am

hoping to find a way to be able to accept what you say within a

context of who you are and what your personal experiences have

been.

I happen to agree that breast milk is best and that canned formulas

are not healthy. But I see it as a tragedy for all concerned where

as you are willing to use the word " evil " towards those mothers who

for whatever reason (including ignorance?) use store bought

formulas. This is such a huge gap that I'm trying, at least in my

own mind, to figure out why you might do that. I do know that you

have not personally nursed a baby. But what personal experience do

you have? Is this all theory for you?

Connie Hampton (not Brown) I'm not trying to be argumentative or

abrasive, just really curious.

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Connie-

>

> >I'm sorry not to know, but are you married with kids? A

> >grandfather? Uncle? Remember being nursed? Remember NOT being

> >nursed?

> >I'm just trying to put your comments in context.

>

> What does any of this have to do with what I said? Which, in the

interest

> of convenience, I'll reproduce here:

>

> I think it's important to distinguish between the likes of Enfamil

and

> a breast milk replacement of the sort WAPF recommends preparing

at home

> if needed. And regardless of the motivations, a mother feeding

her baby

> something like Enfamil will do that baby serious harm. The exact

nature

> and degree of the harm will depend on a lot of factors (including

> whether the formula is soy-based or milk-based) but a significant

measure

> of harm is inevitable. Ignorance is certainly behind many

decisions to use

> formula, but that has no bearing on the amount of harm done.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

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--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Connie-

> > But what personal experience do

> >you have? Is this all theory for you?

>

> I object quite strongly to the notion that personal experience is

required

> for " real " knowledge, though as I said, for all you know I'm a

nursing

> mother of three, as I'm pretty sure we haven't met.

>

>

>

>

> -

I said nothing about " real " knowledge. But just as communication is

less than 10% the words and the rest in tone of voice, body

language, context, etc., conversation on a board like this one

relies on context and previous posts to be able to understand what

someone is attempting to communicate. The " merits " of a statement

can be completely mis-judged without context as you have been

arguing yourself. For me, although perhaps not for you, the context

includes personal/life experience. Your choice to say that you

might well be " a nursing mother of three " rather than to actually

answer the question honestly gives me all the context I need. Too

bad, sometimes you have said interesting things.

Connie H.

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Hi ,

I agree with you that you don't have to have personal experience to

have real knowledge. I know about a lot of things that I've

researched and just used common sense about but have not had

personal experience about them. But if you notice, if you don't have

a degree, people don't listen to you!

Judy

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Connie-

>

> >So many of your statements discomfort, discourage, dismay me. I am

> >hoping to find a way to be able to accept what you say within a

> >context of who you are and what your personal experiences have

> >been.

>

> I'm sorry you feel that way, but my statements stand (or fall) on

their own

> merits.

>

> >as you are willing to use the word " evil " towards those mothers

who

> >for whatever reason (including ignorance?) use store bought

> >formulas. This is such a huge gap that I'm trying

>

> Actually, I think the only true evil is the lack of a sense of

humor.

>

> >I do know that you

> >have not personally nursed a baby.

>

> How do you know I'm not actually a mother using " " as a

pseudonym?

>

> > But what personal experience do

> >you have? Is this all theory for you?

>

> I object quite strongly to the notion that personal experience is

required

> for " real " knowledge, though as I said, for all you know I'm a

nursing

> mother of three, as I'm pretty sure we haven't met.

>

>

>

>

> -

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,

I agree, that's why I won't listen to any of them! Just think, if

doctors knew how to heal people there wouldn't be so many deaths from

drugs and surgeries! But then, it's not about healing, it's about

money.

Judy

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Judy-

>

> >But if you notice, if you don't have

> >a degree, people don't listen to you!

>

> Yeah, which is ironic, since MDs and nutritionists and dieticians

and the

> like sure have crappy educations in nutrition!

>

>

>

>

> -

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Ron,

They call it brainwashing! The media does a good job of it. You may

want to educate yourself on health instead of sickness. Be more like

the minority who believes in natural healing, that is the only

healing!

Judy

>

> > >But if you notice, if you don't have

> > >a degree, people don't listen to you!

> >

> > Yeah, which is ironic, since MDs and nutritionists and

> > dieticians and the

> > like sure have crappy educations in nutrition!

> >

>

> This is absolutely ridiculous but I find even my relatively

knowledgeable

> self succumbing in a big way. I am really able to listen to the

experiences

> of others as relayed here on the Internet. In fact, I tend to

prefer that

> kind of information at this point. But if you've written a book

or hold

> yourself up as some kind of professional I mentally,

uncontrollably default

> to the guys with degrees in spite of myself. Just nuts. Bad

programming.

>

> Ron

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