Can I make raw-milk yogurt with whey?

January 5, 2005

In Nourishing Traditions, the recipe for yogurt calls for using some

commercial yogurt as a starter. My daughter cannot tolerate any processed

milk products, so I was wondering if I could use whey from raw milk to

somehow start the culturing process? If so, how would I go about doing

that? There is a WAP chapter about twenty miles away, which I could appeal

to for some raw milk yogurt if that is the only way to make it.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Canfield

-God grades on the cross, not on the curve. -Anonymous

3:36: " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that

believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. "

January 5, 2005

[] In Nourishing Traditions, the recipe for yogurt calls for using some

commercial yogurt as a starter. My daughter cannot tolerate any processed

milk products, so I was wondering if I could use whey from raw milk to

somehow start the culturing process? If so, how would I go about doing

that? There is a WAP chapter about twenty miles away, which I could appeal

to for some raw milk yogurt if that is the only way to make it.

[MAP] The short answer is " No, it won't work; just use some yogurt

from whatever source is convenient " .

The longer answer is also pretty short. Yogurt is defined by the

presence of two specific bacteria, Streptoccus thermophilus and

Lactobacillus bulgaricus, and may optionally include other bacteria,

and also yeasts, as a result of intentional culturing or environmental

adaptation (which in some cases would be a euphemism for

" contamination " ). Without those two specific strains of bacteria, you

might get something similar to and possibly even better than yogurt in

terms of texture, flavor, nutrition, etc, but it would be yogurt-like

fermented milk, not yogurt. For example, old-fashioned clabber--what

you get when you just leave milk to sit out and naturally

ferment--sometimes has a firm, thick, tasty curd like yogurt, although

it's usually far more fragile.

The chances of your whey naturally containing yogurt organisms are

probably similar to winning the lottery. So, yes, you could make from

yogurt using whey as a starter if you were extraordinarily lucky. The

odds might rise a little if you moved to a country village in

Bulgaria.

A note on terminology is warranted here. " whey " could mean yogurt

whey, in which case obviously it would work! " whey " is a general term

for a fraction of milk and can refer to this fraction regardless of

what type of fermentation produces it. Furthermore, whey can be

obtained through non-fermentative processes, like mechanical

separators or the acid-curdling of conventional cheese-making.

However, in this community, when we say " whey " it's usually understood

to refer to the specific kind of whey you get from clabbering milk by

letting it sit out at room temp. If you use that kind of whey to

culture your milk, you'll get... clabber! If you use kefir whey to

culture your milk, you'll get... (quasi-) kefir! If you use cultured

buttermilk whey to culture your milk, you'll get... cultured

buttermilk! If you use yogurt whey to culture your milk, you'll get...

yogurt!

[] My daughter cannot tolerate any processed milk products

[MAP] I don't have the patience to engage a dialogue and deconstruct

your reasoning on this topic, but allow me to be frank and share my

honest viewpoint here. I simply believe you have a false conclusion

on this matter and that it's likely a result of *wild*

overgeneralization. The possibility that anyone could tolerate

homemade yogurt, yet couldn't tolerate a tiny quantity of commercial

yogurt, strikes me as sheer absurdity. There are dozens of common

processes that could be applied to milk. Homemade yogurt is

processed milk. There are numerous distinctions that could be made

between commercial milk foods and NT-style milk foods, but they are

highly specific and mostly unrelated to each other.

Oh, I forgot the shortest and best answer: Yogurt? Just make kefir.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

January 5, 2005

>Thank you, that told me what I needed to know. I will contact the

>(somewhat) local WAP chapter and see if someone can share some of their

>raw milk yogurt with me to use as a starter.

As for my daughter's intolerance to processed milk products, I meant

commercially processed. I have seen her have symptoms after eating

something as innocuous as a different brand of hamburger buns, which

happened to contain whey from commercially processed milk.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Canfield

-God grades on the cross, not on the curve. -Anonymous

3:36: " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that

believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. "

January 5, 2005

[] As for my daughter's intolerance to processed milk products, I meant

commercially processed. I have seen her have symptoms after eating

something as innocuous as a different brand of hamburger buns, which

happened to contain whey from commercially processed milk.

[MAP] I was well aware that you meant commercially processed! And I

still don't believe it's true. :-)

Hamburger buns? <shudder> Nevermind...

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

January 5, 2005

From: Canfield

-----

>>In Nourishing Traditions, the recipe for yogurt calls for using some

commercial yogurt as a starter. My daughter cannot tolerate any

processed

milk products, so I was wondering if I could use whey from raw milk to

somehow start the culturing process?

---

Hi ,

The whey from raw milk is " live " and may start a clabbering process, but

this won't be yoghurt as it has a different range of bacteria. What

you could do is take a tablespoon of the least commercially-produced

yoghurt and add this to your scalded raw milk. After a couple of cycles

of yoghurt making, the " processedness " of tablespoon of commercial live

yoghurt would be pretty much gone, I would have said. Or, you might be

able to get some from fellow yoghurt-makers, or from a co-op?

If your daughter doesn't tolerate scalded raw milk (ie, if this is too

processed for her) then you may be out of luck in the yoghurt

department, as you can't make it from non-heat-treated raw milk.

But - you *can* make kefir, which doesn't need any heat treatment and

has no commercially processed anything if you can find kefir grains

locally.

Hope this helps.

OT BIT

---

>> 3:36: " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he

that

>>believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth

on him. "

---

It's funny - I'm an atheist, so why does this bother me? Someone please

explain.

Helen

(back again once more, and computer back up from a malfunction

occasioned by transferring 27,000 NT posts from one folder to another

(why oh why did I not rename the folder instead?))

--

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 30/12/2004

January 5, 2005

>>>add this to your scalded raw milk. ... If your daughter doesn't tolerate

scalded raw milk (ie, if this is too processed for her) then you may be out of

luck in the yoghurt department, as you can't make it from non-heat-treated raw

milk.<<<

What's the point of using raw milk if you're going to scald it?

Cheers,

Tas'.

" Give it to us raw and wrrrrrrrrriggling " - Smeagol, LOTR.

January 5, 2005

Would Viili be an option for her? The organisms in it are dominant

and should not drift. Viili is not very acidic at all and the child may

have fun with its viscous texture.

Darrell

January 6, 2005

> If your daughter doesn't tolerate scalded raw milk (ie, if this is too

> processed for her) then you may be out of luck in the yoghurt