Re: No really I can't believe it

[Guest guest]

At 11:35 AM 1/4/05 -0800, you wrote:

>

>The last time someone said something on my Atkins list that blew my mind so

>much I had to rant about it here, was when someone posted asking if it was

>true that there was some kind of " substitute " for Cool Whip that you made

>yourself. ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.

>

>However, I think this one is worse.

>

>Just now, someone posted asking what " calves' liver " is, and said she'd gone

>looking to buy some and was told all they had was " beef liver, " and she

>wanted to know the difference.

>

>I swear... I grew up in a city. In fact, although I live in the country now,

>I am a FOURTH GENERATION urbanite. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you

>grow up and go to school and do not know that calves are baby cows? Really,

>can someone explain it to me so my head doesn't have to explode?

>

>Christie

I can't explain it to you, but I'll be happy to wrap your head in duct tape

so you don't make quite as big a mess.

MFJ

Once, poets were magicians. Poets were strong, stronger than warriors or

kings - stronger than old hapless gods. And they will be strong once

again. ~Greg Bear

[Guest guest]

>> Are you from the AWOL list?

Remember me?

So how are things on the AWOL list now-a-days? <<

Hi, yes, I do remember you!

AWOL has gone very quiet. The busiest one I'm on is AAWOL, " Atkins a Way of

Life. " But none of my Atkins lists are at all oriented towards whole/natural

foods... there are a few of us, but not many.

Christie

[Guest guest]

Christie,

I have been searching for an answer to that my whole life! LOL As far

as I can figure, most people have so many problems using their brains

that it is a wonder they don't just explode when thinking is

necessary! And I am amazed that we can so successfully teach people to

not walk into a busy street!

Geessh!

Catz

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:35:31 -0800, Christie

<christiekeith@...> wrote:

> The last time someone said something on my Atkins list that blew my mind so

> much I had to rant about it here, was when someone posted asking if it was

> true that there was some kind of " substitute " for Cool Whip that you made

> yourself. ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.

>

> However, I think this one is worse.

>

> Just now, someone posted asking what " calves' liver " is, and said she'd gone

> looking to buy some and was told all they had was " beef liver, " and she

> wanted to know the difference.

>

> I swear... I grew up in a city. In fact, although I live in the country now,

> I am a FOURTH GENERATION urbanite. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you

> grow up and go to school and do not know that calves are baby cows? Really,

> can someone explain it to me so my head doesn't have to explode?

>

> Christie

[Guest guest]

>>>I have been searching for an answer to that my whole life! LOL As far as I

can figure, most people have so many problems using their brains that it is a

wonder they don't just explode when thinking is necessary! And I am amazed that

we can so successfully teach people to not walk into a busy street!<<<

Every now and then on the RawPaws list, we get someone who asks if canned food

is raw.

Cheers,

Tas'.

" Give it to us raw and wrrrrrrrrriggling " - Smeagol, LOTR.

[Guest guest]

>> Every now and then on the RawPaws list, we get someone who asks if canned

food is raw. <<

How do these people manage to get online in the first place?

Maybe their kids do it for them. <G>

Christie

[Guest guest]

My life in a can...it's a bit dim and hard to breath! ROLF!

Catz

> Every now and then on the RawPaws list, we get someone who asks if canned

> food is raw.

>

> Cheers,

> Tas'.

[Guest guest]

[Christie] Just now, someone posted asking what " calves' liver " is,

and said she'd gone

looking to buy some and was told all they had was " beef liver, " and she

wanted to know the difference.

I swear... I grew up in a city. In fact, although I live in the country now,

I am a FOURTH GENERATION urbanite. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you

grow up and go to school and do not know that calves are baby cows? Really,

can someone explain it to me so my head doesn't have to explode?

[MAP] Sure, I'll explain it. It's very easy to have occasional gaps

in the everyday background knowledge of medium-sized objects if you

never experience something in the foreground. I grew up in suburban

America. Until a few years ago I had never seen a cow in person and

I'm pretty sure I didn't know that calves are baby cows. I definitely

did not know that there was any relationship between veal and cows;

that was a real " aha " moment for me when I figured it out while

talking to a farmer after quite a bit of confusion. Likewise for some

months I puzzled over my observation that nobody ever talked about

sheep meat, and I started to wonder if it was taboo like horse meat

until I learned that the common word " lamb " that I had always known

actually meant sheep meat. For all I knew, lamb was just another

type of animal altogether. When I started hanging around my local

farms and getting into the WAPF thing I was confused by all the jargon

the farmers were using, like " heifer " , " calf " , etc. " cow " was the

only word I knew and used, and to be honest I like general terms, so I

still say " baby cow " , " female cow " , " milking cow " , " male cow " , etc

instead of using farm jargon. Same for sheep and goats. It's an

aesthetic preference in favor of descriptive generalizations in

terminology.

It's easy to miss basic stuff. For example, it has been less than a

year since I learned that cats and dogs give milk just like cows and

people. Growing up I just wasn't interested in this kind of nature

stuff, although now it's absolutely fascinating to me to make these

connections, so the past 2-3 years have been a 180 degree turnaround

in awareness of these domains.

Also, some people just have oblivious personalities. We are tuned

into more abstract realms instead and find the concrete world too

mundane to warrant more attention than necessary. If they tried to

teach me this stuff in school, I'm sure I just ignored them.

I hope this email reaches you in time before the anticipated cranial explosion.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

As I understand it, sheep meat is mutton. Lamb is baby sheep meat.

Irene

At 04:59 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote:

>until I learned that the common word " lamb " that I had always known

>actually meant sheep meat

[Guest guest]

[Pratick] " Beef liver " ?

That must have been a PJ.

There is no such thing

It can be cow liver, goat liver, deer liver or whatever, but beef liver?

I guess the butcher was having a joke at her expense.

[MAP] I don't have the same feeling about that. If I'm not mistaken

I think " beef liver " has even had currency on this list. Plus, the

USDA database refers to it as " beef liver " . Some people say " beef

heart " , whereas I prefer to say " cow heart " . Likewise for many other

meats. I tend to go back and forth between these various synonyms.

BTW, what's a " PJ " ? private joke maybe?

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

At 09:19 AM 1/5/05 +1100, you wrote:

>Every now and then on the RawPaws list, we get someone who asks if canned

food is raw.

Is it?

MFJ

Of the Fastest-Running from The Official RawPaws Marketing Department MFJ's

(you are just NOT gonna rest till I up to that list, are you?

[Guest guest]

<Sure, I'll explain it.>

Thank you, . I don't think children or adults can learn if their

questions are met with derision. We all have gaps in understanding that

would seem surprising to more savvy folks.

[Guest guest]

[irene] As I understand it, sheep meat is mutton. Lamb is baby sheep meat.

[MAP] Ah yes, I forgot about that. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm

not sure if " mutton " is actually used in American English though, or

if it's just a very obscure word owing to the rarity of mutton in the

American food supply. (Which is of course very sad, just like

Americans are idiots for neglecting sheep milk.) I've always thought

of it as a British term, one of those words that cause me confusion

and I rarely dwell on enough to register. In any case, for the

purposes of what I was saying earlier , lamb is still sheep meat,

because baby sheep are sheep... It would be interesting to find out

whether the American word " lamb " might actually be a conflation of the

things referred to by the British words " lamb " and " mutton " ? (I don't

know the answer, just considering the possibility.) I guess the only

way to find out is to conduct a study of a suitably large cohort of

native speakers of American English, which of course would not be

worth the trouble.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure about that one. I read somewhere that mutton is very strong

tasting and Americans just don't like it in general. But I don't really know.

Irene

At 05:23 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote:

>I've always thought

>of it as a British term, one of those words that cause me confusion

>and I rarely dwell on enough to register.

[Guest guest]

Mike-

>I'm

>not sure if " mutton " is actually used in American English though,

It is.

-

[Guest guest]

>

> <Sure, I'll explain it.>

>

> Thank you, . I don't think children or adults can learn if their

> questions are met with derision. We all have gaps in understanding that

> would seem surprising to more savvy folks.

>

>

Hey, at least they are thinking about eating liver. Most people out there

are too squeamish for that!

Kim

[Guest guest]

> the farmers were using, like " heifer " , " calf " , etc. " cow " was the

> only word I knew and used, and to be honest I like general terms, so I

> still say " baby cow " , " female cow " , " milking cow " , " male cow " , etc

> instead of using farm jargon. Same for sheep and goats. It's an

> aesthetic preference in favor of descriptive generalizations in

> terminology.

The SCOBYs guy calls it a " male cow " ?

gimme one break, please.

B.

[Guest guest]

>>>(you are just NOT gonna rest till I up to that list, are you?<<<

Nope!!!

Cheers,

Tas'.

" Give it to us raw and wrrrrrrrrriggling " - Smeagol, LOTR.

[Guest guest]

OK, MAP, if you can admit that it was easy for you to miss the basic stuff that

most of us take for granted as something that every toddler/pre-schooler learnt,

why can't you accept that some people have similar gaps when it comes to

spelling/grammar, rather than expecting everyone to be able to do it correctly.

Cheers,

Tas'.

" Give it to us raw and wrrrrrrrrriggling " - Smeagol, LOTR.

[MAP] Sure, I'll explain it. It's very easy to have occasional gaps

in the everyday background knowledge of medium-sized objects if you

never experience something in the foreground. I grew up in suburban

America. Until a few years ago I had never seen a cow in person and

I'm pretty sure I didn't know that calves are baby cows. I definitely

did not know that there was any relationship between veal and cows;

that was a real " aha " moment for me when I figured it out while

talking to a farmer after quite a bit of confusion. Likewise for some

months I puzzled over my observation that nobody ever talked about

sheep meat, and I started to wonder if it was taboo like horse meat

until I learned that the common word " lamb " that I had always known

actually meant sheep meat. For all I knew, lamb was just another

type of animal altogether. When I started hanging around my local

farms and getting into the WAPF thing I was confused by all the jargon

the farmers were using, like " heifer " , " calf " , etc. " cow " was the

only word I knew and used, and to be honest I like general terms, so I

still say " baby cow " , " female cow " , " milking cow " , " male cow " , etc

instead of using farm jargon. Same for sheep and goats. It's an

aesthetic preference in favor of descriptive generalizations in

terminology.

It's easy to miss basic stuff. For example, it has been less than a

year since I learned that cats and dogs give milk just like cows and

people. Growing up I just wasn't interested in this kind of nature

stuff, although now it's absolutely fascinating to me to make these

connections, so the past 2-3 years have been a 180 degree turnaround

in awareness of these domains.

Also, some people just have oblivious personalities. We are tuned

into more abstract realms instead and find the concrete world too

mundane to warrant more attention than necessary. If they tried to

teach me this stuff in school, I'm sure I just ignored them.

I hope this email reaches you in time before the anticipated cranial explosion.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

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[Guest guest]

> [Deb in NZ, the lands of lambs] Then just to confuse you further, there's

> hogget, which is older lambs - 1 or 2 year olds, I think. Not old enough to

> be mutton. Though when I think about it, I haven't noticed hogget for sale

> for a few years now.....

That's interesting... In the movie " Babe " the farmer's name is Hogget. I

never got the connection.

~~ Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

[Tas'] OK, MAP, if you can admit that it was easy for you to miss the

basic stuff that most of us take for granted as something that every

toddler/pre-schooler learnt, why can't you accept that some people

have similar gaps when it comes to spelling/grammar, rather than

expecting everyone to be able to do it correctly.

[MAP] I don't recall ever discussing grammatical errors, which are

extremely rare (not counting typos of course). I don't recall ever

suggesting I don't accept gaps in spelling ability, which are

extremely common and part of normal biologial variation. I don't

recall ever suggesting I expect everyone to be able to spell correctly

in the sense of " unassisted cognitive ability " , but given the

existence of readily accessible tools to assist in the text-generation

process (e.g. dictionaries, spell-checkers, etc), everyone *is* able

to do it correctly, and I don't think there's anything unreasonable

about expecting someone to do something that they are in fact able to

do and which is in fact a very desirable thing to do.

BTW, the gaps are not similar at all. If I needed to know what a calf

was or where Nebraska was or something like that, I'd look it up in a

reference text.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

[irene] As I understand it, sheep meat is mutton. Lamb is baby sheep meat.

[MAP] Ah yes, I forgot about that. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Deb in NZ, the lands of lambs] Then just to confuse you further, there's

hogget, which is older lambs - 1 or 2 year olds, I think. Not old enough to

be mutton. Though when I think about it, I haven't noticed hogget for sale

for a few years now.....

[Guest guest]

In middle school, there was a kid I knew who not only had purportedly never

consumed a cucumber, he had never even *heard* of a cucumber. Even then I

thought that was terribly sad and quite telling of his diet and his parents.

Tom

Christie wrote:

> The last time someone said something on my Atkins list that blew my mind so

> much I had to rant about it here, was when someone posted asking if it was

> true that there was some kind of " substitute " for Cool Whip that you made

> yourself. ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.

>

> However, I think this one is worse.

>

> Just now, someone posted asking what " calves' liver " is, and said she'd gone

> looking to buy some and was told all they had was " beef liver, " and she

> wanted to know the difference.

>

> I swear... I grew up in a city. In fact, although I live in the country now,

> I am a FOURTH GENERATION urbanite. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you

> grow up and go to school and do not know that calves are baby cows? Really,

> can someone explain it to me so my head doesn't have to explode?

>

> Christie

>

[Guest guest]

Anton wrote:

> Also, some people just have oblivious personalities. We are tuned

> into more abstract realms instead and find the concrete world too

> mundane to warrant more attention than necessary. If they tried to

> teach me this stuff in school, I'm sure I just ignored them.

So true. And really, every person or type of personality has many things that it

is just not tuned in to, by habit. I have an eye for detail, but that only

applies to things that catch my attention. I notice many things that most people

never do, and yet I am oblivious to many other things that most people usually

notice. The preceding sentence applies to just about any human being, with the

variables being " many things " and " many other things " .

Tom

[Guest guest]

>Also, some people just have oblivious personalities. We are tuned

>into more abstract realms instead and find the concrete world too

>mundane to warrant more attention than necessary. If they tried to

>teach me this stuff in school, I'm sure I just ignored them.

:

Sorry, but this reminds me SOO MUCH of my dear brother.

He was visiting and I offered him a dozen eggs. He said " No

way am I eating something that comes out of a chicken's butt! " .

OK, we laughed a lot, but he'd never made the connection ... til

he saw the chicken ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>I'm not sure about that one. I read somewhere that mutton is very strong

>tasting and Americans just don't like it in general. But I don't really know.

>Irene

My Mom had mutton a lot, totally against her will, to hear her tell it.

It was " cheap " food and she swore she'd never eat it again. Mind

you this is a lady who loves tongue and chicken heads, but she

hates mutton. That may be one reason it isn't sold much. That and

Scrapie.

Heidi Jean