Re: Re: New Member hitting a wall with meds

[Guest guest]

Hi, Randy! The folks with problems similar to yours are not currently online. It may be a few days before you get some replies. Welcome to the group! randogbert wrote: The finish to my novel: I dropped my 30 mg Armour dose on Wed (28th) and continued with my 50 mcg Levothroid. My muscle pain had become so severe I had to do something. I had started lifting weights and

running in Early November and it was going fantastic until I had to start spreading it out another day due to not rebounding well. Then I crashed hard in mid Dec. I got severe shoulder pain that radiated down my arm and into my hand. My arm was falling asleep during the night from the forearm to the ring and pinky fingers. It's done nothing but get worse in the 3 weeks since. It did get much better after stopping the Armour but leveled off at about 50%. I believe now the Armour has me retain water and that in combination with the muscle pumping caused nerve compression in my shoulder. In addition, the pain had now crept into my lower left leg as well. This is not unusual for me (migrating pain). My issues have always been on the left side of my body (anyone else?). I wanted to try Isocort, so I stopped the Armour. Friday (30th) I took one pill of Isocort and was amped for awhile, then had

arrhythmia from around noon until late that night (probably a skipped beat for every good beat) felt good when I finally went to sleep and woke up with a headache. This from just one pill! I've had the arrhthmia off and on ever since. I don't know if the arrhythmia is due to the Isocort or changing up the thyroid meds and I haven't had an Isocort since. I did take a tiny bit of Cytomel today (1.125mcg 2X) to see what my response would be and I think it may be making the arrhythmia better. I'm not sure where to go from here. My original plan was to take Isocort on a regular basis and add back in the Armour. I have 2 doctors monitoring me, but they both feel I've done a good job monitoring myself (pffft! ) and are accepting to me self-medicating (to a point). They know I won't do anything too stupid. Suggestions are warmly accepted. Peace and Happy New Year, Randy

Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

[Guest guest]

Randy, TSH of 2.62 is fairly normal if you have never been on thyroid meds, but if you have, a TSH of 2.62 is too high and probably suggest antibodies at work. Somebody correct me if I am wrong. M.randogbert wrote: Me again! I'm a 44 y/o male, married with two beautiful girls (6 & 8). I'm in decent shape despite the fact that I've been too sore to run and workout in awhile. I am the sole support and have my own design services consultancy. To say this ride has had an impact on my life and biz would be an understatement! I know you know this all too well. Here's the results from my last 2 labs: 09/16/2005 15mg Armour, 50 mcg Levothroid: TSH: 1.04 (.40-5.50 mIU/L) Total T4: 9.1 (4.5-12.5 ug/dL) Free T4: 1.5 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL) Total T3: 112 (60-181 ng/dL) Free T3: 3.1 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL) 10/17/05 30mg Armour, 37.5 mcg Levothroid: (different lab) TSH: .85 (.34-5.60 uIU/mL) Free T4: .90 (0.6-1.6 ng/dL) Free T3: 2.8 (2.4-4.2 pg/mL) As you can see my numbers are below mid-range, which has been normal for me regardless of the amount of replacem! ent take n. Muscle soreness has been my number one complaint since this all began and the only time I've ever felt relief there is when I've gotten the T4 replacement up to the point that it gives me major headaches. I have not been able to get any of my TT or FT numbers much above midrange since I began monitoring it 1-1/2 years ago, even with my TSH well below 1.0 and feeling

horrible. My saliva Cortisol test was as follows: Morning: 4.6 (3-8 ng/ml) Noon: 1.4 (2-4 ng/ml) Evening: 1.6 (1-2 ng/ml) Night: 0.2 (0.5-1.5 ng/ml) I've also compiled a few key notes that I've FINALLY realized might have been trying to point me to my adrenals all along: This all started one year after surgery. One month after I finally rid myself of my life's highest anxiety (had it for a year from cancer diagnosis), I got severe upper back pain along with other milder symptoms. I thought hypothyroid even tho my TSH was 2.62 (.92 before surgery) and started on TRH. Could it be my adrenals crashed? GI intolerance to the desiccated... a

possible adrenal response? In one of my trials I had 2 different pharmacies compound desiccated thyroid for me due to GI intolerance to the pills. Neither I could tolerate because of dizziness when taken. Hmmm... adrenals? Once I get above a certain dose on the meds (any combination that roughly equates to 75 mcg T4) my TSH actually tends to go UP and my T3 (and to a lesser extent T4) numbers go DOWN... and I feel crummier to boot. Huh? My T3 numbers have been the same or lower with desiccated thyroid than they have been with synth T4. DHEA-S is the lowest my doctor has seen for a male in the low 50's and I can't tolerate 5 lousy mg without losing sleep.! I do believe I'm hypothyroid as I get terrible brain fog and other problems when my TSH gets above 2.0. Feeling poor with a fairly normal TSH could be due to a sluggish pituitary. My GP thinks I'm hypopituitary due to my Testosterone taking a nose dive during the same period

as well as a low-range IGF-1 and a pathetic DHEA-S level. Pituitary feedback remains low. Too long... I'm sorry! I'm trying to give a solid history. I'll end it here and talk about most recent experience next time. Peace, Randy

[Guest guest]

I hope you are saying you stopped the Armour very slowly, just like when you started it. It is always best to start and stop most meds slowly. If you are starting a replacement, you would start it slowly at the same time you are decreasing the previous one slowly, so that they overlap. Therefore, you are not without meds inbetween different brands. M.randogbert wrote: The finish to my novel: I dropped my 30 mg Armour dose on Wed (28th) and continued with my 50 mcg Levothroid. My muscle pain had become so severe I had to do something. I had started lifting weights and running in Early November and it was going fantastic until I had to start spreading it out another day due to not rebounding well.

Then I crashed hard in mid Dec. I got severe shoulder pain that radiated down my arm and into my hand. My arm was falling asleep during the night from the forearm to the ring and pinky fingers. It's done nothing but get worse in the 3 weeks since. It did get much better after stopping the Armour but leveled off at about 50%. I believe now the Armour has me retain water and that in combination with the muscle pumping caused nerve compression in my shoulder. In addition, the pain had now crept into my lower left leg as well. This is not unusual for me (migrating pain). My issues have always been on the left side of my body (anyone else?). I wanted to try Isocort, so I stopped the Armour. Friday (30th) I took one pill of Isocort and was amped for awhile, then had arrhythmia from around noon until late that night (probably a skipped beat for every good beat) felt good when I finally went to sleep and woke up with a headache. This

from just one pill! I've had the arrhthmia off and on ever since. I don't know if the arrhythmia is due to the Isocort or changing up the thyroid meds and I haven't had an Isocort since. I did take a tiny bit of Cytomel today (1.125mcg 2X) to see what my response would be and I think it may be making the arrhythmia better. I'm not sure where to go from here. My original plan was to take Isocort on a regular basis and add back in the Armour. I have 2 doctors monitoring me, but they both feel I've done a good job monitoring myself (pffft! ) and are accepting t! o me sel f-medicating (to a point). They know I won't do anything too stupid. Suggestions are warmly accepted. Peace and Happy New Year, Randy

[Guest guest]

We are taking different drugs so I cannot compare. I was taking Armour for several years before my doc decided to check the pituitary with IGF1 which is below range. At that point, I found this group and a Hypopituitary group. I found a new doc and checked adrenals and other hormones, all low. No surprise. I am taking hydrocortisone (10mg) and am improved. I did not intrupt the Armour to start the hydrocortisone. No one seemed to think that was necessary. Good luck. M.randogbert wrote: Hi Marilyn,I dropped the Armour for a few days and did this only to initiate treatment of my adrenals with Isocort. I would like to avoid completely stopping thyroid supplementation to treat my adrenals first (which is supposed to be the proper

protocol).I have not added back in the Armour yet and may just include Cytomel as needed while working on adding Isocort. Any advise here from those who have added Cortef or Isocort while already somewhat established on thyroid replacement?Thanks, Randy>> I hope you are saying you stopped the Armour very slowly, just like when you started it. It is always best to start and stop most meds slowly. If you are starting a replacement, you would start it slowly at the same time you are decreasing the previous one slowly, so that they overlap. Therefore, you are not without meds inbetween different brands.> M.

[Guest guest]

Here's an odd thought-- have you been tested for

anemias, such as iron or B12? Some of the symptoms

you describe might be caused from not having enough of

these elements in your body to transport the new

medications. It's just a thought. There are,

literally, thousands of vitamin anemias. Your doctor

can illuminate this.

(If somebody already discussed this issue, please

excuse me-- I'm coming onto this post late.)

Best--

Courtenay.

--- Marilyn wrote:

> I hope you are saying you stopped the Armour very

> slowly, just like when you started it. It is always

> best to start and stop most meds slowly. If you are

> starting a replacement, you would start it slowly at

> the same time you are decreasing the previous one

> slowly, so that they overlap. Therefore, you are

> not without meds inbetween different brands.

> M.

>

> randogbert wrote:

>

> The finish to my novel:

> I dropped my 30 mg Armour dose on Wed (28th) and

> continued with my 50 mcg Levothroid. My muscle pain

> had become so severe I had to do something. I had

> started lifting weights and running in Early

> November and it was going fantastic until I had to

> start spreading it out another day due to not

> rebounding well. Then I crashed hard in mid Dec. I

> got severe shoulder pain that radiated down my arm

> and into my hand. My arm was falling asleep during

> the night from the forearm to the ring and pinky

> fingers. It's done nothing but get worse in the 3

> weeks since. It did get much better after stopping

> the Armour but leveled off at about 50%. I believe

> now the Armour has me retain water and that in

> combination with the muscle pumping caused nerve

> compression in my shoulder. In addition, the pain

> had now crept into my lower left leg as well. This

> is not unusual for me (migrating pain). My issues

> have always been on the left side of my body (anyone

> else?).

> I wanted to try Isocort, so I stopped the Armour.

> Friday (30th) I took one pill of Isocort and was

> amped for awhile, then had arrhythmia from around

> noon until late that night (probably a skipped beat

> for every good beat) felt good when I finally went

> to sleep and woke up with a headache. This from just

> one pill! I've had the arrhthmia off and on ever

> since. I don't know if the arrhythmia is due to the

> Isocort or changing up the thyroid meds and I

> haven't had an Isocort since. I did take a tiny bit

> of Cytomel today (1.125mcg 2X) to see what my

> response would be and I think it may be making the

> arrhythmia better.

> I'm not sure where to go from here. My original

> plan was to take Isocort on a regular basis and add

> back in the Armour. I have 2 doctors monitoring me,

> but they both feel I've done a good job monitoring

> myself (pffft! ) and are accepting t! o me sel

> f-medicating (to a point). They know I won't do

> anything too stupid.

> Suggestions are warmly accepted.

> Peace and Happy New Year, Randy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Crummy DHEA levels can make everything feel worse than

worse, and it will MOST DEFINITELY inhibit your body's

ability to absorb Armour. If you're not tolerating

the 5 mg., you might ask your doctor to prescribe the

2.5 from Women's Int'l Pharmacy (don't be scared by

the name-- they rock.) and work up from there.

When my DHEA levels were low, I could not tolerate

even the smallest levels of normal stress, and

absolutely could not absorb normal amounts of Armour.

I am highly reactive to everything, and I had horrid

problems trying to increase my Armour levels. In my

case, it turned out that I had iron anemia (blocks

thyroid drugs), very low DHEA, very low B12, and

crummy thyroid levels (worse than your most recent).

And severe reactive hypoglycemia.

Everything I tried made me want to sleep for a month,

until I saw a good doctor, went on a slow prescribed

regimen to avoid stress and correct the imbalances.

We slowly added in the Armour, Iron and DHEA. Then,

we went on to add more Armour, more DHEA, and B12.

This process is ongoing, and the increments have been

miniscule, but I feel much better.

Given your history of cancer, you know that some of

your major vitamin levels are probably depleted. You

might want to have a standard anemia panel run, if

they haven't already, and add in those things as well.

Hope this helps.

Courtenay.

--- randogbert wrote:

>

> Me again!

>

>

>

> Too long... I'm sorry! I'm trying to give a solid

> history. I'll end it here and talk about most recent

> experience next time.

>

> Peace, Randy

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Randy

Question---Do you consume soy in any form, and/or do you consume a ton of goitrogens? Do you take your thyroid med on a completely empty stomach, one hr before meals or two to three hrs afterward? Do you take calcium or iron in any form close to your thyroid meds, within/either before or after, less than 4 hrs before or after?

Re: New Member hitting a wall with meds

Me again!

I'm a 44 y/o male, married with two beautiful girls (6 & 8). I'm in decent shape despite the fact that I've been too sore to run and workout in awhile. I am the sole support and have my own design services consultancy. To say this ride has had an impact on my life and biz would be an understatement! I know you know this all too well.

Here's the results from my last 2 labs:

09/16/2005 15mg Armour, 50 mcg Levothroid:

TSH: 1.04 (.40-5.50 mIU/L) Total T4: 9.1 (4.5-12.5 ug/dL) Free T4: 1.5 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL) Total T3: 112 (60-181 ng/dL) Free T3: 3.1 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)

10/17/05 30mg Armour, 37.5 mcg Levothroid: (different lab)

TSH: .85 (.34-5.60 uIU/mL) Free T4: .90 (0.6-1.6 ng/dL) Free T3: 2.8 (2.4-4.2 pg/mL)

As you can see my numbers are below mid-range, which has been normal for me regardless of the amount of replacement taken. Muscle soreness has been my number one complaint since this all began and the only time I've ever felt relief there is when I've gotten the T4 replacement up to the point that it gives me major headaches. I have not been able to get any of my TT or FT numbers much above midrange since I began monitoring it 1-1/2 years ago, even with my TSH well below 1.0 and feeling horrible.

My saliva Cortisol test was as follows:

Morning: 4.6 (3-8 ng/ml) Noon: 1.4 (2-4 ng/ml) Evening: 1.6 (1-2 ng/ml) Night: 0.2 (0.5-1.5 ng/ml)

I've also compiled a few key notes that I've FINALLY realized might have been trying to point me to my adrenals all along:

This all started one year after surgery. One month after I finally rid myself of my life's highest anxiety (had it for a year from cancer diagnosis), I got severe upper back pain along with other milder symptoms. I thought hypothyroid even tho my TSH was 2.62 (.92 before surgery) and started on TRH. Could it be my adrenals crashed?

GI intolerance to the desiccated... a possible adrenal response?

In one of my trials I had 2 different pharmacies compound desiccated thyroid for me due to GI intolerance to the pills. Neither I could tolerate because of dizziness when taken. Hmmm... adrenals?

Once I get above a certain dose on the meds (any combination that roughly equates to 75 mcg T4) my TSH actually tends to go UP and my T3 (and to a lesser extent T4) numbers go DOWN... and I feel crummier to boot. Huh?

My T3 numbers have been the same or lower with desiccated thyroid than they have been with synth T4.

DHEA-S is the lowest my doctor has seen for a male in the low 50's and I can't tolerate 5 lousy mg without losing sleep.

I do believe I'm hypothyroid as I get terrible brain fog and other problems when my TSH gets above 2.0. Feeling poor with a fairly normal TSH could be due to a sluggish pituitary. My GP thinks I'm hypopituitary due to my Testosterone taking a nose dive during the same period as well as a low-range IGF-1 and a pathetic DHEA-S level. Pituitary feedback remains low.

Too long... I'm sorry! I'm trying to give a solid history. I'll end it here and talk about most recent experience next time.

Peace, Randy

[Guest guest]

B12 is not iron and it is OK to take with thyroid meds.randogbert wrote: Hi ,I don't purposely consume soy, although I know it is in a lot of processed foods. I take my meds on an empty stomach... the T4 that is. The Armour I was drinking throughout the day.I am careful to take calcium apart from my meds. Is B12 considered iron?What are the effects of taking soy and/or goitrogens?Thanks,Randy>> Randy> > Question---Do you consume soy in any form, and/or do you consume a ton of goitrogens? Do you take your thyroid med on a completely empty stomach,

one hr before meals or two to three hrs afterward? Do you take calcium or iron in any form close to your thyroid meds, within/either before or after, less than 4 hrs before or after?> > __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It evidently suppresses TSH as a side effect. It is a diabetic medication, however, so it must be used cautiously by non-diabetics.randogbert wrote: Jan, can you elaborate on this? What does that drug do? Does it suppress TSH as a side-effect to its current usage? Are you saying it might be a way to turn off your gland while watching your T3's and T4's and adjusting those to proper serum levels?Thanks, Randy>> I just read that metformin (Glucophage), a drug for Type II diabetics, tends to suppress the TSH. It would be an off-label use, but there is talk of using it for folks like

you.

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

[Guest guest]

Soy and other goitrogens cause the blockage of the use of the thyroid

hormones, any thyroid hormones, and not just when consumed within a small

time period of taking your hormone. It's not just a digestive thing, but a

cellular absorption thing. The goitrogens foods (certain veggies, fruits,

and the like) aren't nearly so bad for this when cooked. Soy, however, is

detrimental, so I would be into label reading. B12 is not iron, it's one of

the B vitamins, water soluble, and is a totally separate test from serum

iron, ferritin, or the other testings for iron status.

Re: New Member hitting a wall with meds

> Hi ,

>

> I don't purposely consume soy, although I know it is in a lot of

> processed foods. I take my meds on an empty stomach... the T4 that

> is. The Armour I was drinking throughout the day.

>

> I am careful to take calcium apart from my meds. Is B12 considered

> iron?

>

> What are the effects of taking soy and/or goitrogens?

>

> Thanks,

> Randy

[Guest guest]

Yes Randy, I did. I used a method similar to 's. She tries new meds every three days starting on a Monday. I had ended up taking the medicine every other day and then every three days like she suggested, then every other day and now every day. (I am not systematic or organized.) I cannot explain how I felt badly except that I couldn't sleep after a few days, so I would stop it entirely and then start every day until I couldn't sleep and then started with the every other day or every third day. It is a capsule or I would have just taken half. My doc offered to Rx 5 mg if I chose but all solved now. I never considered going off my Armour, I don't know what would happen. I have more energy and stamina now but not back to normal. M.randogbert wrote: Marilyn,Did you have a hard time adjusting to hydrocortisone while you were taking Armour?Thanks,Randy>> We are taking different drugs so I cannot compare. I was taking Armour for several years before my doc decided to check the pituitary with IGF1 which is below range. At that point, I found this group and a Hypopituitary group. I found a new doc and checked adrenals and other hormones, all low. No surprise. I am taking hydrocortisone (10mg) and am improved. I did not intrupt the Armour to start the hydrocortisone. No one seemed to think that was necessary. Good luck.> M.