Re: Primal Defense (was crohn's disease - J. Rubin)

[Guest guest]

> Big difference between consuming a few spore formers on

>food and in dirt and consuming mass quantites in the form of a

>probiotic pill. I don't have a bottle of PD so I don't even know if

>the strains and quatities of bacteria are listed, they certainly

>aren't listed on the web page (proprietary precess and all that). I

>think you'd be better off making capsules out of dirt if you need

>more. Or just eat fermented foods.

I found these on a board from 2002, it was quoting the Natren

people and listed the pubmed docs. This has been going on for

a while! Someone posted the following, I thought it was

interesting so I thought I'd send it along:

Re: soil organisms: my research continues

Posted by Helping You on June 20, 2002 at 20:27:17:

In Reply to: soil organisms: my research continues posted by

M on June 20, 2002 at 17:47:12:

Thanks for doing the research . I have this to say about

Natren's comments.

The problems MUST lie in the products themselves. The proof is

in our history. People have been consuming soil-organisms in

the form of fresh fruits and vegetables straight from the garden

and in the form of lactofermented foods such as sauerkraut,

chutney and yogurt. Now, even though the above lactofermented

foods are not in the soil when they are fermented, many

traditional societies DID burry their food for fermentation and

preservation. Nobody has ever died from eating natural, whole,

lactofermented foods or vegetbales straight from an organic

garden. So, why then, should we be believe what is being said

about the organisms? I can not vouch for many of the soil

organism supplements that are on the market but Primal

Defense DOES stand out above the rest. The soil organisms are

produced by fermenting whole foods for up to 6 months or

longer. So, the SBO's are actually CREATED during this

fermentation period. The product is made in exactly the same

way as people have been doing it for thousands of years. There

is no danger there. BUT, if we attempt to isolate these bacteria

and take them out of their natural habitat, it's like creating a drug

and who KNOWS what kind of effect is would have. Anyway, I

support your continued research and I look foward to reading it.

However, I suspect that you are going to find the same type of

subject matter as you are presenting here. Once again, it comes

down to " ISOLATION " . Researchers love to isolate what THEY

believe to be the " active compound " or the " strongest organism " .

This is how we are getting into trouble. As of now, Primal

Defense is the ONLY soil organism product I recommend and is

the ONLY one on the market that grows it's organisms naturally

in a whole-food substrate. Take Care

-HY

The link is at

http://askwaltstollmd.com/archives/probiotics/111782.html#1118

08 and they have a probiotic archive with more stuff.

I probably should get to work...

Louise

[Guest guest]

--- In , " thelouise03 " <louise@e...>

wrote:

> I found these on a board from 2002, it was quoting the Natren

> people and listed the pubmed docs. This has been going on for

> a while! Someone posted the following, I thought it was

> interesting so I thought I'd send it along:

>

> Re: soil organisms: my research continues

> Posted by Helping You on June 20, 2002 at 20:27:17:

>

> In Reply to: soil organisms: my research continues posted by

> M on June 20, 2002 at 17:47:12:

>

> Thanks for doing the research . I have this to say about

> Natren's comments.

>

> The problems MUST lie in the products themselves. The proof is

> in our history. People have been consuming soil-organisms in

> the form of fresh fruits and vegetables straight from the garden

> and in the form of lactofermented foods such as sauerkraut,

> chutney and yogurt. Now, even though the above lactofermented

> foods are not in the soil when they are fermented, many

> traditional societies DID burry their food for fermentation and

> preservation. Nobody has ever died from eating natural, whole,

> lactofermented foods or vegetbales straight from an organic

> garden. So, why then, should we be believe what is being said

> about the organisms? I can not vouch for many of the soil

> organism supplements that are on the market but Primal

> Defense DOES stand out above the rest. The soil organisms are

> produced by fermenting whole foods for up to 6 months or

> longer. So, the SBO's are actually CREATED during this

> fermentation period. The product is made in exactly the same

> way as people have been doing it for thousands of years. There

> is no danger there. BUT, if we attempt to isolate these bacteria

> and take them out of their natural habitat, it's like creating a

drug

> and who KNOWS what kind of effect is would have. Anyway, I

> support your continued research and I look foward to reading it.

> However, I suspect that you are going to find the same type of

> subject matter as you are presenting here. Once again, it comes

> down to " ISOLATION " . Researchers love to isolate what THEY

> believe to be the " active compound " or the " strongest organism " .

> This is how we are getting into trouble. As of now, Primal

> Defense is the ONLY soil organism product I recommend and is

> the ONLY one on the market that grows it's organisms naturally

> in a whole-food substrate. Take Care

Despite the above claims, SBOs are NOT " CREATED " by fermentation,

they multiply during fermentation. This is either is mis-statement or

utter ignorance of the most basic facts of biology. However, if this

is how PD is produced the we really have no idea what bacteria will

be present in the product and it will vary from batch to batch. Much

more likely is that the ferment is seeded with specific ISOLATED

standard strains of the bacteria so that the product is more or less

standardized.

And one other picky point, people HAVE died from eating natural,

whole, uneviscerated fermented fish. It's the number one cause of

botulism in the US. I'm guessing that the person was referring to

vegies only.