Re: OT Religious Beliefs (was mostly off-topic)

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

Could you please use the proper tags in your OT or POLITICS posts?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 07:29:56AM -0500, Deanna Wagner wrote:

> Deanna,

>

> Could you please use the proper tags in your OT or POLITICS posts?

>

>

> Deanna

I'm new here but I'm not new to discussion lists, and I must say that

this list is the most frustrating one for me to follow. People are

changing the subject lines when they don't really need to be changed,

and people are hijacking threads (this is when a member hits reply to a

message and replaces the subject line with a new one and starts an

entirely new subject).

My mail reader threads discussions so once a thread goes OT I can just

delete the sub-thread if I want. I can't imagine having the time to read

every post that comes through this list, especially when so much of the

traffic is OT.

Additionally, some reply and don't quote the message they're replying to

so I have no idea what they're talking about. (Remember I make liberal

use of the delete function.)

I'm not suggesting that the OT banter stop because I fully understand

the importance of community. IOW, I wouldn't want to see the list

dynamics change, but it sure would make it a lot nicer if the basic

conventions of discussion lists were followed.

Best regards,

Todd

[Guest guest]

--- In , Todd Slater <dontodd@c...>

wrote:

>

> I'm new here but I'm not new to discussion lists, and I must say

that

> this list is the most frustrating one for me to follow. People are

> changing the subject lines when they don't really need to be

changed,

> and people are hijacking threads (this is when a member hits reply

to a

> message and replaces the subject line with a new one and starts an

> entirely new subject).

Hi Todd: Obviously you are raising a very important question. I admit

that the cap fits me here, as I am often changing the subject line or

starting an entirely new subject, to quote you. What I see is that

this is a very subjective question: one can never feel totally

confident of what one is doing. It is hard to establish fool-proof

rules here, isn't it? If I keep the same subject line for a new

theme, am I not betraying the potential reader? But who gives me the

right to change it in a rather aleatory way? It is a Catch-22, isn't

it?

>

> My mail reader threads discussions so once a thread goes OT I can

just

> delete the sub-thread if I want. I can't imagine having the time to

read

> every post that comes through this list, especially when so much of

the

> traffic is OT.

>

> Additionally, some reply and don't quote the message they're

replying to

> so I have no idea what they're talking about. (Remember I make

liberal

> use of the delete function.)

* I had already observed this phenomenon. It helps to keep relevant

parts of the message you are responding to. It helps to indicate if

you are addressing someone in particular, and it also helps (though

many people may disagree) to sign your messages.

> I'm not suggesting that the OT banter stop because I fully

understand

> the importance of community. IOW, I wouldn't want to see the list

> dynamics change, but it sure would make it a lot nicer if the basic

> conventions of discussion lists were followed.

* Where are these basic conventions to be found? And what shall we do

about the necessary or superfluous changings of the subject line?

Doesn't this question need to be addressed before we move on? I am

all ears.

Thanks, Todd Slater.

JC

> Best regards,

>

> Todd

[Guest guest]

>But I don't know if I can answer your question concerning theism.

>Probably not. I said " pantheism " , didn´t I? This is the most

>difficult question I can think of: is there a God or not? It is very

>easy to dismiss the idea of a God: everything becomes so simple. But

>again a piece suddenly appears to be missing, a connection, you see.

>I think I will be dead before I can find an answer to all these

>questions.

>

>I am sorry, Deanna, I will leave your question unattended. Bu what

>about you? What is your belief, if you have one?

>

>Cheers,

>

>José

>

>

Hey JC,

Me and my questioning! Well, it's a long story about me and theism,

religion and all. Christianity has been a part of my life in the past,

but I really question much of it now. I am not part of any church or

religion presently. I actually wonder now how I ever had the time for

it. I do enjoy he teachings of Jesus, though, as they contain much wisdom.

I lean more towards deism now. It totally jibes with the observable

world (and that is not all there is, but we are limited to space-time),

which makes sense for me as a rational adult. Certainly I can have

spirituality without abandoning my senses and intellect.

" I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us

with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

- Galileo Galilei http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

And I am inclined also to be skeptical of any system whereby beliefs

take the reigns and common sense and reason trail as an afterthought..

" And for all such alternative medicine claims, testimonials can steer us

in the right direction of where to conduct research; science is the only

tool that can tell us whether they really work or not. "

- Shermer, from Skeptic, Scientific American, August 2005

We have not corresponded much recently, but I am reading your words

regularly in any case, so I feel near to you, so to speak.

To your health!

Deanna

PS. Sorry, Todd, to have omitted the OT tag in the first place.

Perhaps can resurrect his posting suggestions.

[Guest guest]

Hi José-,

On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 04:34:32PM +0000, José- s Barbosa wrote:

>

<snip>

> >

> Hi Todd: Obviously you are raising a very important question. I admit

> that the cap fits me here, as I am often changing the subject line or

> starting an entirely new subject, to quote you. What I see is that

> this is a very subjective question: one can never feel totally

> confident of what one is doing. It is hard to establish fool-proof

> rules here, isn't it? If I keep the same subject line for a new

> theme, am I not betraying the potential reader? But who gives me the

> right to change it in a rather aleatory way? It is a Catch-22, isn't

> it?

I don't think you're betraying the potential reader unless that reader

has just joined the group. As a regular list member, the reader will

have received the previous messages in the thread and can recognize when

subthreads are going astray and decide whether or not to follow them. If

you decide to take a thread in a completely new direction, why not post

a new message (not a reply) with an appropriate subject? If it appears

too OT, then maybe the thread should die anyway . I understand your

concern about giving accurate subject lines, but for me it is actually

more inconvenient. But I defer to the moderators/group as to what is

preferred.

<snip>

> > I'm not suggesting that the OT banter stop because I fully

> understand

> > the importance of community. IOW, I wouldn't want to see the list

> > dynamics change, but it sure would make it a lot nicer if the basic

> > conventions of discussion lists were followed.

>

> * Where are these basic conventions to be found? And what shall we do

> about the necessary or superfluous changings of the subject line?

> Doesn't this question need to be addressed before we move on? I am

> all ears.

Different lists have different conventions. I am used to

computer/technical-type lists where the conventions typically are:

1. no html mail--this is grounds for severe punishment!

2. bottom post--quote the relevant parts of the original message and

answer below

3. prune--snip the irrelevant parts of old messages

One of the better guides was written by folks on the Mandrake Linux (now

Mandriva) list I used to haunt:

http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrivaMailingListEtiquette

At the bottom of that page are links to the basis for these rules, such

as http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html#3,

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html, and

http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html.

But in general, we can just look to what is commonly accepted netiquette:

http://www.google.com/search?q=netiquette.

Regarding what to do, I suppose that's up to the group. I prefer the

changing of subject lines to be a rare occurrence; others may feel

differently.

Best,

Todd