Re: Re:Metabolic Typing was Detox Ideas

[Guest guest]

Hi Ron,

Sorry for the reply delay. Been a hectic week. I've combined two of your

posts here.

> I've been meaning to ask you about your level of knowledge regarding the

> science of Metabolic Typing. It's been a while since I read the book but

> I

> recall being unimpressed by the level of support that Wolcott presented

> for

> his assertions and I was also mystified as to how he (and Dr. Kelley)

> figured out which foods were appropriate for which type of metabolism.

From what I've read other than Wolcott, it looks like

(Nutrition and your Mind, Personality Strength and Psychochemical Energy)

and Rudolph Wiley (Biobalance) were the researchers that determined ()

and retested by blood plasma ph levels (Wiley) what Kelley then Wolcott went

on to redefine. All the Kelley I've read is his One Answer to Cancer online

at http://www.drkelley.com/CANLIVER55.html I'm not positive on overlaps in

researchers working separately in the same time frames other than Wiley

giving credit to 's research and giving credit to J.

's Biochemical Individuality, iirc.

Wolcott to me adds the science he's found to which homeostatic system

operates or doesn't with specific nutrients, either good for, not good for

or of no benefit or detriment to the metabolic type. I've personally got

more that made sense to me out of each of the above individually, plus

Metabolic Man, 10,000 Years from Eden (thyroid type I spoke of in another

post) than I did from MTD.

> It

> all seemed like voodoo to me back when I got my first diagnosis of being a

> Protein Type and I didn't really get a solid grip on how to actually apply

> the principles until I started working with Dodie of Metabolic

> Ed.

> I still have little understanding of how to figure out on my own why one

> food or the other will cause my metabolism to work properly or not.

Best I understand or can explain it from my experience is certain foods and

nutritional supplements have been found to be beneficial to some but not all

metabolisms. With protein types it's foods and supplements that slow down

fast oxidizing. The big myth hurdle I've seen with protein types and

metabolic typing is the widely held beliefs on acid foods.

Protein types need foods and supplements that produce acetate, the protein

type energy source. There's more foods added for protein types from

to Wiley to Wolcott. How determined them and the specific type

supplements too I haven't figured out other than constant retesting for best

results. used a smell test of 6 foods and supplements that came out

to

be 99.9% accurate to type and variations from after. What you smelled told

him

what your type was.

>

> You, OTOH, seem to understand all of this very well. Is there some other

> source you have found that contains this information? If there is I am

> very

> interested.

Basically what works for best satiation and energy for me is the protein

type foods 90% of time, no gluten, little dairy, mostly butter with some non

protein type vegetables, mostly root vegetables to replace grain carbs and

fruits but not tomatoes, cooked or citrus which create acid reflux almost

immediately. Cheat daily with coffee and chocolate, not necessarily every

day. Do smoke. Here's your licit caffeine and nicotine that are not

necessarily good for thyroid body type. Don't drink alcohol at all, stomach

always told me it wrong, worse than coffee for protein type metabolism. The

appendixes in Metabolic Man are helpful to better defining by body type,

Ayurvedic dosha. Don't eat any foods that have lectins wrong for my blood

type in Metabolic Typing Diet. Did you get the protein type supplements from

Dodie ? I decided to find and take separately what Wiley says in

Biobalance. Calcium, zinc, panthothenic acid, choline and inositol are

what's needed most for the proper processing to acetate. Reading up on

pantothenic acid the other night I found this in the Nutrition Almanac by

Nutrition Search Inc. pg.42

Pantothenic Acid and Life Span -Mice were divided into two groups. They were

treated alike except that each animal in the control group received 0.3 mgs.

of extra pantothenate per day in it's drinking water. This amount was

several times the amount that mice supposedly require.

Results. The 41 mice on the regular diet lived an average of 550 days. The

33 mice that received extra pantothenate lived an average of 653 days. 550

days is equivalent to 75 years for humans, and 653 days is equivalent to 89

years. (, Nutrition against Disease, pp. 141 and 142)

had a patient who made life improving changes when he tripled his

pantothenic acid intake on his own.

> Here's the problem. I have this very, very strong intuitive sense that I

> need vegetable carbohydrate. When I go zero or very low carb, which I

> have

> done over the past year for extended periods, it feels wrong to me. So,

> is

> this my body giving me a correct signal or is it my body trying to trick

> me

> back into eating improper foods? I can't resolve the issue.

I'm lower carb than with SAD but not in low carb standards.When I gave up

gluten I went low carb at the same time inadvertantly. It was late summer

and I was eating more than usual fresh, low carb vegetables. Made it fine

through the first week feeling good with the brain fog lifting and no

withdrawal, detox energy zapping. About 10 days in I started feeling

unhappy, blue a few days in a row which made me decide not to be there any

longer. Luckily I was reading the Schwarzbein Principle where she says if

this happens with her diet to increase carbs. Put that to this list and Dr.

Marasco who used to be here said he always puts carb substitutes in gluten

free diets to patients to avoid depression common to carb drop. Made sure I

ate either potatoes, white or sweet, winter squash or carrots everyday for a

week and was feeling myself again in a few days. My intuitive hindsight in

this case went to less processed starchy vegetables rather than to processed

gluten free flours. It can not only feel wrong, it can be wrong. I do

physical work and can't stay still long so I use and naturally burn fast all

the time. Could be doing something wrong but I don't think so looking at

historical, carniverous diets. Do you take magnesium supplements? I've found

after many years of playing with magnesium and calcium to not great results

then finding calcium the beneficial to protein types, that if I take

magnesium alone or in the 1 part to 2 parts calcium, I crave the sweet,

floury foods and probably more coffee too, no matter how well I've eaten

otherwise. If the calcium is alone or 3-4 parts higher than the magnesium

there are no cravings. Hope this all answered your questions somewhat.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Hi Wanita,

> Sorry for the reply delay. Been a hectic week. I've combined

> two of your

> posts here.

No problem. I appreciate your answer. You've packed a lot of info into a

few paragraphs and I'm going to have to re-read this a few times before I

fully absorb it.

> From what I've read other than Wolcott, it looks like

> (Nutrition and your Mind, Personality Strength and

> Psychochemical Energy)

> and Rudolph Wiley (Biobalance) were the researchers that

> determined ()

> and retested by blood plasma ph levels (Wiley) what Kelley

> then Wolcott went

> on to redefine. All the Kelley I've read is his One Answer to

> Cancer online

> at http://www.drkelley.com/CANLIVER55.html I'm not positive

> on overlaps in

> researchers working separately in the same time frames other

> than Wiley

> giving credit to 's research and giving credit

> to J.

> 's Biochemical Individuality, iirc.

Okay. Great sources. I will investigate further.

>

> Wolcott to me adds the science he's found to which homeostatic system

> operates or doesn't with specific nutrients, either good for,

> not good for

> or of no benefit or detriment to the metabolic type. I've

> personally got

> more that made sense to me out of each of the above individually, plus

> Metabolic Man, 10,000 Years from Eden (thyroid type I spoke

> of in another

> post) than I did from MTD.

Okay. That makes sense. As I said before -- I found MTD to be lacking in

explanation but useful if you are willing to suspend disbelief and just

follow the protocol.

> The big myth hurdle I've seen with protein types and

> metabolic typing is the widely held beliefs on acid foods.

Could you please expand on this when you have the time? Or just point me to

a source that explains it well? I've been reading the discussions here that

contain info on alkalinizing and acidifying and am still in the " haven't put

it all together yet " phase.

>

> Protein types need foods and supplements that produce

> acetate, the protein

> type energy source. There's more foods added for protein

> types from

> to Wiley to Wolcott. How determined them and the specific type

> supplements too I haven't figured out other than constant

> retesting for best

> results. used a smell test of 6 foods and supplements

> that came out

> to

> be 99.9% accurate to type and variations from after. What you

> smelled told

> him

> what your type was.

Huh. Interesting.

The remainder of your post was very, very helpful to me:

> Basically what works for best satiation and energy for me is

> the protein

> type foods 90% of time, no gluten, little dairy, mostly

> butter with some non

> protein type vegetables, mostly root vegetables to replace

> grain carbs and

> fruits but not tomatoes, cooked or citrus which create acid

> reflux almost

> immediately. Cheat daily with coffee and chocolate, not

> necessarily every

> day. Do smoke. Here's your licit caffeine and nicotine that are not

> necessarily good for thyroid body type.

LOL.

> Don't drink alcohol

> at all, stomach

> always told me it wrong, worse than coffee for protein type

> metabolism.

Interestingly, alcohol affects me in the opposite way from most people. It

wakes me up and gets me moving.

> The

> appendixes in Metabolic Man are helpful to better defining by

> body type,

> Ayurvedic dosha.

Great. Next on the reading list...

> Don't eat any foods that have lectins wrong

> for my blood

> type in Metabolic Typing Diet. Did you get the protein type

> supplements from

> Dodie ? I decided to find and take separately what

> Wiley says in

> Biobalance. Calcium, zinc, panthothenic acid, choline and

> inositol are

> what's needed most for the proper processing to acetate.

> Reading up on

> pantothenic acid the other night I found this in the

> Nutrition Almanac by

> Nutrition Search Inc. pg.42

I have completely thrown in the towel regarding vitamin, mineral and herb

supplements. Way too much info to absorb as absolutely everyone disagrees

about everything. Probably not the best course of action, but I'm trying to

get things largely straightened out dietarily for now.

A very cool thing about both Dodie and Dr. Mercola was that despite the fact

that there were specific supplement recommendations made by the Metabolic

Typing test results protocols neither of them were insistent that I go that

route. They were both much more focused on getting my diet straightened out

and didn't really care too much about the supplementation despite the fact

that they would have both made some money off of selling them to me.

> I'm lower carb than with SAD but not in low carb

> standards.When I gave up

> gluten I went low carb at the same time inadvertantly. It was

> late summer

> and I was eating more than usual fresh, low carb vegetables.

> Made it fine

> through the first week feeling good with the brain fog lifting and no

> withdrawal, detox energy zapping. About 10 days in I started feeling

> unhappy, blue a few days in a row which made me decide not to

> be there any

> longer. Luckily I was reading the Schwarzbein Principle where

> she says if

> this happens with her diet to increase carbs. Put that to

> this list and Dr.

> Marasco who used to be here said he always puts carb

> substitutes in gluten

> free diets to patients to avoid depression common to carb

> drop. Made sure I

> ate either potatoes, white or sweet, winter squash or carrots

> everyday for a

> week and was feeling myself again in a few days.

Yes. Despite some blood sugar issues I've found that I crave (and I think

in a good way for once) sweet potatoes periodically. It all makes sense.

> My intuitive

> hindsight in

> this case went to less processed starchy vegetables rather

> than to processed

> gluten free flours. It can not only feel wrong, it can be wrong. I do

> physical work and can't stay still long so I use and

> naturally burn fast all

> the time. Could be doing something wrong but I don't think so

> looking at

> historical, carniverous diets.

This fits for me, too.

> Do you take magnesium

> supplements? I've found

> after many years of playing with magnesium and calcium to not

> great results

> then finding calcium the beneficial to protein types, that if I take

> magnesium alone or in the 1 part to 2 parts calcium, I crave

> the sweet,

> floury foods and probably more coffee too, no matter how well

> I've eaten

> otherwise. If the calcium is alone or 3-4 parts higher than

> the magnesium

> there are no cravings.

This was the one supplement that Dr. Mercola actually had me taking.

Calcium in combination with magnesium. Interestingly, I saw no change in

anything and when subsequent hair testing still showed almost no change in

my levels I stopped taking them.

> Hope this all answered your questions somewhat.

>

Great, great answers. You've really helped me a lot.

After two years of eating perfect Zone nutrition and still not feeling the

way I thought I should be feeling I went to Dr. Mercola's in Chicago for

some help. That was in November of 03. I didn't actually get to work with

him but I worked with his partner at the time, Dr. Plotkin. Basically they

told me that I had to completely change my diet -- again. After doing the

brutal psychological work that it took to go from SAD to the Zone I was

overwhelmed by the fact that I had to do this all over again. So I've been

struggling with getting the diet right and staying compliant ever since that

time. I've spent about 60% of the past year eating right and the other 40%

in various degrees of eating poorly. Truth be told even my eating poorly is

infinitely better than what most people eat on a daily basis, but it's still

not right for me and it's been a long struggle with lots of experimentation

to figure out what actually works for me. Much of what you described as

your own experience validates what I've been finding on my own and I found

it be pretty reassuring .

Thanks,

Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron:

Do you mind elaborating a little about your experience with Dr.

Plotkin. BTW, he is no longer at Dr. Mercola's clinic.

I like Wanita have had a very positive experience with Metabolic

Typing and have experienced incremental benefits.

vsp

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:10:29 -0500, RBJR <rbjr@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Wanita,

>

> > Sorry for the reply delay. Been a hectic week. I've combined

> > two of your

> > posts here.

>

> No problem. I appreciate your answer. You've packed a lot of info into a

> few paragraphs and I'm going to have to re-read this a few times before I

> fully absorb it.

>

> > From what I've read other than Wolcott, it looks like

> > (Nutrition and your Mind, Personality Strength and

> > Psychochemical Energy)

> > and Rudolph Wiley (Biobalance) were the researchers that

> > determined ()

> > and retested by blood plasma ph levels (Wiley) what Kelley

> > then Wolcott went

> > on to redefine. All the Kelley I've read is his One Answer to

> > Cancer online

> > at http://www.drkelley.com/CANLIVER55.html I'm not positive

> > on overlaps in

> > researchers working separately in the same time frames other

> > than Wiley

> > giving credit to 's research and giving credit

> > to J.

> > 's Biochemical Individuality, iirc.

>

> Okay. Great sources. I will investigate further.

>

> >

> > Wolcott to me adds the science he's found to which homeostatic system

> > operates or doesn't with specific nutrients, either good for,

> > not good for

> > or of no benefit or detriment to the metabolic type. I've

> > personally got

> > more that made sense to me out of each of the above individually, plus

> > Metabolic Man, 10,000 Years from Eden (thyroid type I spoke

> > of in another

> > post) than I did from MTD.

>

> Okay. That makes sense. As I said before -- I found MTD to be lacking in

> explanation but useful if you are willing to suspend disbelief and just

> follow the protocol.

>

> > The big myth hurdle I've seen with protein types and

> > metabolic typing is the widely held beliefs on acid foods.

>

> Could you please expand on this when you have the time? Or just point me to

> a source that explains it well? I've been reading the discussions here that

> contain info on alkalinizing and acidifying and am still in the " haven't put

> it all together yet " phase.

>

> >

> > Protein types need foods and supplements that produce

> > acetate, the protein

> > type energy source. There's more foods added for protein

> > types from

> > to Wiley to Wolcott. How determined them and the specific type

> > supplements too I haven't figured out other than constant

> > retesting for best

> > results. used a smell test of 6 foods and supplements

> > that came out

> > to

> > be 99.9% accurate to type and variations from after. What you

> > smelled told

> > him

> > what your type was.

>

> Huh. Interesting.

>

> The remainder of your post was very, very helpful to me:

>

> > Basically what works for best satiation and energy for me is

> > the protein

> > type foods 90% of time, no gluten, little dairy, mostly

> > butter with some non

> > protein type vegetables, mostly root vegetables to replace

> > grain carbs and

> > fruits but not tomatoes, cooked or citrus which create acid

> > reflux almost

> > immediately. Cheat daily with coffee and chocolate, not

> > necessarily every

> > day. Do smoke. Here's your licit caffeine and nicotine that are not

> > necessarily good for thyroid body type.

>

> LOL.

>

> > Don't drink alcohol

> > at all, stomach

> > always told me it wrong, worse than coffee for protein type

> > metabolism.

>

> Interestingly, alcohol affects me in the opposite way from most people. It

> wakes me up and gets me moving.

>

> > The

> > appendixes in Metabolic Man are helpful to better defining by

> > body type,

> > Ayurvedic dosha.

>

> Great. Next on the reading list...

>

> > Don't eat any foods that have lectins wrong

> > for my blood

> > type in Metabolic Typing Diet. Did you get the protein type

> > supplements from

> > Dodie ? I decided to find and take separately what

> > Wiley says in

> > Biobalance. Calcium, zinc, panthothenic acid, choline and

> > inositol are

> > what's needed most for the proper processing to acetate.

> > Reading up on

> > pantothenic acid the other night I found this in the

> > Nutrition Almanac by

> > Nutrition Search Inc. pg.42

>

> I have completely thrown in the towel regarding vitamin, mineral and herb

> supplements. Way too much info to absorb as absolutely everyone disagrees

> about everything. Probably not the best course of action, but I'm trying to

> get things largely straightened out dietarily for now.

>

> A very cool thing about both Dodie and Dr. Mercola was that despite the fact

> that there were specific supplement recommendations made by the Metabolic

> Typing test results protocols neither of them were insistent that I go that

> route. They were both much more focused on getting my diet straightened out

> and didn't really care too much about the supplementation despite the fact

> that they would have both made some money off of selling them to me.

>

> > I'm lower carb than with SAD but not in low carb

> > standards.When I gave up

> > gluten I went low carb at the same time inadvertantly. It was

> > late summer

> > and I was eating more than usual fresh, low carb vegetables.

> > Made it fine

> > through the first week feeling good with the brain fog lifting and no

> > withdrawal, detox energy zapping. About 10 days in I started feeling

> > unhappy, blue a few days in a row which made me decide not to

> > be there any

> > longer. Luckily I was reading the Schwarzbein Principle where

> > she says if

> > this happens with her diet to increase carbs. Put that to

> > this list and Dr.

> > Marasco who used to be here said he always puts carb

> > substitutes in gluten

> > free diets to patients to avoid depression common to carb

> > drop. Made sure I

> > ate either potatoes, white or sweet, winter squash or carrots

> > everyday for a

> > week and was feeling myself again in a few days.

>

> Yes. Despite some blood sugar issues I've found that I crave (and I think

> in a good way for once) sweet potatoes periodically. It all makes sense.

>

> > My intuitive

> > hindsight in

> > this case went to less processed starchy vegetables rather

> > than to processed

> > gluten free flours. It can not only feel wrong, it can be wrong. I do

> > physical work and can't stay still long so I use and

> > naturally burn fast all

> > the time. Could be doing something wrong but I don't think so

> > looking at

> > historical, carniverous diets.

>

> This fits for me, too.

>

> > Do you take magnesium

> > supplements? I've found

> > after many years of playing with magnesium and calcium to not

> > great results

> > then finding calcium the beneficial to protein types, that if I take

> > magnesium alone or in the 1 part to 2 parts calcium, I crave

> > the sweet,

> > floury foods and probably more coffee too, no matter how well

> > I've eaten

> > otherwise. If the calcium is alone or 3-4 parts higher than

> > the magnesium

> > there are no cravings.

>

> This was the one supplement that Dr. Mercola actually had me taking.

> Calcium in combination with magnesium. Interestingly, I saw no change in

> anything and when subsequent hair testing still showed almost no change in

> my levels I stopped taking them.

>

> > Hope this all answered your questions somewhat.

> >

>

> Great, great answers. You've really helped me a lot.

>

> After two years of eating perfect Zone nutrition and still not feeling the

> way I thought I should be feeling I went to Dr. Mercola's in Chicago for

> some help. That was in November of 03. I didn't actually get to work with

> him but I worked with his partner at the time, Dr. Plotkin. Basically they

> told me that I had to completely change my diet -- again. After doing the

> brutal psychological work that it took to go from SAD to the Zone I was

> overwhelmed by the fact that I had to do this all over again. So I've been

> struggling with getting the diet right and staying compliant ever since that

> time. I've spent about 60% of the past year eating right and the other 40%

> in various degrees of eating poorly. Truth be told even my eating poorly is

> infinitely better than what most people eat on a daily basis, but it's still

> not right for me and it's been a long struggle with lots of experimentation

> to figure out what actually works for me. Much of what you described as

> your own experience validates what I've been finding on my own and I found

> it be pretty reassuring .

>

> Thanks,

>

> Ron

>

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