Re: [NN]Mare's milk (was butter)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/21/2005 11:19:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

writes:

Mares/horses are

not ruminants, but cows and goats and sheep are, and it seems their

milk, I mean, mares' milk, is " superior " or at least closer to human

milk. But I haven't any further information. Have you done any

research in the Internet yet?

No I haven't. Here's what Udo has written:

" Ass' and mare's milk are EFA-rich. In Gengis Khan's Mongolia, mare's milk

was fermented to make " koumiss'. This high-w-3, high-energy fuel powered the

conquests..... The fermenting bacteria were then used to ferment cow's milk to

make the original " kefir " .

An analysis of mare's milk shows why it had such a good reputation for

enhancing health. It contains a whopping 38.4%of its fatty acids in the form of

the

w3 superunsaturated EFA, alpha-linolenic acid (LNA, 18:3w3), and almost no

sticky 18:0. "

He adds, " Unlike cows, horses have only one stomach, with no saturating

bacteria in it. Their diet, of course, is the same grass. What a difference a

bacteria can make. "

" Kefir sold in ;modern; trade is the EFA-poor cow's milk product. EFA-rich

fermented mare's milk is far better for health. The high content of LNA in

horses is also reflected in the make up of their serum, where it is found

associated with proteins. Horse serum was used experimentally in the 1950's to

dissolve hard tumors. This research led to the use of flax oil to dissolve

tumors

in humans " .

I don't use flax oil because it spoils before I can finish a tiny bottle, and

smells off the second time I use it. I do sometimes use the capsules, but

wonder if the oil is too fragile to stay beneficial even in the capsules.

BTW, I don't know what he means by " sticky 18.0 " . Maybe it's what cow's milk

has. It's not an easy book to understand. Makes me wish I could have horse

milk rather than cow's milk, though. I thought cow's milk had good EFA, maybe

just not as much, or different.

Peg

[Guest guest]

Peg-

>An analysis of mare's milk shows why it had such a good reputation for

>enhancing health. It contains a whopping 38.4%of its fatty acids in the

>form of the

>w3 superunsaturated EFA, alpha-linolenic acid (LNA, 18:3w3), and almost no

>sticky 18:0. "

Wow, that sounds like a great reason to avoid mare's milk, fermented or not!

-

[Guest guest]

> Wow, that sounds like a great reason to avoid mare's milk, fermented

or not!

,

I find this interesting, because the ancient yogis thought about milk

*a lot* and regarded cow's milk very highly. Other milk's were

applied for specific purposes: goat for buffering and for people with

milk sensitivities, sheep for specific constitutions, buffalo for its

sleep-inducing(!) abilities, donkey for whooping cough and human milk

for vitalizing, nosebleeds and disorders of the eye.

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>I find this interesting, because the ancient yogis thought about milk

>*a lot* and regarded cow's milk very highly. Other milk's were

>applied for specific purposes: goat for buffering and for people with

>milk sensitivities, sheep for specific constitutions, buffalo for its

>sleep-inducing(!) abilities, donkey for whooping cough and human milk

>for vitalizing, nosebleeds and disorders of the eye.

Huh. I wonder how much there is to all that. What, exactly, is the goat

milk supposed to be buffering, BTW?

-

[Guest guest]

> Huh. I wonder how much there is to all that. What, exactly, is the

goat

> milk supposed to be buffering, BTW?

,

From _The Ayurvedic Cookbook_ by A. Morningstar:

" Goat's milk is more astringent and less mucus-forming than cow's

milk; it is often well-absorbed by individuals with sensitivities to

cow's milk. It's high buffering capacity makes it useful for calming

and healing stomach ulcers...In ancient times goat's milk was used in

India to stimulate milk production in nursing mothers. It was also

considered a specific medicinal for excessive bleeding (due to its

astringency). "

I've read that goat milk is " alkalinizing " in several WAPF-approved

books. I'm thinking Donna Gates and Jordan Rubin.

'Milk is the semen of the god of fire,' saya the Shatapatha Brahmana.

Ha!

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>It's high buffering capacity makes it useful for calming

>and healing stomach ulcers...In ancient times goat's milk was used in

>India to stimulate milk production in nursing mothers. It was also

>considered a specific medicinal for excessive bleeding (due to its

>astringency). "

Huh. I wonder what (if anything) it means that I add some Goatein to my

yoghurt since I make yoghurt almost entirely with cream.

>I've read that goat milk is " alkalinizing " in several WAPF-approved

>books. I'm thinking Donna Gates and Jordan Rubin.

Are their books actually WAPF-approved? Rubin in particular seems to have

some pretty odd views.

Hmm, I see the WAPF review glosses over his religious proscriptions and all

questions about his SBO supplements. He also subscribes to that

" alkalinizing " guff? I thought he was pro-meat (as long as it's not

" unclean " ). Not so?

-

[Guest guest]

He also subscribes to that

> " alkalinizing " guff? I thought he was pro-meat (as long as it's not

> " unclean " ). Not so?

,

Here's a couple Rubin Quotes from Maker's Diet (I got the book free

off the internets, okay?):

" Goat's milk has more buffering capacity than OTC antacids. "

" Goat's milk alkalinizes the digestive system. It actually contains

an alkaline ash, and it does not produce acid in the inestinal system.

Goat's milk helps to increase the pH of the blood stream because it

is the dairy product highest in the amino acid L-glutamine.

L-glutamine is an alkalinizing amino acid... "

He cites Bernard Jensen for the former and Nutrition Reports

International for the latter.

Are people who describe the alkalinizing effects of foods--by

definition--anti-meat? It hasn't been my experience in the Ayurvedic

lit. but I've never read the Alkalinize or Die! stuff. My experience

is that meat is described as valuable and nourishing--though heavy and

acid-producing--and therefore one should eat plenty of vegetables

and/or other pH-increasing foods to balance the system. I don't have

issue with that. Sally, herself, says beet-kvass is valuable, in

part, because it is alkalinizing to the system--is she just pandering?

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>Are people who describe the alkalinizing effects of foods--by

>definition--anti-meat? It hasn't been my experience in the Ayurvedic

>lit. but I've never read the Alkalinize or Die! stuff.

In my experience they are, but I haven't exactly made a comprehensive

survey of the field. Price's observations were enough to convince me it's

not an issue.

>Sally, herself, says beet-kvass is valuable, in

>part, because it is alkalinizing to the system--is she just pandering?

Pandering? I doubt it. She seems forthright and honest, though I suppose

it's not impossible that the foundation might decide to present things

strategically.

I don't mean to suggest the body doesn't need to maintain blood pH in a

very narrow range, or that pH isn't an important factor in other parts of

the body. I'm sure certain nutrients are extremely important for

that. But the idea that you need to balance out your " acid " and " alkaline "

food intake is patent nonsense, as most of Price's healthy natives had

extremely acidic diets by the " alkalinize or die " types' lights.

-

[Guest guest]

> In my experience they are, but I haven't exactly made a comprehensive

> survey of the field. Price's observations were enough to convince

me it's

> not an issue...

> I don't mean to suggest the body doesn't need to maintain blood pH in a

> very narrow range, or that pH isn't an important factor in other

parts of

> the body. I'm sure certain nutrients are extremely important for

> that. But the idea that you need to balance out your " acid " and

" alkaline "

> food intake is patent nonsense, as most of Price's healthy natives had

> extremely acidic diets by the " alkalinize or die " types' lights.

,

I concede ignorance in this issue but I value your opinion and wonder

about, say, people who have cancer and have acidic systems. Do you

think they might benefit by investigating dietary methods to reduce

their acidity? Assuming they stay in the nutrient-dense realm, of course.

I suspect Price's natives were healthy on acidic diets because they

were, well, healthy, so their systems did not respond with acidity.

I think cause and effect can be so entwined as to be inseparable.

What about the acid-forming properties of processed foods? Do you

suppose that could be a component of their health-destructing

potential? The natives probably became acidic after eating white

flour and sugar, no? I'm not being smart, just attempting to wonder

about the idea without the dogma.

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>I concede ignorance in this issue but I value your opinion and wonder

>about, say, people who have cancer and have acidic systems. Do you

>think they might benefit by investigating dietary methods to reduce

>their acidity? Assuming they stay in the nutrient-dense realm, of course.

Cancer, huh. I sure don't know. My feeling is that nutrient density would

be extremely important and that avoid meat, particularly organs, would be a

grave mistake. (Of course for a cancer patient fanaticism on the matter of

perfect sources and so on would be especially vital.) I also think it

would be particularly bad for cancer patients to consume meaningful amounts

of sugar. There's nothing a tumor loves more than sugar. And there's a

reasonable abundance of literature out there supporting the use of

ketogenic diets for cancer. So... again, I guess, if I had cancer, I doubt

I'd pay attention to the acid/alkaline ash balance. I'd make double damn

sure to get plenty of minerals, though.

>I suspect Price's natives were healthy on acidic diets because they

>were, well, healthy, so their systems did not respond with acidity.

>I think cause and effect can be so entwined as to be inseparable.

Yeah, but how did they get healthy in the first place? By eating lots of

nutrient-dense foods, and generally those were mostly foods considered to

be " acidifying " .

> What about the acid-forming properties of processed foods? Do you

>suppose that could be a component of their health-destructing

>potential? The natives probably became acidic after eating white

>flour and sugar, no? I'm not being smart, just attempting to wonder

>about the idea without the dogma.

Well, look at it this way. Those healthy natives ate " acidifying " foods

when they were eating their native diets, and they were healthy. Then they

ate " acidifying " processed foods and got sick. My conclusion is that the

ash balance issue isn't relevant and that the harm of modern foods comes

from their low nutrient density and their high amounts of sugar and other

harmful ingredients.

-

[Guest guest]

,

I'm vaguely interested in this too. Do you know much about this acidity

business? I only ask because I thought that I read that raw milk was

alkalinizing, whilst either pasteurised or homogenised milk was acidic.

Probably I am misremembering? If I am then I'll just drop it.

[Guest guest]

,

I think that your belief in and personal success with a diet high in raw

organ meats may be the principle reason why you discount theories about pH

that promote alkalinity. So, I would like to weigh in here to say that in

my own experience, what needs to be discounted is not the concept of

alkalinity as a good thing, but the idea of how it is best to go about

achieving it.

My own diet is based primarily on raw meat (mostly organs and saturated fat,

with vegetables juices for balance) and my ever-increasing health has been

marked by a rise in pH from a seemingly unmoveable high acid to a very high

alkaline, based on just-rising morning tests, one of the reasons, I believe,

that I now have new enamel growing over the worn out and discolored teeth

the were previously eroding.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

-

>I think that your belief in and personal success with a diet high in raw

>organ meats may be the principle reason why you discount theories about pH

>that promote alkalinity.

No, definitely not. Someone's posted this before, but I discount the

theory that we need " alkalinizing " diets and that we have to " buffer " meat

entirely because of Weston A. Price's research, which clearly and

conclusively demonstrated that it's bunk.

That's not to say that pH isn't important in various parts of the body or

that certain nutrients aren't essential to maintain proper pH in a healthy

way. The body will often rob calcium from bones for that purpose, for

example, so inadequate dietary calcium and vitamin D are big problems. But

the idea that you have to balance out the digestive ash from the foods you

consume, and the idea that therefore everyone should be grazing on mass

quantities of vegetables and fruits and consuming gallons of juice, is pure

nonsense. pH has little to nothing to do with ash and everything to do

with a variety of essential nutrients and the health of various bodily systems.

>My own diet is based primarily on raw meat (mostly organs and saturated fat,

>with vegetables juices for balance) and my ever-increasing health has been

>marked by a rise in pH from a seemingly unmoveable high acid to a very high

>alkaline, based on just-rising morning tests, one of the reasons, I believe,

>that I now have new enamel growing over the worn out and discolored teeth

>the were previously eroding.

And I suggest that this has nothing whatsoever to do with ash balances and

everything to do with nutrients.

Ash balancing advocates have gone so far as to say that if we just

perfectly balance the amount of alkaline and acid ash produced in

digestion, we'd literally stop aging. I even remember reading an article

to that effect on Mercola's site some years ago. It's absurd!

-

[Guest guest]

-

>I'm vaguely interested in this too. Do you know much about this acidity

>business? I only ask because I thought that I read that raw milk was

>alkalinizing, whilst either pasteurised or homogenised milk was acidic.

>Probably I am misremembering? If I am then I'll just drop it.

I'm sure someone has said that. If you look hard, you can find someone

saying just about anything on the subject of what's alkalinizing and why

it's good for you. However, the typical advice is to keep " acid-forming "

foods to about 20% of the diet, including meat and grains. Surely you can

see how ridiculous this is. 80% of calories from fruits and vegetables and

maybe some fermented dairy? Hah!

Again, I reiterate that Price found that with only few exceptions, the

healthiest tribes were eating diets that would be considered heavily

acid-forming on balance -- not just mildly acidifying, but HEAVILY so. And

yet they were in such extraordinary health that even our elite athletes

nowadays often suffer by comparison.

Of course, it's also true that they consumed lots more minerals and lots

more fat-soluble activators. Why? They generally ate bone, they ate

better foods, they ate foods raised on better soils, etc. So to me, the

take-home message is to get plenty of minerals, eat bone in some form or

other, get plenty of fat-soluble activators, and don't worry about this

acid-alkaline nonsense. None of Price's healthy natives were juicing

fruits and vegetables, and none of them were on a diet of 80% fruits and

vegetables and 20% meats and grains. The more vegetarian the natives'

diets, the less healthy they were, all else being equal.

-

[Guest guest]

,

I must not have written clearly enough to make my point, since you answered

me by arguing the very thing I was trying to express: <pH has little to

nothing to do with ash and everything to do

with a variety of essential nutrients and the health of various bodily

systems.>

Perhaps I misled you with <<(mostly organs and saturated fat, with

vegetables juices for balance) >> but please look again at the word

" mostly. " Also, in the last year, I have been drinking perhaps a quart of

vegetable juice a day-- which I think reasonable, perhaps a minimal amount,

given that I'm not eating vegetables.

When I said <what needs to be discounted is not the concept of alkalinity as

a good thing, but the idea of how it is best to go about

achieving it.> I was specifically speaking to the dangers you spoke of here

<the idea that you have to balance out the digestive ash from the foods you

consume, and the idea that therefore everyone should be grazing on mass

quantities of vegetables and fruits and consuming gallons of juice, is pure

nonsense.>

But perhaps we are in disagreement about the result to be desired. I do

think a high alkaline reading for salivia has been the foundation of my

new-found dental health and likely health in other areas as well.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

, ,

There's a similar alkalinity, ash, pH discussion on another thread.

Hopefully this metabolic typing article and patent applied for to

determine saliva to blood pH will shed some light on what apparently

means that all ash pH outside the body does not produce either

alkalinity or acidity in everyone.

I've deleted post responded to to as it was difficult to

follow who wrote what.

Wanita

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2003_Feb-March/ai_97994371

Diabetes, cancer and weight: a Metabolic Typing survey

Harold J. Kristal

Our work with Metabolic Typing puts us in a unique position to observe

relationships between particular disease conditions and the different

Metabolic Types. A Metabolic Type can be understood as the

characteristic way in which an individual produces and processes

energy. By addressing the individual at this fundamental level, we are

able to match up their metabolism with an appropriate diet that will

help to protect the body from the development of the common

degenerative diseases. This approach is in line with, and a

contemporary restatement of, the traditional naturopathic orientation

to healthcare, where the individual as a whole is addressed, rather

than just their specific disease condition. The survey that is

presented below shows a direct correlation between diabetes and cancer

and specific Metabolic Types in our own patient population. It

reinforces the concept that different dietary approaches are needed

for individuals to regain or maintain optimal health, and provides

important pointers as to how to use dietary intervention to prevent

such diseases from occurring in the first place. Before we look at the

details and implications of our patient survey, we'll begin with a

general overview of the principles underlying Metabolic Typing.

Metabolic Typing: An Overview

In 1987, I was introduced to a little known nutritional protocol that

addresses the individual at the foundational metabolic level, rather

than directly addressing any particular disease condition. The basic

thesis of this Oxidative system approach to metabolic balancing is

that imbalances which sooner or later manifest as outright diseases

originate when our blood pH deviates too far from the ideal of 7.46.

It was , PhD, a full professor at the University of

Southern California and author of the classic book Nutrition and Your

Mind: The Psychochemical Response, who first introduced this theory to

the world. 's typing methodology, later refined by Rudolf Wiley,

PhD, was based on the functioning of the Oxidative system, the complex

of processes that generate energy at an intracellular level. Within

this system, individuals are typed according to the speed at which

they convert nutrients into energy, in the form of ATP (adenosine

triphosphate).

In 1996, nutritionist Wolcott introduced me to another

metabolic balancing protocol, based on the autonomic nervous system

(ANS). This Autonomic system, rooted in the early research of Francis

M. Pottenger, MD, and further developed by Kelley, DDS,

relies on a different metabolic pathway than the Oxidative system. It

looks to the relative dominance of the two divisions of the ANS

(sympathetic and parasympathetic) as the primary barometers of

metabolic balance. The main contribution of Wolcott himself, who had

worked for many years directly with Dr. Kelley, was the realization

that either one or the other of these two dominance systems -- as

Wolcott termed the Oxidative and Autonomic systems -- is the primary

factor controlling each individual's metabolism. This approach,

incorporating both dominance systems, is what we now refer to as

Metabolic Typing (see Figure I).

The singular importance of determining oxidative or autonomic

dominance is that most foods and supplements are processed differently

in each system, producing a different pH effect at the level of the

blood, For example, fruits and vegetables are generally considered to

be alkaline-forming, and so indeed most of them are within the

Autonomic system; but within the Oxidative system they have precisely

the opposite effect, and are actually acid-forming. Conversely,

protein foods are generally considered to be acid forming, and while

most of them are indeed acid forming within the Autonomic system, they

are actually alkaline-forming within the Oxidative system. Because one

of the two members of both dominance systems (the Fast Oxidizer and

the Sympathetic) already runs on the acid side at the level of the

blood pH, feeding them foods that further acidify their blood would be

counterproductive. Conversely, feeding alkaline-forming foods to the

two types that already run on the alkaline side (the Slow Oxidizer and

the Parasympathetic) would also be counterproductive. But, given that

what is acid-forming in one dominance system is alkaline-forming in

the other system, we end up with two types with opposite blood pHs --

one from each dominance system -- sharing the nutritional

requirements.

Thus, what we refer to as the Group I diet -- lower in protein and

fat, and higher in complex carbohydrates -- is shared by the overly

alkaline Slow Oxidizer and the overly acidic Sympathetic. Because the

same foods have opposite pH effects in members of the two dominance

systems, the Group I foods acidify the overly alkaline Slow Oxidizer

while alkalinizing the overly acid Sympathetic, thereby helping to

move both types towards a balance point, albeit from opposite

directions. Similarly, the Group II diet -- higher in protein and fat,

and lower in complex carbohydrates -- helps to alkalinize the overly

acidic Fast Oxidizer and acidify the overly alkaline Parasympathetic.

Thus, from a Metabolic Typing perspective, the pH effect of any given

food is not fixed, as is usually assumed, but is determined to a large

extent by the particular metabolism (or, more accurately, by which

dominance system controls the metabolism) of the individual consuming

it (see Figure II).

By identifying the correct dominance system and Metabolic Type, our

objective is to use dietary modification to optimize blood pH and

thereby balance the individual's metabolism.

This brief introduction to the principles of Metabolic Typing is

intended to provide a context for the results of a patient survey that

we recently conducted at our Metabolic Nutrition clinic in San ,

California. I began working with the Oxidative system of Metabolic

Typing in 1987, and since then have typed over 6,000 individuals. In

1996 I switched to the integrated form of Metabolic Typing

(incorporating the Autonomic system along with the Oxidative), and

have worked to refine our methodology over the ensuing years. The data

in the survey are drawn from approximately 1,450 patients typed since

the year 2000. At this point, I feel that our typing protocol has

approximately a 90% accuracy rate.

Diabetes, Cancer and Excess Weight Survey

Sometime in 1997 I started to notice a pattern emerging among our

patient population: most of those with Type H diabetes were the Group

II Metabolic Types (Fast Oxidizers or Parasympathetics) while most of

those with cancer were Group I Metabolic Types (Slow Oxidizers or

Sympathetics). After informally saying for several years that each of

these figures was around 80%, I decided to instruct my staff to

analyze our recent patient files and determine the exact numbers. We

also tallied the percentages of individuals coming to our clinic with

weight problems. The results (which are shown below, in Figure III)

more or less confirmed my original suspicions.

Because we are practicing nutrition, not medicine, it is important to

stress that we neither diagnose nor treat diseases in our clinic. The

above individuals had already been medically diagnosed with either

cancer or diabetes, whereas excess weight was defined as 10lbs or

greater above the individual's target weight. What we do offer is

nutritional guidance tailored primarily to the individual's Metabolic

Type, and secondarily to their particular health condition.

My estimate of 80% of diabetics being Group II Metabolic Types was not

too far off. The survey shows that the actual number is 72%. Of these,

the majority (50%) are Fast Oxidizers. At first glance this may seem

counterintuitive, because Fast Oxidizers, by definition, metabolize

carbohydrates rapidly (leading to their relatively acid blood pH).

Fast Oxidizers typically have an aggressive insulin response, which

efficiently " unlocks " the insulin receptors on the cell membrane to

allow glucose to be taken inside the cell to be oxidized for energy.

However, if you combine an accelerated metabolism of carbohydrates

with the excessive long-term intake of refined carbohydrates that

typifies the standard American diet, you have the perfect setup for

insulin resistance. Large amounts of insulin produced over an extended

period of time will lead to a " blunting, " or reduction of the

sensitivity of the insulin receptors, increasingly reducing their

efficiency, a process analogous to th a greater tendency to develop

these diseases, a tendency that can be significantly reduced by

modifying the diet according to the recommendations for the relevant

Metabolic Type. While a tendency does not imply a predictable result,

clearly it makes sense to do whatever one reasonably can to avoid such

a result. Metabolic Typing can be seen as a powerful preventative tool

that points individuals towards a way of eating that will help to

minimize the possibility of the development of these degenerative

disease conditions while maximizing the possibility of a long and

healthy life.

Figure 1

Metabolic Dominance Systems

Oxidative System Autonomic System

Slow Oxidizer (alkaline) Sympathetic (acid)

Fast Oxidizer (acid) Parasympathetic (alkaline)

Figure II

Group I and Group II Diets

Group I Group II

Slow Oxidizer (alkaline) Fast Oxidizer (acid)

Sympathetic (acid) Parasympathetic (alkaline)

Lower in protein and fat Higher in protein and fat

Higher in complex carbs Lower in complex carbs

Group I foods acidify the overly Group II foods alkalize the

alkaline Slow oxidizer, but overly acidic Fast Oxidizer,

alkalize the overly acid but acidify the overly

Sympathetic alkaline Parasympathetic

Figure III

Diabetes, Cancer and Excess Weight Survey Based on an analysis of

approximately 1,450 patient files

Diet Groups and Diabetes Cancer Overweight

Metabolic Types (Type II)

Group I

Slow Oxidizers 16% 35% 15%

Sympathetics 12% 43% 25%

Group I Totals 28% 78% 40%

Group II

Fast Oxidizers 50% 19% 47%

Parasympathetics 22% 3% 13%

Group II Totals 72% 22% 60%

Bibliography

Bland, S., Ph.D. Genetic Nutritioneering. Keats, 1999

Reaven, Gerald M., MD. Pathophysiology of Insulin Resistance in Human

Disease. Physiological Reviews 75(3):473-485, 1995

Pottenger, Francis M., MD. Symptoms of Visceral Disease. Mosby, 1944

Taubes, . The Soft Science of Dietary Fats. Science, March 30, 2001

What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie? New York Times Magazine, July 7, 2002

, , PhD. Nutrition and Your Mind: The Psychochemical

Response. Harper and Row, 1972

Wiley, Rudolf A., PhD. BioBalance. Essential Science Publishing, 1998

Wolcott, . The Metabolic Typing Diet. Doubleday, 2000

Dr. Harold J. Kristal is a pioneer in the emerging field of Metabolic

Typing, He maintains a busy clinical practice in San ,

California, as well as teaching regular Personalized Metabolic

Nutrition Seminars to interested health professionals. He is the

author, with M. Haig, NC, of The Nutrition Solution: A Guide to

Your Metabolic Type (North Atlantic Books). For a schedule of

up-coming Personalized Metabolic Nutrition Seminars for health

professionals on the theory and practice of Metabolic Typing, please

e-mail pmn@..., or call 800-772.0646, extension 202.

COPYRIGHT 2003 The Townsend Letter Group

COPYRIGHT 2003 Gale Group

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3230/is_6_32/ai_63694097

LifePoint, Inc. (Ontario, CA) has filed a patent to provide specific

blood-equivalent results from saliva testing. The patent application

makes 40 broad claims about the technology, which the company says can

be used by both healthcare professionals and consumers alike. Because

pH can influence results, a simultaneous measurement of pH improves

the accuracy of the tests. Blood-equivalent saliva tests have numerous

applications because they are quick, easy, and noninvasive, says the

company.

[Guest guest]

Wanita,

I appreciate your posting this, but I'm afraid it's all to much for me while

my head is still reeling from sugar and fruit issues. <g> Maybe I can look

at it more carefully at some future time.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

....Of course, it's also true that they consumed lots more minerals and

lots

> more fat-soluble activators. Why? They generally ate bone, they ate

> better foods, they ate foods raised on better soils, etc. So to me,

the

> take-home message is to get plenty of minerals, eat bone in some

form or

> other, get plenty of fat-soluble activators, and don't worry about this

> acid-alkaline nonsense. None of Price's healthy natives were juicing

> fruits and vegetables, and none of them were on a diet of 80% fruits

and

> vegetables and 20% meats and grains. The more vegetarian the natives'

> diets, the less healthy they were, all else being equal.

,

The above is really what I wished to express, and I thank you. Like I

said, I haven't read the acid-alkaline books, so I don't know their

precepts, but could clearly see it irritated you and didn't know how

to get past it.

B.

B.

[Guest guest]

> , ,

>

> There's a similar alkalinity, ash, pH discussion on another thread.

> Hopefully this metabolic typing article and patent applied for to

> determine saliva to blood pH will shed some light on what apparently

> means that all ash pH outside the body does not produce either

> alkalinity or acidity in everyone.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2003_Feb-March/ai_97994371

Wanita,

My head dang near asploded but it was interesting. I agree that ash

pH outside the body may not predict the outcome post-digestion in all

folks but I am in over my head with this conversation. My idea I

wished to express is that measuring pH level of saliva (and/or other

body fluids) and controlling it with diet and wholesome lifestyle may

be useful therapeutically. I don't know from alkaline ash, vegetable

juice, 80% and whatnot.

You seem to know metabolic-typing so I'm going to ask for a few

comparisons:

In Ayurveda, pitta has acidic blood; they are not prone to cancer and

diabetes but to inflammation of all types, reflux and hypertension, to

name a few afflictions. They may strongly crave alcohol and meat,

which increases their acidity, and therefore--potentially--their

aggression; however, sweets are not bad for them, but good (not in

excess.)

Kapha is prone to type 2 diabetes and cancer--specifically, tumors.

Blood clots, varicose veins, congestion. Since these conditions would

indicate acid pH (in my mind, anyway)I reckon that it is a problem for

them.

I suspect they are not born that way, like pitta, but that it is

brought on by inactivity/stagnation and dietary indiscretions,

especially sweets--including too much grain and dairy--which they may

crave but are bad for them. Meat OTOH is good for them and

recommended over dairy.

Does this mean anything in your realm?

B.

[Guest guest]

,

> http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2003_Feb-March/ai_97994371

>

> My head dang near asploded but it was interesting. I agree that ash

> pH outside the body may not predict the outcome post-digestion in all

> folks but I am in over my head with this conversation. My idea I

> wished to express is that measuring pH level of saliva (and/or other

> body fluids) and controlling it with diet and wholesome lifestyle may

> be useful therapeutically. I don't know from alkaline ash, vegetable

> juice, 80% and whatnot.

Metabolic typing's principle is that any food or nutrient can have

opposite biochemical influences in different metabolic types. Meat,

low carb over alkalinized your client that needs more alkaline ash

foods to acidify his slow metabolism. Processed SAD carbs, low

protein, fat over acidified me that needs acid ash meat, fat, low carb

to alkalinize my fast metabolism. Both of us experienced muscle

wasting. Diets prior produced same effect from opposite sources.

Metabolic types opposite. This is a simplistic explanation.

Urine and saliva pH do not accurately correspond to blood plasma pH,

the determiner of acidity, alkalinity, fast, slow metabolism in the

research of and Wiley. For example, the vegetables found to

alkinialize and not further acidify protein type fast metabolizers is

slim. They are asparagus, fresh beans, cauliflower, celery. mushrooms,

spinach, artichokes, carrots, peas, fried potatoes, winter squash,

dried beans and lentils. Fruit is avocado, olive, some apple, pear and

banana. Depends what is in any juice. Citrus and tomato would acidify

any fast metabolizer most.

> You seem to know metabolic-typing so I'm going to ask for a few

> comparisons:

>

> In Ayurveda, pitta has acidic blood; they are not prone to cancer and

> diabetes but to inflammation of all types, reflux and hypertension, to

> name a few afflictions. They may strongly crave alcohol and meat,

> which increases their acidity, and therefore--potentially--their

> aggression; however, sweets are not bad for them, but good (not in

> excess.)

More commonalities like the serpents. My Metabolic Man, 10,000 Years

from Eden is out on loan so I'm writing from memory. Elliot Abravenel,

researcher not referenced in article types by body type, organ

dominance and cravings. What I remember is adrenal craves alcohol and

meat but needs more dairy, seems pitta dominant. Thyroid craves flour,

sugar and caffeine, needs high protein, fat, low carb and seems vata

dominant.

>

> Kapha is prone to type 2 diabetes and cancer--specifically, tumors.

> Blood clots, varicose veins, congestion. Since these conditions would

> indicate acid pH (in my mind, anyway)I reckon that it is a problem for

> them.

> I suspect they are not born that way, like pitta, but that it is

> brought on by inactivity/stagnation and dietary indiscretions,

> especially sweets--including too much grain and dairy--which they may

> crave but are bad for them. Meat OTOH is good for them and

> recommended over dairy.

Wiley found all diabetics had alkaline blood plasma pH and true

hypoglycemics had acid blood plasma pH. Hypoglycemia was one of my big

problems so I can understand his acid diet helping that. Article does

show that 72% of Kristal's diabetics are fast metabolizers but with a

pH opposite of hypoglycemics. Haven't sorted that out. Am further

befuddled with this further pitta and kapha info in relation to my

vata mind and the vata diet being closest to protein diet. I can see

that at other times in my life I responded more as a pitta and kapha.

Hope you come out of this a little clearer and confused like me.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

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>Also, in the last year, I have been drinking perhaps a quart of

>vegetable juice a day-- which I think reasonable, perhaps a minimal amount,

>given that I'm not eating vegetables.

A MINIMAL amount? How many pounds of vegetables do you have to juice to

get a quart of juice? I know when I juice ginger, I get something like a

pint of juice from, I don't know, three or four or maybe even five pounds

of ginger (which I then peel). Granted, ginger is less juicy than other

juice sources, but still. And I'm not necessarily denying that some people

do well with lots of vegetable juice, though I think most juicing fanatics

are idealogues who ignore their own ill health, but that sounds rather high.

>But perhaps we are in disagreement about the result to be desired. I do

>think a high alkaline reading for salivia has been the foundation of my

>new-found dental health and likely health in other areas as well.

Your dental health yes, because teeth are remineralized by saliva, and

acidic saliva will prevent remineralization. Also, sufficiently alkaline

saliva is a rough and maybe not necessarily accurate indicator that there's

enough calcium in your saliva.

I wouldn't say it means any more than that, though.

-

[Guest guest]

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> but could clearly see it irritated you and didn't know how

>to get past it.

Sorry if I'm being irritable, but I guess I can't deny that I am sometimes.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>My idea I

>wished to express is that measuring pH level of saliva (and/or other

>body fluids) and controlling it with diet and wholesome lifestyle may

>be useful therapeutically.

It can probably be extremely useful, but I'm guessing that its long-term

utility will depend entirely on whether you ignore most of the standard

saliva-testers' advice. It always seems to fall along the lines of " cut

out meat and eat lots more carbs " . Some vegetable juicing may well be

useful, but eating bones is also great.

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[Guest guest]

> Sorry if I'm being irritable, but I guess I can't deny that I am

sometimes.

,

No need to apologize, I like you just the way you are. What I would

like is to be more confident like you, frankly.

B.

[Guest guest]

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>No need to apologize, I like you just the way you are. What I would

>like is to be more confident like you, frankly.

You'd find yourself pissing off a lot more people, then. <g>

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