Re: AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

,

I am sorry you are having these health problems with your baby. I wish I had

some answers, but I don't. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family

today.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

I am thinking when i get my kefir grains again I will give her kefir as

it should take at least some of the lactose out of normal milk (then I

can at least use normal pasturized milk) but I am not sure how she

respond to the taste, she does not like sour at all. What would be the

best sweetener to use concidering she drinks about a liter a day and

she is a year old?!

####### I'd go with maple syrup - I've used tiny bits with my 8 month

old when I make kefir cheese out of kefir (just strain the whey out

until it's the consistency of cottage/ricotta cheese). Fortunately, he

likes sour stuff okay.

I'm so sorry you're having such problems !!! My baby is 8 months old

and still nursing. I was so adamant about it I didn't introduce the

first bottle till he was 5 months old and I was going back to work in 3

days !! It did stress him out a bit but he took the bottle with no

problems. He still nurses mornings/evenings and on weekend, including

every night at least twice. Funny: I haven't slept through the night in

over 6 months and I feel great !!

My thoughts are with you. I hope everything will get back to " normal "

soon.

Magda

[Guest guest]

--- Siemens <amandasiemens@...> wrote:

> So UHT pasturized is the same as ultra pasturized?

Yes, it is.

See Mother 's article in the current issue of WT.

UHT is just the fancy name that Parmalat created for ultr-pasteurised milk.

I think it means " Ultra High Temperature " .

BTW, there is a movement afoot in the US among the large-scale dairy industry to

mandate

*all* milk to be UHT.

If that succeeds (or rather, *when* that succeeds), you won't find regular

pasteurised

milk in grocery stores at all.

The primary motive behind that is to throw all the small scale farmers and

dairies out of

business, plus total disregard for the hygience and care of the dairy cows

(since all

milk will the UHT treated anyway).

I hope that never happens here in Canada (at least not in my lifetime)

> we will either be

> buying a farm or at least 10 or so acres of land, then we will have

> grass fed raw milk, beef, and pastured poultry and can raise most of

> our produce organically ourselves.

Will you be selling any of that?

If so, count me as one of the first customers

-Pratick

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice! Since she just took yogurt without sweetening

for the first time I will try it with straite kefir and see if she

wont drink it without any sweetening too!!

I'd go with maple syrup - I've used tiny bits with my 8 month

> old when I make kefir cheese out of kefir (just strain the whey

out

> until it's the consistency of cottage/ricotta cheese).

Fortunately, he

> likes sour stuff okay.

> I'm so sorry you're having such problems !!! My baby is 8 months

old

> and still nursing. I was so adamant about it I didn't introduce

the

> first bottle till he was 5 months old and I was going back to work

in 3

> days !! It did stress him out a bit but he took the bottle with no

> problems. He still nurses mornings/evenings and on weekend,

including

> every night at least twice. Funny: I haven't slept through the

night in

> over 6 months and I feel great !!

> My thoughts are with you. I hope everything will get back

to " normal "

> soon.

> Magda

[Guest guest]

What! No way!!!! Don't you know it's illegal!?! ::looks to the left

then to the right:: Psst. You. yeah you. c'mere. Wanna buy

some ::looks around again:: REAL milk? ::ominous music:: tee hee. I

might dauble in the black market a bit ;-)

>

> Will you be selling any of that?

> If so, count me as one of the first customers

>

> -Pratick

[Guest guest]

Practick wrote:

> --- Siemens <amandasiemens@...> wrote:

> > So UHT pasturized is the same as ultra pasturized?

>

> Yes, it is.

> See Mother 's article in the current issue of WT.

> UHT is just the fancy name that Parmalat created for ultr-pasteurised milk.

> I think it means " Ultra High Temperature " .

According to my research, UHT and ultra-pasteurization have similarities, but

are " not " the same. UHT milk is processed longer, and is essentially

" sterilized " . That is what you see on the grocery store shelf

(unrefrigerated)in aseptic packaging . Ultra-pasteurization does extend the

shelf life, but still need refrigeration. In Canada, commercial whipping

cream is routinely ultra-pasteurized.

This is from the National Dairy Council

<http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/NationalDairyCouncil/Nutrition/Products/mil\

kPage5.htm>

" Ultrapasteurization. This is the process of heating fluid dairy products at

or above 280 & deg;F for at least 2 seconds to destroy all pathogenic

organisms. Ultrapasteurized products are packaged in an aseptic atmosphere in

presterilized containers and refrigerated. These milk products have an

extended shelf life (14 to 28 days at refrigerated temperatures), with little

effect on their nutritive value.

Ultrahigh Temperature. Ultrahigh temperature (UHT) milk products are heated

to 275 to 302 & deg;F for 4 to 15 seconds. These products are packaged

aseptically in specially designed multilayer containers. The heat treatment

and packaging allow these milk products to be stored at room temperature for

extended periods of time. Ultrahigh temperature processing may cause some

loss of folate, vitamin C (which is already low in milk), vitamin B12 , and

thiamin. "

~~ Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

I also contains a lot more than cream!!! I can't wait to get my source

of nice (pasturized but organic and not full of additives) whipping

cream from the health store:-) or would that be ultra pasturized too?

In Canada, commercial whipping

> cream is routinely ultra-pasteurized.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> I also contains a lot more than cream!!! I can't wait to get my source

> of nice (pasturized but organic and not full of additives) whipping

> cream from the health store:-) or would that be ultra pasturized too?

>

The only brand I can get locally is Organic Meadow. It is pasteurized, but

not ultra-pasteurized. I have also found that it keeps longer than the

best-before date indicates.

~` Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Siemens [mailto:amandasiemens@...]

>

> Oh it's so pathetic!!!!! How can the food industry

> sleep at night when it makes REAL food so hard to come by and

> so EXPENSIVE that you have to be rich to afford it?! What

> about people like me who is downright POOR but get soooooo

> sick on " normal " food?! It's wrong wrong WRONG!!!

Don't blame the food industries--blame your fellow shoppers. When shoppers

choose on the basis of price, without respect to quality, companies must

compete on the basis of price, without respect to quality. Under such

conditions, they must, if they want to stay in business, sacrifice quality

to cut costs. Most people are not willing to pay more for pasteurized milk

than for ultrapasteurized milk (in fact, some prefer the latter because of

its long shelf life), so that's what companies make. Don't like it? You

should go to the root of the problem and educate other consumers, rather

than railing vainly against the food industries.

[Guest guest]

Quoting jag14 <jag14@...>:

> wrote:

> > I also contains a lot more than cream!!! I can't wait to get my source

> > of nice (pasturized but organic and not full of additives) whipping

> > cream from the health store:-) or would that be ultra pasturized too?

>

> The only brand I can get locally is Organic Meadow. It is pasteurized,

> but

> not ultra-pasteurized. I have also found that it keeps longer than the

> best-before date indicates.

In the United States, at least, the date on dairy products is usually the

sell-by date. Stores will generally stop selling after this date, but it

should still be good for several days afterwards.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

-

>Don't blame the food industries--blame your fellow shoppers. When shoppers

>choose on the basis of price, without respect to quality, companies must

>compete on the basis of price, without respect to quality. Under such

>conditions, they must, if they want to stay in business, sacrifice quality

>to cut costs. Most people are not willing to pay more for pasteurized milk

>than for ultrapasteurized milk (in fact, some prefer the latter because of

>its long shelf life), so that's what companies make. Don't like it? You

>should go to the root of the problem and educate other consumers, rather

>than railing vainly against the food industries.

And of course the food industries had no part in the current state of

affairs, including the level of eduction of current consumers. That's

right. None. Zip. Silly of us to think otherwise.

-

[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Idol [mailto:Idol@...]

> -

> >Don't blame the food industries--blame your fellow shoppers. When

> >shoppers choose on the basis of price, without respect to quality,

> >companies must compete on the basis of price, without respect to

> >quality. Under such conditions, they must, if they want to stay in

> >business, sacrifice quality to cut costs. Most people are

> not willing

> >to pay more for pasteurized milk than for ultrapasteurized milk (in

> >fact, some prefer the latter because of its long shelf

> life), so that's

> >what companies make. Don't like it? You should go to the root of the

> >problem and educate other consumers, rather than railing

> vainly against the food industries.

>

> And of course the food industries had no part in the current

> state of affairs, including the level of eduction of current

> consumers. That's right. None. Zip. Silly of us to think

> otherwise.

No doubt " they " (I put " they " in quotes because many of " them " are dead or

no longer affiliated with the food industries) did, as did so-called

" consumer advocates " like the CSPI and politicians afflicted with the " do

something " disease. Government has for decades controlled most of the

nutritional education in this country, and powerful governments tend to be

influenced by pressure groups which have a financial or ideological stake in

their decisions.

But the fact remains that consumer choice rules in a free society. No one

would make UHT milk if people weren't willing to buy it, and companies can't

profitably produce raw or unhomogenized milk and sell it at low prices

because there isn't enough demand for the vast quantities that would be

required to drive down costs via economies of scale. The food industries

don't care what you or I think of them--they care what people buy. If you

want cheap, high-quality food on the shelves of every grocery store, the

only way to get it is to convince millions of others to buy it.

[Guest guest]

-

>But the fact remains that consumer choice rules in a free society. No one

>would make UHT milk if people weren't willing to buy it, and companies can't

>profitably produce raw or unhomogenized milk and sell it at low prices

>because there isn't enough demand for the vast quantities that would be

>required to drive down costs via economies of scale. The food industries

>don't care what you or I think of them--they care what people buy. If you

>want cheap, high-quality food on the shelves of every grocery store, the

>only way to get it is to convince millions of others to buy it.

Fascinating how in your worldview, when there are multiple parties

responsible for a given state of affairs, only the consumer gets the blame.

One thing I'd like to point out is that raw milk cannot by definition

achieve the economies of scale that pasteurized and ultrapasteurized dairy can.

-

[Guest guest]

--- Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Fascinating how in your worldview, when there are multiple parties

> responsible for a given state of affairs, only the consumer gets the blame.

>

> One thing I'd like to point out is that raw milk cannot by definition

> achieve the economies of scale that pasteurized and ultrapasteurized dairy

can.

Correct, and for this reason, I believe that raw milk can exist only in the

small scale,

personalised farming scenario or as pockets in a large, capitalist idustrialist

scenario

(like it does currently)

I don't think there is a way for raw milk (or grass-fed meat for that matter) to

exist as

a viable product in a capitalist industralised society.

There are only two types of societies where it can exist on a large scale - in a

feudal

society (mideaval times and developing countries) or in an advanced communist

society

with communal agriculture and communal production (which we are yet to see till

date -

does not include the totalitarian societies of Stalinist USSR or Maoist China).

But we are drifting OT very fast here.....

-Pratick

__________________________________

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