Re: Kidney pain and low carbing

[Guest guest]

Kim:

>I also stoppped using Stevia. This was the only new dietary change I made

>besides cutting out sugar. Heidi, I think I remember you saying you were

>allergic to Stevia. How did you find out? Mucscle testing? Do you think

>there could be any connection with Stevia and kidney pain?

Not me, AFAIK I'm not allergic to it. I tried it once and hated the taste.

I did get a stevia plant once too. They are fairly easy to grow.

I'm also not a low carber. When I tried a low carb diet I got migraines a lot

and couldn't sleep. Migraines may have been from too much cheese: I've learned

since that casein does that to me. But if I don't eat carbs at night I don't

sleep well, which is also why I quit the " eat like a King in the morning "

routine,

which actually is a lot like the Warrior Diet but with the main meal in the AM.

But I'm not *anti* low carb either ... it's a diet that does seem to

work very well for some people, esp. some of the folks on this

list who don't rely on those fake low-carb products.

>When you are in ketosis does this stess the kidneys?

That's one of those big controversies! I haven't seen incontrovertable

evidence one way or another. For one thing, people tend to use

" ketosis " and " ketoacidosis " interchangeably. For another thing,

few low carbers actually track the amount of protein they are

ingesting, so if they DO have problems it might be just too much

protein. And lastly, " low carbing " has become almost like religion

or politics in that both sides are really, really adamant ... whether or

not they have much evidence. There were some women who died

on high-protein low-fat diets when I was a teen, but they were

eating liquid protein AND I think they were pretty thin to begin with.

The article below (go look at the original though, I'm not quoting

much of it) gives I think a pretty balanced view and has links

to some of the evidence pro and con. Sounds like the kidney

excretes ammonia during ketosis, which is more harmful if

it builds up (not drinking enough water). That might account for

the pain too, ammonia is pretty irritating.

http://patrifriedman.com/writing/journal/expat/975ketosis.html

Ketones are acidic and mildly poisonous. Two major ketones are acetoacetic acid

and beta-hydroxybutyric acid, which are strong organic acids. Excreting them

causes the loss of sodium and potassium. The way acetoacetic acid is broken down

(spontaneous decarboxylation) produces acetone - not a nice thing to have in

your bloodstream. Acetone accumulates in plasma and is slowly disposed of by

respiration

(<http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section2/chapter13/13b.htm>reference).

This doesn't mean that ketosis is terrible for you, just that we shouldn't

assume its totally safe without evidence. Luckily, the medical literature

contains several references on " ketogenic " diets - diets which are low in carbs

and induce ketosis. While most of us are interested in low-carb diets for cardio

health or weight loss, these diets are studied for a different reason - they

help prevent seizures

(<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_u\

ids=11581442 & dopt=Abstract>study showing effectiveness) . This dietary approach

to controlling seizures is used when there are reasons not to use drugs, such as

children who are epileptic. By looking at this literaure, we can obtain a more

balanced viewpoint than that of Dr. Atkins. Brief summaries of the articles I

found are below, along with links to their abstracts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=2\

679056 & dopt=Abstract

Ammonium excretion in chronic metabolic acidosis: benefits and risks.

Halperin ML, Ethier JH, Kamel KS.

Renal Division, St 's Hospital, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

The expected renal response to a chronic acid load is an enhanced rate of

ammonium production and excretion. Notwithstanding, high rates of ammonium

production and/or excretion on a chronic basis may have detrimental consequences

to patients. Examples discussed include the loss of extra lean body mass during

chronic fasting, an accelerated rate of progression of renal insufficiency and

possibly destruction of the medullary area of the kidney owing to local

alkalinization.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

0897637 & dopt=Abstract

Cyclic vomiting with ketosis as a cause of acute kidney dysfunction: own

clinical experience]

[Article in Polish]

Ostrowska-Nawarycz L, Rapacka E, Baszczynski J, Gorski P, Czajka J, Makowski M,

Kudzin A.

Katedry Pediatrii Wojskowej Akademii Medycznej w Lodzi.

The aim of the study was to evaluate renal activity during cyclic vomiting with

ketosis. The clinical material was obtained from 50 cases of children

hospitalized in Department of Pediatrics Military Medical University within

1993-1999 what makes about 1% of all patients. The examined group consisted of

26 boys (52%) and 24 girls (48%). Three of the children were repeatedly

hospitalized (3 to 8 times) because of acetonemic vomiting. The special

attention during the laboratory studies was paid to evaluation of renal

activity. Vomiting with ketosis were associated with temporary kidneys acute

dysfunction in 46% of cases. In 98% of cases the parenteral hydration was

necessary. Ketonemic vomiting with kidneys dysfunction was observed mainly with

the children in pre-school age.

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Heidi you are an amazing wealth of information!!

Thanks

Kim

[Guest guest]

>Heidi you are an amazing wealth of information!!

>Thanks

>Kim

Thanks! Around here I usually hear " Heidi, that

is more than I wanted to know! " (related to

" Mom, PLEASE don't tell me what is in it! " ).

Heidi Jean