Re: More Hofmekler nonsense

[Guest guest]

> Hofmekler has plenty of interesting things to say, but some of them

seem to

> be little more than " just so " stories. I've always been mystified

by his

> assertion that undereating/starvation is an anabolic stimulus, for

> example. If the body thinks there's no food, why would it rearrange

itself

> to consume MORE calories?

,

FWIW none of the senior KB instructors/strength coaches I know use the

WD themselves nor recommend it to clients except maybe for weight loss.

B.

[Guest guest]

> Hofmekler has plenty of interesting things to say, but some of them

seem to

> be little more than " just so " stories. I've always been mystified

by his

> assertion that undereating/starvation is an anabolic stimulus, for

> example. If the body thinks there's no food, why would it rearrange

itself

> to consume MORE calories? And in his latest newsletter, there's

this bon mot:

>

> >It has been established that people in different climates differ in

their

> >capacity to utilize foods. By virtue of adaptation to the arctic

climate,

> >Inuits fare better on raw fish and blubber. Native Africans who have

> >adapted to a warm, tropical climate, survive better on grains or

fruits.

>

> I wonder what he'd have to say about the Masai.

>

>

>

> -

I believe that the more stressful the environment, the more animal fat

and animal products of all sorts are needed to survive the extra

stress. But like you pointed out, the Masai are one of the most

robust tribes of Africa. Also, many tropical tribes had access to a

lot of seafoods.

People just can't get past the current view of fat and cholestorol.

Although it is possible to survive in a more hospitable environment on

less animal/sea foods, it is certianly not necessary to limit the

amount of nutritious animal foods.

I would like to see a tribe who lived off of only grains and fruits.

Unless they were eating a lot of coconut and/or insects, I would

expect them to be quite pathetic compared to the Masai.

[Guest guest]

> FWIW none of the senior KB instructors/strength coaches I know use the

> WD themselves nor recommend it to clients except maybe for weight loss.

,

They do, however--to a one--take creatine. Will you opine?

Teesa B.

[Guest guest]

On 9/20/05, implode7@... <implode7@...> wrote:

> What special insight into nutrition would you expect a kb instructor to

> have? Mike Mahler is a vegetarian and relies on soy for most of his protein,

> doesn't he?

He uses pea protein isolate.

Chris

--

Statin Drugs Kill Your Brain

And Cause Transient Global Amnesia:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Statin-Drugs-Side-Effects.html

[Guest guest]

> On 9/20/05, implode7@... <implode7@...> wrote:

>

> > What special insight into nutrition would you expect a kb instructor to

> > have? Mike Mahler is a vegetarian and relies on soy for most of his protein,

> > doesn't he?

>

> He uses pea protein isolate.

>

> Chris

He used soy as of a couple of years ago.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > > What special insight into nutrition would you expect a kb

instructor to

> > > have? Mike Mahler is a vegetarian and relies on soy for most of

his protein,

> > > doesn't he?

> >

> > He uses pea protein isolate.

> >

> > Chris

>

> He used soy as of a couple of years ago.

Pea protein isolate is still iffy in my book. Peas contain a known

factor that will cause females to be ~%50 less able to conceive. Its

on a sidebar in Nourishing Traditions. Its what has kept the Tibetan

population steady over the centuries.

Not something I would risk taking in large amounts.

[Guest guest]

> reported gaining some muscle mass with CEE that dropped off as

soon

> as he stopped taking it, so I don't know how durable the gains

realized by

> creatine supplementation are...

,

That is exactly what was described as proof that it works: loss of

muscle mass when they stopped supplementing. Also, a guy I used to

date swore by it for the same reason. Hmm.

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>That is exactly what was described as proof that it works: loss of

>muscle mass when they stopped supplementing. Also, a guy I used to

>date swore by it for the same reason. Hmm.

Oh, I believe it definitely works, at least for the large majority of

people who aren't creatine non-responders. (I'm not sure how many people

are non-responders, actually, but it seems like a small percentage from

what I've read.) The only question in my mind is whether it's a good idea,

and like I said, I figure it's probably OK if not taken to extremes.

-

[Guest guest]

On 9/20/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> That is exactly what was described as proof that it works: loss of

> muscle mass when they stopped supplementing. Also, a guy I used to

> date swore by it for the same reason. Hmm.

Well that would seem to indicate that the muscle mass is resulting

directly from the creatine, because abnormally high levels of creatine

in the muscle are inflating it, rather than a secondary effect from

the extra strength boost you get, which should have a semi-permanent

effect. So, the question is, what's the optimal muscle level of

creatine, and is there any long-term drawback to artificially raising

that level considerably higher than normal?

Also, we know that the body's own synthesis of creatine is depressed

with supplementation, but we don't know whether any permanent changes

occur through long-term use. I've also heard stories about heart

trouble from creatine, but I think that's just people speculating.

I would think it would be fine to consume as much as one would get

from a raw meat diet, since you'd essentially be supplementing to

replace what your losing in a compromised diet. But I'd worry that

what some people are taking might be excessive, and we don't know the

long-term drawbacks.

Personally, I figure if I can just attain the same weight and take a

while longer to do it, why make myself dependent on another $60/month

habit? I mean, if creatine had some permanent effect where you gained

50% more muscle every month I could definitely see it. But it seems

like it's effect is to put on 10-15 lbs over the course of a month,

and then you have to keep using it indefinitely in order not to lose

that weight.

I'm not sure though. I don't have any definite opinions on it.

Chris

--

Statin Drugs Kill Your Brain

And Cause Transient Global Amnesia:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Statin-Drugs-Side-Effects.html

[Guest guest]

> What special insight into nutrition would you expect a kb instructor

to have? Mike Mahler is a vegetarian and relies on soy for most of his

protein, doesn't he?

Gene,

My reasoning for the comment is: these people are all within the

auspices of DragonDoor, yet none of them seem to follow the WD. If

anyone promoted it, I'd expect it to be this crowd.

Re: Mike M., worse, he's a vegan. He doesn't eat soy but for tempeh

a few times a week, nor does he recommend others eat it, ironically,

because of the estrogen factors. I suspect his vitiligo is from B-12

deficiency.

Due to the vegan thing, he consumes a large proportion of processed

foods made with heinous additives, not to mention he uses tetra-paks

of rice milk and canned beans, etc. instead of preparing these things

himself.

Oddly enough, he just had a complete work-up from his doctor and has

very high enzyme activity as well as healthy hormone levels--which

appeared to surprise him, I might add--except one was a little low, I

think it was HGH.

His tongue is a very healthy pink (and doesn't yet show signs of B-12

deficiency, now that I think of it, so maybe there goes that theory)

but a tongue like that and high enzyme activity is to be expected in

someone with his level of ambition. Someone like that can eat a lot of

crap and burn it off. Infuriating. There was something off about his

tongue but I don't recall what it was. Will check next time and

tattle. Not.

B.

[Guest guest]

> Hmmm. Does that include Pavel? Thought he was a Warrior Diet guy.

Ron,

I'm not sure about Pavel; I'll ask. That man glows. I wonder if

it's from old-country nutrition.

B.

[Guest guest]

The only question in my mind is whether it's a good idea,

> and like I said, I figure it's probably OK if not taken to extremes.

,

Yeah, it was mentioned not to load it, just add some in. I dislike

supplements, but I might be just vain enough to try it. Ron? Gene?

Any opinion?

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>(and doesn't yet show signs of B-12

>deficiency, now that I think of it, so maybe there goes that theory)

Some people can take years to develop a B12 deficiency since the body

(ideally) recycles it pretty efficiently.

-

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > What special insight into nutrition would you expect a kb instructor

> to have? Mike Mahler is a vegetarian and relies on soy for most of his

> protein, doesn't he?

>

> Gene,

> My reasoning for the comment is: these people are all within the

> auspices of DragonDoor, yet none of them seem to follow the WD. If

> anyone promoted it, I'd expect it to be this crowd.

I understand. I was bringing it up because I don't see how they would have the

expertise one way or the other. in other words, I don't think that by itself

this is particularly damning of the Warrior diet (which, personally, sounds like

a fad diet that holds no interest for me anyway).

>

> Re: Mike M., worse, he's a vegan. He doesn't eat soy but for tempeh

> a few times a week, nor does he recommend others eat it, ironically,

> because of the estrogen factors.

I could swear that a couple of years ago he used to use soy protein though? Or

has eating NT affected my memory?

> I suspect his vitiligo is from B-12

> deficiency.

> Due to the vegan thing, he consumes a large proportion of processed

> foods made with heinous additives, not to mention he uses tetra-paks

> of rice milk and canned beans, etc. instead of preparing these things

> himself.

>

> Oddly enough, he just had a complete work-up from his doctor and has

> very high enzyme activity as well as healthy hormone levels--which

> appeared to surprise him, I might add--except one was a little low, I

> think it was HGH.

>

> His tongue is a very healthy pink (and doesn't yet show signs of B-12

> deficiency, now that I think of it, so maybe there goes that theory)

> but a tongue like that and high enzyme activity is to be expected in

> someone with his level of ambition. Someone like that can eat a lot of

> crap and burn it off. Infuriating. There was something off about his

> tongue but I don't recall what it was. Will check next time and

> tattle. Not.

> B.

Well, in any case, he is undeniably a very athletic and strong guy.

[Guest guest]

> What diet do they follow, though?

,

AFAIK 2-3 meals/day. Mike M. eats moderate carb--how could he not?

Uber-trainer Steve Maxwell eats very like you, meaning high-fat with a

negligible level of carb. " I haven't eaten carbs in 11 years, " he said.

He looks downright string-y.

Supplements promoted: Zma (zinc/magnesium, lots of fish oil, CLA for

fat loss, esp. in the abdomen(he said it was a key factor to trim 14

lbs. off his wife when she went to compete in Brazil)

B.

[Guest guest]

> Some people can take years to develop a B12 deficiency since the body

> (ideally) recycles it pretty efficiently.

,

Yes, but I assumed that was the vitiligo. It's been five years of

veganism for him and five as a veg. before that. The toll will be

paid, no doubt.

B.

[Guest guest]

>

> The only question in my mind is whether it's a good idea,

> > and like I said, I figure it's probably OK if not taken to extremes.

>

> ,

> Yeah, it was mentioned not to load it, just add some in. I dislike

> supplements, but I might be just vain enough to try it. Ron? Gene?

> Any opinion?

> B.

>

I tried some for awhile a couple of years ago and noticed no difference at all.

I eventually gave it up because I have just grown suspicious of supplements. I

was taking quite a few at one point, and I just never noticed a difference.

This past week I tried drinking some young coconut juice during and after a

workout and noticed a dramatic difference. It was quite a strenuous workout for

me (10 swings a minute with a 72 pound kettlebell for 30 minutes up to about

neck level), and usually I'm quite fatigued after something like that. But I

felt good enough to actually do a few more exercises a bit later on.

I can't say that anything else I've ever tried had that much of an effect. I

wonder what was missing. I also noticed afterwards when doing some 1 arm presses

that my shoulder was much less sore than it has been. It is an experiement that

I'm going to repeat.

[Guest guest]

-

>AFAIK 2-3 meals/day. Mike M. eats moderate carb--how could he not?

Only moderate carb? As a vegan I'm surprised he can achieve this unless he

eats lots of protein concentrates or isolates and maybe a lot of CO or

something.

>Uber-trainer Steve Maxwell eats very like you, meaning high-fat with a

>negligible level of carb. " I haven't eaten carbs in 11 years, " he said.

>He looks downright string-y.

Stringy bad, or ropey good?

>Supplements promoted: Zma (zinc/magnesium, lots of fish oil, CLA for

>fat loss, esp. in the abdomen(he said it was a key factor to trim 14

>lbs. off his wife when she went to compete in Brazil)

Anyone who takes CLA supplements ought to know that the isomer(s) used in

supplements is NOT the one found in grass-fed animal foods, and

supplement-form CLA evidently induces insulin resistance and causes other

problems. Some people definitely benefit in the short term, at least

superficially, but it's bad news in the long run.

The problem with ZMA is that it's aspartate, which I think it's best to avoid.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>Yes, but I assumed that was the vitiligo.

Oh, right. Missed that somehow. Isn't a folate deficiency also associated

with that?

>The toll will be

>paid, no doubt.

Sadly so.

-

[Guest guest]

> I understand. I was bringing it up because I

> don't see how they would have the expertise

> one way or the other. in other words, I don't

> think that by itself this is particularly damning of the Warrior

> diet (which, personally, sounds like a fad

> diet that holds no interest for me anyway).

I've read it and besides the fact that it reads like

a giant Cosmo article for guys,

it's remarkably similar to the CAD diet by the Hellers

only packaged way better.

Connie

[Guest guest]

-

>

> ,

> FWIW none of the senior KB instructors/strength coaches I know use the

> WD themselves nor recommend it to clients except maybe for weight loss.

> B.

THANK YOU, thank you, thank you for saying this.

J

[Guest guest]

On 9/20/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> AFAIK 2-3 meals/day. Mike M. eats moderate carb--how could he not?

> Uber-trainer Steve Maxwell eats very like you, meaning high-fat with a

> negligible level of carb. " I haven't eaten carbs in 11 years, " he said.

> He looks downright string-y.

The _WD_ book boasts Pavel as a Warrior Diet. Perhaps he gave it up?

Or you're mis-remembering?

Chris

--

Statin Drugs Kill Your Brain

And Cause Transient Global Amnesia:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Statin-Drugs-Side-Effects.html

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Masterjohn

>

>The _WD_ book boasts Pavel as a Warrior Diet.

yum!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

On 9/20/05, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> >The _WD_ book boasts Pavel as a Warrior Diet.

>

> yum!

LOL! Oops! That's " . . . boasts Pavel as a Warrior Dieter. "

Chris

--

Statin Drugs Kill Your Brain

And Cause Transient Global Amnesia:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Statin-Drugs-Side-Effects.html

[Guest guest]

> I understand. I was bringing it up because I don't see how they

would have the expertise one way or the other. in other words, I don't

think that by itself this is particularly damning of the Warrior diet

(which, personally, sounds like a fad diet that holds no interest for

me anyway).

Gene,

Well, these guys--and girls--are lifestyle athletes. So they do read

all the books and check out all the supplements and even if they're

off on some things, they do take the nutrition/diet aspects very

seriously.

B.