Re: FROM THE LIST-OWNER -- A list for sausage and traditional meat preservation?

December 18, 2004

Hi ...I'm in! Renée :-)

I'm getting back into making sausage (I've been out for too long) and I'm

wondering whether there's any interest in a separate list dedicated to the

subjects of sausage and other forms of traditional preservation of meat in

accordance with NT/WAP principles like salt-curing, salt-and-sugar curing,

smoking, potting, etc.

December 18, 2004

At 01:00 PM 12/18/04 -0500, you wrote:

>

>I'm getting back into making sausage (I've been out for too long) and I'm

>wondering whether there's any interest in a separate list dedicated to the

>subjects of sausage and other forms of traditional preservation of meat in

>accordance with NT/WAP principles like salt-curing, salt-and-sugar curing,

>smoking, potting, etc.

Count me in, .

MFJ

Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

December 18, 2004

,

do you allow n00bs?

B.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:00:57 -0500, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

>

> I'm getting back into making sausage (I've been out for too long) and I'm

> wondering whether there's any interest in a separate list dedicated to the

> subjects of sausage and other forms of traditional preservation of meat in

> accordance with NT/WAP principles like salt-curing, salt-and-sugar curing,

> smoking, potting, etc. I'd like it to cover all sorts of traditional organ

> dishes, too, like puddings, pates, and so on. I'm actually on a low-volume

> sausage list, but while it's occasionally useful, it's populated

> exclusively by conventional types who use too little fat, no organs (except

> in the occasional leberwurst) and who replace fat with soy protein binders,

> corn syrup solids, and a witch's brew of other artificial and undesirable

> ingredients.

>

> I expect an NN-style sausage list would be pretty low in volume, but it

> might draw in some sausage types who wouldn't otherwise be exposed to

> traditional nutrition principles, so who knows. Let me know what you think.

>

> -

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December 18, 2004

> Count me in, .

Me too. I am hoping against hope that I'll get a food grinder and

sausage stuffer attachments for my KitchenAid at Christmas. Considering

the hubby and kids are sausage fools it may happen!

Lynn S.

who would really love to learn the secrets of salami-making...

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

December 18, 2004

-

>do you allow n00bs?

Heck yeah! In the larger scheme of things, I'm still a relative newbie at

sausage-making myself. I've made a dozen and a half batches at most,

though they've generally been pretty large (30# or so). I've yet to try

lacto-fermenting sausage, a state of affairs I plan to remedy ASAP, and

because I live in a NYC apartment I haven't been able to smoke or dry

sausages either, which is very frustrating.

Also, with the exception of leberwurst, I have yet to incorporate organ

meats into sausages even though making sausage with organ meats and innards

is the most traditional and nutritious, not to mention probably the most

tasty, way to do it.

So I still have a lot to learn, which is why I thought of starting a

group. If enough people are interested, we can get an ongoing conversation

going which will help all of us find better sources for raw materials and

make tastier, healthier sausages, pates, potted meats, etc.

It would be really great if we could attract some really proficient sausage

makers who are either already NN types or who see the wisdom of WAP/NT/etc.

and adopt our dietary principles.

Speaking of which, do any of you have any suggestions for the name of the

group? I'd like to incorporate either " native " or " nutrition " in the name

to establish its affiliation with this list and the principles underlying

it, but nothing that works has come to mind. Also, the only term I can

think of which encompasses pretty much all the kinds of foods I'd like the

list to cover is " charcuterie " , which probably isn't an especially

well-known term. " Nutritious Charcuterie " is the most accurate name I can

think of at the moment, but besides having all the grace of lead boots,

" nutritious " means different things to different people and " charcuterie "

might turn people off by sounding too technical, specialized and, well,

French. Pretty much the same goes for " Traditional Charcuterie " .

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

-

December 18, 2004

Lynn-

>Me too. I am hoping against hope that I'll get a food grinder and

>sausage stuffer attachments for my KitchenAid at Christmas. Considering

>the hubby and kids are sausage fools it may happen!

Cool, and good luck on Christmas! Let us know!

-

December 18, 2004

Count me in, . How about Basic Ingredient Sausage Making or Back to the

Basic Sausage? Was on a Back to Basics homesteading list.That would give a

homestyle, native, nutritious idea of the group.

Wanita

December 18, 2004

Wanita-

>Count me in, .

Cool!

>How about Basic Ingredient Sausage Making or Back to the

>Basic Sausage? Was on a Back to Basics homesteading list.That would give a

>homestyle, native, nutritious idea of the group.

Hmm, good ideas, except I'd rather find some word other than " sausage " ,

because I really want it to be about a lot more than sausage. Sausage

happens to be the category I know most about, but I want to learn about and

talk about curing meats, potting meats, making things like galantines,

pates, mousses, old-fashioned blood- and cream-based puddings... you name it.

-

December 18, 2004

I would also like to join.

Sherri

December 18, 2004

At 07:11 PM 12/18/04 -0500, you wrote:

>>How about Basic Ingredient Sausage Making or Back to the

>>Basic Sausage? Was on a Back to Basics homesteading list.That would give a

>>homestyle, native, nutritious idea of the group.

>

>Hmm, good ideas, except I'd rather find some word other than " sausage " ,

>because I really want it to be about a lot more than sausage. Sausage

>happens to be the category I know most about, but I want to learn about and

>talk about curing meats, potting meats, making things like galantines,

>pates, mousses, old-fashioned blood- and cream-based puddings... you name it.

NN-Meat-Be-Us.

I will abstain from sharing all the rest of the facetious and frighteningly

irreverent titles I've come up with over the last few hours of messing with

meat.

No, no, thank YOU!

Okay, here I go biting again. What exactly is a galantine? (I'll go

look it up when I send this, but it's always fun to ask . And potting

meats? Meaning what type of preparation? (I don't think I'll find that

one in my at-home references).

MFJ

Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

December 18, 2004

-

>I will abstain from sharing all the rest of the facetious and frighteningly

>irreverent titles I've come up with over the last few hours of messing with

>meat.

Aww, come on, now you've GOT to share!

>Okay, here I go biting again. What exactly is a galantine? (I'll go

>look it up when I send this, but it's always fun to ask . And potting

>meats? Meaning what type of preparation? (I don't think I'll find that

>one in my at-home references).

A galantine... well, here's Miriam-Webster's definition:

>>a cold dish consisting of boned meat or fish that has been stuffed,

>>poached, and covered with aspic

I didn't think it always had to be stuffed, but maybe I'm wrong. I've only

ever had galantine once or twice, and I also thought it applied only to

poultry, but I guess I was wrong about that.

A potted meat is a meat that's cooked and then put in a little clay pot or

other vessel which is then sealed with a layer of fat, typically the fat of

the animal being preserved. You fill the pot while the meat and fat are

hot, so the fat displaces all the air, then solidifies and keeps the meat

fresh and edible for quite awhile. Or so I'm told. I've eaten potted

dishes, but never ones that were left out unrefrigerated.

-

December 18, 2004

At 07:44 PM 12/18/04 -0500, you wrote:

>-

>

>>I will abstain from sharing all the rest of the facetious and frighteningly

>>irreverent titles I've come up with over the last few hours of messing with

>>meat.

>

>Aww, come on, now you've GOT to share!

You KNEW you were going to be sorry, but you HAD to ask, didn't you. You

HAD to.

Pickled, Fermented, Forced and Stuffed

We Be Potted

Meat Meat Meat (Putting It In Our Hands)

We Stuff Everything (Give Us Your Guts)

A Place for Our Stuff (apologies to Carlin)

Intestines, Anyone?

No Guts, No Glory

Pottengers Potting

Give Us Our Lard Or Give Us Death

Pottering Around

We Force Our Meat is where they begin to be inappropriate for a family list

:-0

>A galantine... well, here's Miriam-Webster's definition:

>

>>>a cold dish consisting of boned meat or fish that has been stuffed,

>>>poached, and covered with aspic

>

>I didn't think it always had to be stuffed, but maybe I'm wrong. I've only

>ever had galantine once or twice, and I also thought it applied only to

>poultry, but I guess I was wrong about that.

My handy dandy Food Lover's Companion defines galantine thusly (TOLD you

I'd go look it up - surprise surprise, I actually did):

" A classic French dish that resembles a meat-wrapped pate. It's made

from poultry, meat or fish that is boned and stuffed with a forcemeat,

which is often studded with flavor- and eye-enhancers such as pistachio

nuts, olives and truffles. The stuffed meat roll is formed into a

symmetrical loaf, wrapped in cheesecloth and gently cooked in stock.

It's then chilled, glazed with aspic made from its own jellied stock and

garnished with items (such as pistachios, olives and truffled) that have

been included in the filling. Galantines are normally served cold, cut

in slices. "

>

>A potted meat is a meat that's cooked and then put in a little clay pot or

>other vessel which is then sealed with a layer of fat, typically the fat of

>the animal being preserved. You fill the pot while the meat and fat are

>hot, so the fat displaces all the air, then solidifies and keeps the meat

>fresh and edible for quite awhile. Or so I'm told. I've eaten potted

>dishes, but never ones that were left out unrefrigerated.

See, this is fun. Same reference, no reference to potted meat, but

reference for potted shrimp reads thusly:

" Finely diced or pureed cooked shrimp mixed with seasoned butter, then

placed in small pots covered with additional melted butter and

refrigerated. Potted shrimp is usually spread on toast and served as an

hors d'oeuvre. See also Pot v. "

Pot v. elicits:

" An older method of preserving food by cooking it in plenty of fat and a

small amount of water. After cooking, the food is placed in small pots

or jars and covered with a layer of fat. As the fat cools and hardens it

forms an airtight seal, protecting the food from airborne bacteria.

Refrigeration and other modern food-packaging methods have limited the

necessity for potting foods, but some traditional dishes like French

confits are still potted and enjoyed today. "

And then we move on to confits:

" This specialty of Gascony, France is derived from an ancient method of

preserving meat (usually goose, duck or pork) whereby it is salted and

slowly cooked in its own fat. The cooked meat is then packed into a crock

or pot and covered with its cooking fat, which acts as a seal and

preservative. Confit can be refrigerated up to six months. Confit d'oie

and confit de canard are preserved goose and preserved duck, respectively. "

All of this typing being simply a labour of joy in cool food stuff,

following trails and whatnot. The interesting thing is that while I was

wrestling with a hunk of pork roast and reading up on confit, I realized

that if we'd had this discussion a couple of days ago, I'd already

basically made a confit, the only thing lacking was popping it into a " pot " .

This is also giving me a bit of inspiration for that latest duck in the

freezer. I was rather disappointed in the results of the last one that I

simply roasted (although I'll admit I may have overdone it a bit, but not

THAT much).

In this day and age, however, since we tend to be lacking in large

quantities of clay pots/vessels ... what would we use for the " pots " for

what started out as a huge hunk o' meat? Are we back to Mason jars

again? Given the definitions and intuitive reasoning (if that's not an

oxymoron), it seems like using a clear jar/exposure to light would be

undesirable for storage purposes (unless refrigerated). Eh?

Then again, maybe we can just start financing Heidi's new pottery business

by creating a demand for lidded pots.

I wonder if I could get any of the various semi-local potters to do

something like that. What criteria would be essential to the

construction? Actually, would a lid be necessary, theoretically, or in

reality? I'm thinkin' yeah, if only for stacking ability. LOL.

MFJ

Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

December 18, 2004

> You KNEW you were going to be sorry, but you HAD to ask, didn't you.

> You

> HAD to.

Now, , I'm surprised at you. The obvious choice is:

Pate Animals

Lynn S.

of the " Mr Peabody fan " S's...

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

December 18, 2004

> At 07:44 PM 12/18/04 -0500, you wrote:

>>-

>>

>>>I will abstain from sharing all the rest of the facetious and

>>>frighteningly

>>>irreverent titles I've come up with over the last few hours of messing

>>>with

>>>meat.

>>

>>Aww, come on, now you've GOT to share!

>

> You KNEW you were going to be sorry, but you HAD to ask, didn't you. You

> HAD to.

>

> Pickled, Fermented, Forced and Stuffed

> We Be Potted

> Meat Meat Meat (Putting It In Our Hands)

> We Stuff Everything (Give Us Your Guts)

> A Place for Our Stuff (apologies to Carlin)

> Intestines, Anyone?

> No Guts, No Glory

> Pottengers Potting

> Give Us Our Lard Or Give Us Death

> Pottering Around

>

> We Force Our Meat is where they begin to be inappropriate for a family

> list

> :-0

Thought you were being offal maybe <weg>

Even Some Offally Good Victuals

Offal Epicurians

Don't Forget the Offal (think that was Maypo)

or

Grind 'em, Spice 'em, Stuff 'em (apologies to Rawhide, really showing my

age)

BTW, heard a Carlin interview on NPR about his new book. Has an

interesting life and world view. Wise man besides a wise cracker. :-)

Wanita

--

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December 18, 2004

>>Hmm, good ideas, except I'd rather find some word other than " sausage " ,

>>because I really want it to be about a lot more than sausage. Sausage

>>happens to be the category I know most about, but I want to learn about and

>>talk about curing meats, potting meats, making things like galantines,

>>pates, mousses, old-fashioned blood- and cream-based puddings... you name it.

>>

Well, since you put it that way, how can I resist. Consider my arm

twisted enough, I am in.

~ Deanna

December 18, 2004

At 06:25 PM 12/18/04 -0800, you wrote:

>

>> You KNEW you were going to be sorry, but you HAD to ask, didn't you.

>> You

>> HAD to.

>

>Now, , I'm surprised at you. The obvious choice is:

>

>Pate Animals

>

>Lynn S.

>of the " Mr Peabody fan " S's...

Oh noooooooooooooooo!!!! You've just started me off again. Mr.

Peabody, Natasha (wait, wrong cartoon), Way-Backs and PAH-tay Animals ...

Stop me before I pun again.

MFJ

Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

December 18, 2004

At 09:02 PM 12/18/04 -0600, you wrote:

>Well, since you put it that way, how can I resist. Consider my arm

>twisted enough, I am in.

>

>~ Deanna

Arm-twist, sausage-twist ... *runs screaming from computer*

MFJ

Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

December 18, 2004

At 09:59 PM 12/18/04 -0500, you wrote:

>Thought you were being offal maybe <weg>

>

>Even Some Offally Good Victuals

>Offal Epicurians

>Don't Forget the Offal (think that was Maypo)

>or

>Grind 'em, Spice 'em, Stuff 'em (apologies to Rawhide, really showing my

>age)

I Can't Believe I Forgot the Offal

I Can't Believe It's Not Offal?

>

>BTW, heard a Carlin interview on NPR about his new book. Has an

>interesting life and world view. Wise man besides a wise cracker. :-)

" How you hold them pants up? "

" Sausage, m'dear "

MFJ

Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

December 18, 2004

> " How you hold them pants up? "

> " Sausage, m'dear "

>

>MFJ

>Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

>

Mustn't forget 's earlier quote, referring to using things other

than bread to make a sandwich. Oh who knows, perhaps he meant exercise

helps keep the weight off!

" While it's true that Atkins emphasized the importance of

certain fruits and vegetables and tried to play *hide-the-salami* with his

high-fat message because of all the pressure brought to bear on him, he

never actually advocated a low-fat diet. " (emphasis mine)

~ Deanna

December 18, 2004

At 09:21 PM 12/18/04 -0600, you wrote:

>> " How you hold them pants up? "

>> " Sausage, m'dear "

>>MFJ

>>Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

>>

>Mustn't forget 's earlier quote, referring to using things other

>than bread to make a sandwich. Oh who knows, perhaps he meant exercise

>helps keep the weight off!

>

> " While it's true that Atkins emphasized the importance of

>certain fruits and vegetables and tried to play *hide-the-salami* with his

>high-fat message because of all the pressure brought to bear on him, he

>never actually advocated a low-fat diet. " (emphasis mine)

>

>~ Deanna

*snort*

Deanna, if you and I EVER truly allowed ourselves to go off on a tangent

together on-list, we'd be banned in a heartbeat. You make me laugh too

hard.

MFJ

Putting it in our hands gives us so much hope. ~C. Masterjohn

December 20, 2004

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> I'm getting back into making sausage (I've been out for too long)

and I'm

> wondering whether there's any interest in a separate list

dedicated to the

> subjects of sausage and other forms of traditional preservation of

meat

, and a witch's brew of other artificial and undesirable

> ingredients.

> -

,

As a heathen witch who would love to be on your list to make NT

sausages, I'd like to say that witches usually don't use

corporate/facory farm " artificial and undesirable ingredients " in

our brews.

Connie H.

December 20, 2004

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

>

> Speaking of which, do any of you have any suggestions for the name

of the

> group? > -

NN_Sausages?

Native Sausages

Natives making sausages

Sausages for NN

Sausages for Native Nutritionists

Oldfashion sausage

Connie H.

Wisewoman Sausage maker (well maybe soon)

December 20, 2004

Vital Living & Minced Meats

Operation Stuffed Sausage

Stalking The Sausage

The Sausage Electric

Gather 'Round The Meat Grinder

Live Longer With Sausage

Sausage Alive

Casing The Sausage

Better Sausage Making

Sausage Stratics

Nutritious Minced Meats

Nice To Meat Ewe

We Caribou Sausage

, couldn't you preface the new group name with 'NN'?

Example: NN_Building_Better_Boudan

Darrell

December 20, 2004

How about just " Traditional Meat Preservation " ?

Seems like that would cover it all.

Fern

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