Re: Re: Candida interferes with carbohydrate digestion - Chris

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Masterjohn

>

>

>On 8/25/05, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

>>

>>

>> You said you have trouble digesting carbs in general. I just

>wanted to let

>> you know that candida messes up carb digestion, in case you

>weren't already

>> aware of it. Do you happen to know if you have Candida?

>

>No. How would I know?

Do you have feminine itch? <g>

Get a stool test?

The only test I know about is the yeast test from Great Plains Lab.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/yeast-overgrowth.html#conditions Or

their organic acid test which detects the byproducts of yeast.

>

>> I wonder how many folks doing the SCD are carb-intolerant due to candida?

>> And if they're aware that this might be the cause of their

>intolerance? And

>> are treating it? It's been a while since I read Gottschall's book so I

>> don't

>> recall if she addresses this.

>

>Well the premise of the SCD is that digestive problems are due to

>dysbiosis, so the SCD itself is supposed to be a treatment for that.

But it allow simple sugars, right? Does it emphasize probiotic use?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>Does it emphasize probiotic use?

I'm somewhat surprised that you so consistently criticize Elaine and the

SCD without, apparently, having the faintest clue about what it is and how

it works. Yes, 24-hour yoghurt for purposes of probiotic implantation and

general nutrition is one of the foundational components of the diet.

-

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Idol

>

>Suze-

>

>>Does it emphasize probiotic use?

>

>I'm somewhat surprised that you so consistently criticize Elaine and the

>SCD without, apparently, having the faintest clue about what it is and how

>it works.

Well, I did read her book so am not totally clueless. When I do criticize

part of her work it's a part that I've read, such as her definition of CD,

or the amylopectin issue, for example.

Yes, 24-hour yoghurt for purposes of probiotic implantation and

>general nutrition is one of the foundational components of the diet.

I'm aware of the 24-hour yogurt being a part of the diet. I was not aware

that it was *emphasized* though. Does she recommend large quantities of it?

If not, then are *other* probiotics emphasized? IF someone's carb digestion

is derranged due to candida overgrowth, then they would need to super-load

probiotics, and engage in other anti-candida measures, if they want to heal.

I was just wondering if Gottschall was aware of the fact that candida may be

the culprit with some people's derranged carb digestion, and if so, what

strategies she recommends to treat the underlying cause.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>Well, I did read her book so am not totally clueless.

If you've read her book, than how is it you didn't remember about yoghurt?

>When I do criticize

>part of her work it's a part that I've read, such as her definition of CD,

>or the amylopectin issue, for example.

I haven't had time to follow up on the amylopectin issue (I will

eventually, but I can't say when) but it's possible that the research

available at the time she wrote the book has simply been superseded by

newer info.

As to her definition of CD, I think it's a little silly to criticize her

simply for using an older and now non-standard definition when pretty much

the whole point of NN-type eating is repudiating a lot of present-day

research and eating traditional foods. Some present-day science is good,

some sucks. The mere fact of disputing some of it is not grounds for

rejection.

>I'm aware of the 24-hour yogurt being a part of the diet. I was not aware

>that it was *emphasized* though. Does she recommend large quantities of it?

Yes. As I've said, it's a foundational pillar of the diet. It's

considered essential for probiotic implantation, digestive assistance and

gut healing.

>I was just wondering if Gottschall was aware of the fact that candida may be

>the culprit with some people's derranged carb digestion, and if so, what

>strategies she recommends to treat the underlying cause.

Honestly, Suze, I'm mystified by your questions. As just said, the

entire theory behind the SCD is that dysbiosis underlies bowel

disease. OBVIOUSLY she's aware of candidiasis! I mean, seriously! Are

you kidding or what? She mentions it in the book, she discusses it on the

website and on mailing lists, she's recommended caprylic acid and the like

to help combat it, etc. etc. etc.

-

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Idol

>

>

>Suze-

>

>>Well, I did read her book so am not totally clueless.

>

>If you've read her book, than how is it you didn't remember about yoghurt?

I *did* remember about the yogurt, I just didn't remember that it was

*foundational.* It's been about 3 years since I read it so I don't remember

all the details.

>

>>When I do criticize

>>part of her work it's a part that I've read, such as her definition of CD,

>>or the amylopectin issue, for example.

>

>I haven't had time to follow up on the amylopectin issue (I will

>eventually, but I can't say when) but it's possible that the research

>available at the time she wrote the book has simply been superseded by

>newer info.

That's what I would imagine happened. However, I *think* her point re

amylopectin was foundational to the foods that she prohibited or allowed on

the diet, so it would require some readjusting of the diet I'd think if the

new info proved just the opposite. I could be remembering the details wrong

though (probably recalls this thread better than I do).

>

>As to her definition of CD, I think it's a little silly to criticize her

>simply for using an older and now non-standard definition when pretty much

>the whole point of NN-type eating is repudiating a lot of present-day

>research and eating traditional foods.

This has nothing to do with repudiating modern day research but rather has

to do with her operating under a different definition of Celiac Disease, and

claiming to be able to cure a disease which is NOT celiac disease by anyone

else's definition. IOW, when she says her diet can " cure " celiac disease,

virtually everyone reading it will be under the assumption that " Celiac

disease " means the same thing to her as it does to everyone else. In that

sense, it could potentially be dangerous for someone who doesn't understand

she's defining it differently, and thus her " cure " is not at all for Celiac

Disease as we all define it (except her) but rather for carbohydrate

intolerance.

So, rather than being silly to criticize her for defining CD differently and

claiming to be able to cure it, I think it's important that we point this

out, especially to those, such as the writer of the PPNF article, who seem

to be unaware of what they are saying when they repeat EG's words about the

SCD curing CD. There's too much room for confusion here, and it needs to be

made clear that EG is talking about a disease other than an IgA antibody

reaction to gluten.

>

>>I was just wondering if Gottschall was aware of the fact that

>candida may be

>>the culprit with some people's derranged carb digestion, and if so, what

>>strategies she recommends to treat the underlying cause.

>

>Honestly, Suze, I'm mystified by your questions. As just said, the

>entire theory behind the SCD is that dysbiosis underlies bowel

>disease. OBVIOUSLY she's aware of candidiasis!

I understand she's aware of candidiasis, that wasn't my question. My

question was if she was aware that candidiasis can derrange carbohydrate

digestion.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>I understand she's aware of candidiasis, that wasn't my question. My

>question was if she was aware that candidiasis can derrange carbohydrate

>digestion.

And I don't understand how or why you can even ask that question, but the

answer is yes, obviously.

-

[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

>Suze-

>

>

>

>>Does it emphasize probiotic use?

>>

>>

>

>Yes, 24-hour yoghurt for purposes of probiotic implantation and

>general nutrition is one of the foundational components of the diet.

>

>

>

>

>-

>

>

>

I just wanted to add that when Dr. Haas prescribed the diet for Elaine's

daughter, it included sauerkraut. Apparently, because the yogurt is

easier (for the common American) and tastes better to SADers, it has

been emphasized more heavily than fermented veggies. One of the first

things people do when starting SCD (at least on the list I'm on) is to

go out and buy a yogurt maker - probiotics are indeed very foundational

to SCD (which said, but I just wanted to reiterate). :-)

Steph

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Been a long time for me too, and I don't recall it being presented

>with quite as much emphasis as is suggesting

It could be that I'm conflating the book with conversations with her online

-- whenever talking to people on the SCD, she placed very heavy emphasis on

the probiotic importance of yoghurt, but it could be that the book, being

meant as a very simple, straightforward manual, didn't go to quite such

lengths. I'd have to check.

BTW, there's very sad news for those of us who knew her, however passingly,

or cared about her work. She died yesterday afternoon.

> From what I recall, there is at least an entire chapter devoted to how

>various sorts of dysbiosis inhibit digestion and absorption of

>carbohydrates, and that is, I would say, the essence that penetrates

>the entirety of the diet and the theory behind it.

Yes, the causes and consequences of dysbiosis are a main part of the

foundation of the whole program.

-

[Guest guest]

Steph-

>I just wanted to add that when Dr. Haas prescribed the diet for Elaine's

>daughter, it included sauerkraut. Apparently, because the yogurt is

>easier (for the common American) and tastes better to SADers, it has

>been emphasized more heavily than fermented veggies. One of the first

>things people do when starting SCD (at least on the list I'm on) is to

>go out and buy a yogurt maker - probiotics are indeed very foundational

>to SCD (which said, but I just wanted to reiterate). :-)

I've actually talked to Elaine about sauerkraut, and while you're right

that emphasizing yoghurt was partly a taste issue, she also preferred it

because the fiber in sauerkraut is often a problem for people in the early

stages of healing their guts.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>Poor misguided souls. If they only knew that kefir has more diversity of

>probiotic goodies than yoghurt, they could save themselves the cost of the

>yoghurt maker and all the trouble of making 24 hour yoghurt! Kefir is

>easier and better :-)

Not exactly. On the SCD, yoghurt has to be fermented for 24 hours in a

yoghurt maker in order to eliminate virtually all lactose -- well over

99%. When yoghurt is incubated properly for 24 hours, this happens with

100% reliability. Kefir, by contrast, cannot reliably break down virtually

all lactose without fermenting long enough to become quite

unpleasant-tasting by most people's lights -- not just very sour, but very

vinegary. And even then, without testing there's no way to be sure just

how much lactose actually remains.

-