Re: those evil grains...NOT (was: an accusation)

[Guest guest]

:

>Price writes that the Baitu tribe

>of Ruanda subsisted on goat and cow's milk (oh that evil milk!) along with

>sweet potatoes, cereals and bananas. In a study of 364 teeth in thirteen

>individuals, not ONE tooth had decay! (Would be interesting how the " milk is

>evil/grains are evil " crowd would respond to such evidence

This is also in line with what I've been saying about carbs ...

American carbs may well be evil (since they are almost all

wheat/corn based, plus baked to death, finely ground, etc)

but plenty of other cultures eat lots of carbs and do fine.

Africans commonly eat a fair bit of sorghum and millet and

do ok ... til the food aid wagon gets there and feeds them

wheat. And then of course there are those Asians not getting

fat off white rice!

BTW I can't do milk myself, but IIRC I've never said " milk

is evil " . As near as I can tell, everyone I've met who

is casein intolerant is also gluten intolerant ... I'd bet that

in a culture without gluten, there is no casein intolerance.

I know for a fact my ancestors drank goat milk forever

and did fine, but I'm intolerant to goat milk ... maybe it's

one of those " gene expression " thingies!

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

On 7/6/05, Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

> :

> >Price writes that the Baitu tribe

> >of Ruanda subsisted on goat and cow's milk (oh that evil milk!) along with

> >sweet potatoes, cereals and bananas. In a study of 364 teeth in thirteen

> >individuals, not ONE tooth had decay! (Would be interesting how the " milk

> is

> >evil/grains are evil " crowd would respond to such evidence

>

> This is also in line with what I've been saying about carbs ...

> American carbs may well be evil (since they are almost all

> wheat/corn based, plus baked to death, finely ground, etc)

> but plenty of other cultures eat lots of carbs and do fine.

> Africans commonly eat a fair bit of sorghum and millet and

> do ok ... til the food aid wagon gets there and feeds them

> wheat. And then of course there are those Asians not getting

> fat off white rice!

Apparently the same goes for American cigarettes too. The common

denominator seems to be " American, " although, as concerns any

discussion with reference to " evil, " I wouldn't point that out while

wearing a turban.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Suze,

Focus on grains meant all the groups didn't eat grains which agrees with

you, although I understated it. There's no defining of WAP's work in the

accusation to the accusation. The rest you have misunderstood and

interpreted to the opposite of my meaning. Wasn't vilifying grains or Price.

More like questioning perspective approach of accusation.

Were the African grains, gluten grains? Traditional diet grains, preparation

vs. grains and methods of Price's modern diet vs. today's grains is my

point. If I was anti grain I'd be saying for example that the Pima have to

eat paleo and not eat traditional starch resistant corn tortillas like the

Mexican Pima who don't have diabetes.

Wanita

>>NAPD really needs to be read here in order for there to be basis for this

>>focus on grains.

>

> Wanita,

>

> I'm not sure what you mean by a " focus on grains " ? What focus?

>

>

>

> There are only two groups, the Swiss eating rye

>>and Gaelic

>>island eating oats of a dozen or more groups. Iirc, both these groups had

>>the most dental caries post diet change.

>

> This is actually incorrect. Several of the African tribes Price studied

> also

> ate cereal grains. And *some* of these folks had a remarkable lack of

> tooth

> decay just like the other healthy groups he studied (albeit not all). For

> instance, on page 148 of the 6th edition, Price writes that the Baitu

> tribe

> of Ruanda subsisted on goat and cow's milk (oh that evil milk!) along with

> sweet potatoes, cereals and bananas. In a study of 364 teeth in thirteen

> individuals, not ONE tooth had decay! (Would be interesting how the " milk

> is

> evil/grains are evil " crowd would respond to such evidence.)

>

> Even more interesting is the Dinkas. Their diet consisted largely of fish

> from the Nile and cereal grains. Price writes that although they were not

> as

> tall as the cattle herding tribes, they were physically better

> proportioned

> and were stronger. They had *0.2%* tooth decay. This is comparable to many

> of the groups that did not consume cereal grains, IIRC.

>

> There are several other tribes he mentions who ate cereal grains. Some had

> more tooth decay than others, but their diets contained other variables

> that

> need to be accounted for before blaming grains on their tooth decay, such

> as

> processed foods. Price explains, in fact, that this tooth decay is a

> result

> of their lack of animal products in the diet, IIRC, rather than a factor

> of

> grains being present in the diet.

>

> Thus, we can't say that only Western Europeans can thrive on grain

> products

> or that only two groups that Price studied experienced extraordinary

> health

> on a grain-heavy diet.

>

> I'm not arguing that everyone should include grains in their diet

> whatsoever. Shoot, other than beer (which I can no longer drink other than

> hard-to-come-by gluten-free beer) I don't consume much in the way of

> grains

> myself. My argument is that Price's healthy primitives showed us that

> grains

> *per se* are not evil. This makes sense to me, because most who argue that

> grains *are* evil, totally disregard the number of variables that would

> make

> any given grain product either healthful, neutral or harmful for any given

> indivdual. IOW, they ignore many important qualifiers that beg to be

> examined.

>

>

>

>

>>

>>I do have to commend Price for doing what he did. Even though he used the

>>term primitives for his groups, I was able to see it was more

>>descriptive of

>>their lifestyle and it was not the same as the same time's

>>consideration of

>>Native American people.

>

> Price's use of the word " primitive " had nothing to do with the use of the

> term that has derogatory racist connotations. He spoke with great respect

> of

> the awesome dietary wisdom of the so-called primitive peoples, incuding

> the

> European groups he studied. His book is a testament to their superior

> wisdom

> over that of modern peoples when it comes to nutritional wisdom.

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

[Guest guest]

>Or maybe a glutenatorette?

>

Nope, try again.

Deanna, official Glutenator dubber

[Guest guest]

[suze in a bar:]

Suze: Bartender, i'd like your finest, gluten-free pasteurized beer.

Bartender: What the...

(Suze, i have a hard time distinguishing your and Heidi's posts these

days and i have to look again to see which of you is writing.

do you have asperger's by any chance?)

with love and in all good humor,

laura in nj

> > Re: an accusation

> >

> >

> >NAPD really needs to be read here in order for there to be basis

for this

> >focus on grains.

>

> Wanita,

>

> I'm not sure what you mean by a " focus on grains " ? What focus?

>

>

>

> There are only two groups, the Swiss eating rye

> >and Gaelic

> >island eating oats of a dozen or more groups. Iirc, both these

groups had

> >the most dental caries post diet change.

>

> This is actually incorrect. Several of the African tribes Price

studied also

> ate cereal grains. And *some* of these folks had a remarkable lack

of tooth

> decay just like the other healthy groups he studied (albeit not

all). For

> instance, on page 148 of the 6th edition, Price writes that the

Baitu tribe

> of Ruanda subsisted on goat and cow's milk (oh that evil milk!)

along with

> sweet potatoes, cereals and bananas. In a study of 364 teeth in

thirteen

> individuals, not ONE tooth had decay! (Would be interesting how

the " milk is

> evil/grains are evil " crowd would respond to such evidence.)

>

> Even more interesting is the Dinkas. Their diet consisted largely

of fish

> from the Nile and cereal grains. Price writes that although they

were not as

> tall as the cattle herding tribes, they were physically better

proportioned

> and were stronger. They had *0.2%* tooth decay. This is comparable

to many

> of the groups that did not consume cereal grains, IIRC.

>

> There are several other tribes he mentions who ate cereal grains.

Some had

> more tooth decay than others, but their diets contained other

variables that

> need to be accounted for before blaming grains on their tooth

decay, such as

> processed foods. Price explains, in fact, that this tooth decay is

a result

> of their lack of animal products in the diet, IIRC, rather than a

factor of

> grains being present in the diet.

>

> Thus, we can't say that only Western Europeans can thrive on grain

products

> or that only two groups that Price studied experienced

extraordinary health

> on a grain-heavy diet.

>

> I'm not arguing that everyone should include grains in their diet

> whatsoever. Shoot, other than beer (which I can no longer drink

other than

> hard-to-come-by gluten-free beer) I don't consume much in the way

of grains

> myself. My argument is that Price's healthy primitives showed us

that grains

> *per se* are not evil. This makes sense to me, because most who

argue that

> grains *are* evil, totally disregard the number of variables that

would make

> any given grain product either healthful, neutral or harmful for

any given

> indivdual. IOW, they ignore many important qualifiers that beg to be

> examined.

>

>

>

>

> >

> >I do have to commend Price for doing what he did. Even though he

used the

> >term primitives for his groups, I was able to see it was more

> >descriptive of

> >their lifestyle and it was not the same as the same time's

> >consideration of

> >Native American people.

>

> Price's use of the word " primitive " had nothing to do with the use

of the

> term that has derogatory racist connotations. He spoke with great

respect of

> the awesome dietary wisdom of the so-called primitive peoples,

incuding the

> European groups he studied. His book is a testament to their

superior wisdom

> over that of modern peoples when it comes to nutritional wisdom.

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -

-

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> Re: those evil grains...NOT (was: an accusation)

>

>

>[suze in a bar:]

>

>Suze: Bartender, i'd like your finest, gluten-free pasteurized beer.

>

>Bartender: What the...

>

Oh , you are so, SO far off the mark.

It goes like this:

Suze: Bartender, i'd like your finest, gluten-free UNpasteurized,

unfiltered, high brix, sexy, organic beer.

;-)

>(Suze, i have a hard time distinguishing your and Heidi's posts these

>days and i have to look again to see which of you is writing.

Really?? Cool, I think that means I passed the test and can now be made an

official deputy glutenator. Or maybe a glutenatorette?

>

>do you have asperger's by any chance?)

Me? An Aspie? Nyet. Not that I'm aware of anyway.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> >(Suze, i have a hard time distinguishing your and Heidi's posts

these

> >days and i have to look again to see which of you is writing.

>

> Really?? Cool, I think that means I passed the test and can now be

made an

> official deputy glutenator. Or maybe a glutenatorette?

> Suze Fisher

It's happening in spades, . I'm becoming another one. Sorry. A

couple months ago, an innocent " victim " , I'd barely heard of gluten,

certainly had no symptoms, but got checked (blood gene test &

biopsy) and am now, as a result of Heidi's haranguing, an official

full-time all-the-time celiac.

It's pretty lousy actually. (Really awful!!!) But at least I know

what was behind all my health issues and can now attempt to repair

them. At the risk of sounding like an automaton, I really think

everyone who has mysterious on-going health issues owes it to

themselves to simply get checked. Now I'll be quiet about it. (I

think..)

Deanna, you must come up with some other names for us gluten

darlings. Please make it something adorable and cuddly :-) as we so

want to be loved. And I'm sorry to everyone, all this grain stuff

must be tedious and boring; It sure used to be for me! I still can't

believe how it's suddenly become central (and already boring!) to my

life. ack. I look at everything now and ask " did gluten cause this?

did gluten cause that? " It's like you get bit by the gluten bug --

almost a kind of sickness in itself but it's oh so real help!

~Robin

[Guest guest]

>>do you have asperger's by any chance?)

>

>Me? An Aspie? Nyet. Not that I'm aware of anyway.

>

>

>Suze Fisher

Actually, anyone in the general " programming " field

is Aspergerish by default ... if they aren't that way

when they start, they end up that way from staring

at a tube all day. Though likely Web Designers are

in a different category ... they are half artists/half programmer! :--)

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> I look at everything now and ask " did gluten cause this?

>did gluten cause that? " It's like you get bit by the gluten bug --

>almost a kind of sickness in itself but it's oh so real help!

>

>~Robin

I was on vacation with a relative and had to do all

the cooking, because there was no way she'd figure

out how we cooked (and she doesn't cook anyway: she

eats out!). She enjoyed the food, but was talking about

how " unhealthy " I am. I said " what are you talking about?

I'm doing better than I have in YEARS! " . She said " well yeah,

but you have to work so HARD to get that way! " .

I responded that this was only because I happened

to be living in this country and time ... if I was in

Thailand, for instance, my way of eating would

be the norm. And it's no work at all in my own house:

only when dealing with someone else's kitchen.

Anyway, it's that " Stranger in a Strange Land " thing ...

or maybe " the Time Traveller " (did anyone read

that? It's an amazing book ... totally outstanding ...

not really scifi, it's more of a love story but so

well crafted that I'm in awe). I just figure I'm un-hitched

from the time stream and seeing things from slightly

in the future. So it's like living, say, in the Middle Ages

and KNOWING that sewage causes cholera, but everyone

thinks you are weird for wanting plumbing in your

house.

So hang in there Robin ... yeah, it's real. And yeah, it

will be mainstream very soon ...

Heidi Jean