Pepsin-free Betaine HCl: A First Report

[Guest guest]

As some of you may remember from reading a recent thread, I've been meaning

to try pepsin-free betaine HCl for awhile now, because for some reason

supplemental pepsin seems to give me heartburn, and also because the

recently-posted Townsend Letter article recommends taking small amounts of

plain betaine HCl between meals to maintain inter-meal stomach

acidity. I've also wanted to get away from Pure Encapsulations (provider

of relatively low-pepsin HCl supplement I've been using) since discovering

that the " vegetable fiber " filler they use is actually wood.

Today was day 1 of the trial, and so far, I'm not sure what to make of the

results.

As I recall, the Townsend Letter article recommended taking up to about 3g

of betaine HCl. I normally take 6 Pure Encapsulations capsules, providing

a total of 3.12g, per meal, though less with smaller or low-protein meals.

This morning I decided to try 3.4g of the pepsin-free supplement I got from

Self Health with a large serving of liver (close to 0.8#) and about a pint

of cream. I made no changes in routine or food except to the source and,

to a slight degree, the dosage, of HCl. But very quickly I felt gut

distress, stomach pain, imminent gassiness and/or diarrhea, a very strong

sensation of heat, and a brief upsurge of asthma (though I'd had a stronger

upsurge earlier) and a small bout of cold sweats. And then just as

quickly, the distress passed, I finished my meal, felt fine, and nothing

untoward has happened.

Later, for lunch I ate a steak with a lot of sauce made from butter, stock,

wine and habaneros -- a common meal -- and this time I ate a few bites

before taking HCl and reduced the dose to 2.55g. This time, nothing at

all. No unusual sensations whatsoever.

I've wondered whether Pure Encapsulations doesn't provide the rated amount

of betaine HCl, whether the wood fiber somehow inhibits its action, whether

the Self Health version isn't actually filler-free and whatever else is in

there provoked a reaction, and so on.

For my next meal I'll try upping the dose a bit but taking it after a few

bites of food, as I did at lunch. Perhaps my stomach wasn't prepared to

handle pure betaine HCl without either food or wood fiber filler? I have

no idea. ly I'm at a loss.

I haven't yet tried taking any between meals, but I will soon.

So there you go, for those of you who are interested. Strange initial results.

-

[Guest guest]

A quick update from someone else who is trying the " Self Health " Pepsin-free

Betaine: I don't use it with meals as I'm happy enough with the Thorne

B.P.P. product that contains pepsin -- I very much need pepsin to get the

digestive process working as I have a different problem than -- I

basically have very little or no stomach acid due to a strong H. Pylori

infection that put a hole in my stomach a year ago. The Townsend letter

notes is the same article that motivated me to try the taking pepsin-free

acid between meals in order to keep stomach acid levels at 1.8 to 2.2 --

They say that this will keep opportunistic bacteria at bay and it makes a

lot of sense to me....

So far, I've had no problems taking the acid between meals -- I even take it

when I get up at night. It's too soon to tell if it's having any positive

effect and I'm not sure how I would know anyway but I let you know and will

look forward to hearing how and anyone does...

~Robin

[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Robin Reese [mailto:robin.reese@...]

>

> A quick update from someone else who is trying the " Self

> Health " Pepsin-free

> Betaine: I don't use it with meals as I'm happy enough with

> the Thorne B.P.P. product that contains pepsin -- I very much

> need pepsin to get the digestive process working as I have a

> different problem than -- I basically have very little

> or no stomach acid due to a strong H. Pylori infection that

> put a hole in my stomach a year ago.

Hm. About a week ago, I had a sudden onset of digestive problems (mild

discomfort and nearly constant burping after meals). I assume that it's

related to some kind of infection, probably H. pylori, though there hasn't

really been much pain. I thought I'd just see if I could kill them off with

kefir and kimchi, but I wasn't aware that they could permanently destroy the

stomach's ability to produce acid. Is this something I should take more

seriously?

[Guest guest]

-

>Hm. About a week ago, I had a sudden onset of digestive problems (mild

>discomfort and nearly constant burping after meals). I assume that it's

>related to some kind of infection, probably H. pylori, though there hasn't

>really been much pain. I thought I'd just see if I could kill them off with

>kefir and kimchi, but I wasn't aware that they could permanently destroy the

>stomach's ability to produce acid. Is this something I should take more

>seriously?

I'd take it seriously, but if in fact you do have an H. pylori infection,

probiotics (including probiotic foods) possibly plus HCl supplementation

would likely be enough to kill it and probably restore your native acid

production capacity.

-

[Guest guest]

The classic symptoms of an H. pylori infection are the classic ulcer

symptoms. Here's a decent site that explains it all about h. pylori.

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/hpylori/#4

However, I don't think you necessarily have to wait until you have ulcer

symptoms to consider a bacterial infection.

I mentioned h. pylori in the context of a daughter's digestion problems

because I think h. pylori can cause a whole host of other problems (and have

symptoms similar to the weird and disparate symptoms of Candida) before it

ever gets to the ulcer stage. For example, I'm guessing I've had a strain of

bacteria living in my stomach since I was an art student in Tokyo in the

70's. Although it caused no symptoms of ulcer until last year when it nearly

killed me, I've had all sorts of IBS type problems as well as auto-immune

problems -- including CFID's 16 years ago -- since then. When I finally

eradicated the bad bacteria (and reestablished good bacterial/fungal

balance,) I cleared up seemingly unrelated problems that I'd been living

with for many years.

I agree that Pepto Bismol is a kind of antibiotic but can it, alone, kill an

h. pylori infection? In my case I'd certainly have to say no. For

maintenance, probably bismuth is good except that if it's a choice between

keeping stomach acid levels at 1.8 -2.2 pH. to naturally keep out

bacteria/fungus versus creating a rather alkaline coating to protect stomach

lining and possibly kill off some bacteria, I personally would take the acid

route. My whole theme these days is creating an acid environment in my h.

pylori ravaged stomach which is the opposite of what most doctors

recommend..

I didn't mean to get this thread so off on the track of h. pylori. I just

think it's a good idea if a person has an unhappy change in digestion to at

least entertain the idea that some sort of bacterial/fungal/parasite

infection MIGHT be to blame. And since we started talking about h. pylori I

wanted to make clear that IF you can find a doctor to give you a breath test

-- not easy even with an ulcer(!) -- and you DO have a case of this

bacteria, I think you must take it seriously, get rid of it and avoid

problems down the road (such as losing the ability to make stomach acid.)

When you finally get rid of it then you get to fight the doctors who want

you to continue on acid blockers " for the rest of your life " . What worked

for me after I got rid of the bacteria and repaired my stomach lining with

their acid blockers and bismuth was going 180 degrees -- increasing HCl.

I've had stupendous results since switching gears. I mean really kick ass

great improvements.

H. pylori can be VERY hard to get rid of so knowing what I know now I would

bite the bullet and err on the side of an all out attack -- up to twenty

pills a day -- and rebuild later. You may even need to repeat the treatment

as I did. It took me several.

Finally FYI:

As I hope my words pointed out, I think there are many more subtle symptoms

of an h. pylori infection. But here's a list of the " classic " symptoms of h.

pylori that are also the classic symptoms of ulcer:

" * a dull, gnawing ache

* comes and goes for several days or weeks

* occurs 2 to 3 hours after a meal

* occurs in the middle of the night (when the stomach is empty)

* is relieved by eating

* is relieved by antacid medications

Other symptoms include

* weight loss

* poor appetite

* bloating

* burping

* nausea

* vomiting

Some people experience only very mild symptoms, or none at all.

Emergency Symptoms

If you have any of these symptoms, call your doctor right away:

* sharp, sudden, persistent stomach pain

* bloody or black stools

* bloody vomit or vomit that looks like coffee grounds

They could be signs of a serious problem, such as

* perforation--when the ulcer burrows through the stomach or duodenal

wall

* bleeding--when acid or the ulcer breaks a blood vessel

* obstruction--when the ulcer blocks the path of food trying to leave

the stomach "

from: http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/hpylori/#4

~Robin