Re: Nada's outreach program

[Guest guest]

wow ....

that was some humdinger of an episode! Hats off to you for

handling it so well!

kathleen

-- In ModOasis@y..., " wow2girl2002 " <cglover@c...> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,

> Just thought I'd write about my Nada's latest. Nada and Fada

came to

> visit in April. Nada was predictably awful. Had the moment of

> clarity speech, the stab in the back conversations with my

husband

> and friends, and tried to get me to dis about my husband and

> brother's family in a negative way (didn't succeed there). Told

my

> fada that I couldn't have her stay in my home anymore. Her

criticism

> of me, mine etc was unacceptable. He completely understood,

but what

> can he do??? Dishrag is an understatement re: dad. They

went to

> Canada and Dad got major ill ... subsequently they've moved to

a new

> town and are trying to settle in.

> Sequence of events:

> Nada puts me down with moment of clarity speech: the I was

a lousy

> mother but really you deserved it speech... annual bs. Then

wonders

> aloud to my husband why " there is so much tension in the air. "

Also

> airs her opinion re: my faith (she has indicated to family

members

> that I belonged to a cult ... LOL, I go to a METHODIST

CHURCH).

> Extremely combative re: my faith. Also airs opinion, yet for the

> millionth zillionth time, that I am loud because I want to draw

> attention to myself and that I'm insecure. Husband, to his

credit,

> says I am loud bc I am deaf LOL. That I am most secure

person he

> knows (thanks SO). Nada and fada leave after giving nice little

> gifts to the family (this of course means all is well with us

again

> even though no acknowledgement or responsibility taken for

actions).

> Fada becomes critically ill. Fada evac'd to southern community

ER.

> Nada needs me to support her, call all people in family and

update,

> etc. Emotionally leans on me (the " insecure one " ). Nada

upset with

> brother (who absolutely HATES HER) bc he doesn't have

appropriate

> reaction. How to react? If he does something he's like me: it's

> the wrong thing. If nothing: he doesn't care. It's a no win

> situation. End result, I am wonderful daughter once again bc I

am so

> supportive (mainly so dad will rally and fight to live). Brother

> becomes hero bc follows through with major move of stuff to

southern

> community (which makes him wonderful son, but he said he

didn't do it

> for her, he did it for dad).

> I back off a bit... for much needed emotional break. My work is

> done. I've done my duty. (ahem... my " christian duty " as i see

it).

> Holiday time!

> Meanwhile, I follow through with a promise to come see them

this

> summer. Mom PANICS. Of course, that would mean putting

up with her

> loud, rude inconsiderate daughter. It would (in a quote to my

> brother) " be a burden. " I had offered to help unpack stuff etc

but

> that is not remembered at all. But there is also the concern

that my

> daughter will have a yucky memory instead of a good one

> (ridiculous...life isn't perfect and she knows that having visited

> another relative with alzheimers). So I tell brother this, and he

> relates to Nada and Fada that if he had almost died 3x he'd

want to

> have his family around him. Just a comment: Nada breaks

into

> hysterics, rushes off phone etc. TG my brother tells me this...

next

> day Nada calls me in a very bad mood. Obvious that she

wants to pick

> a fight (she calls during a nap time for dad so she can always

> have " plausible deniability). I deflect many arrows, but

basically

> she is angry with me for my brother's " lecture! " I refuse

> responsibility: say I just gave info to brother and what he did

> w/that info was HIS BUSINESS. If you have a problem with him,

take it

> up with him, not me. End of discussion bc she is completely

defeated

> (hallelujah... I am soo strong!).

> I avoid phone calls with her. I talk with Dad (and she is

pointedly

> not on the phone, only in the background since her witchy

phone call)

> and I am throroughly enjoying not having to deal with her

phone

> dominance. Then she gets a package in the mail (combo

mom's/dad's

> day stuff) and all is well again. Oh she can't wait to chat! (ugh

> ugh). Then I still avoid conversing as much as possible. Just

call

> Dad when I know she's not at home. Well, yesterday I got a

card

> from her. A SMILE.... JESUS LOVES YOU card (irony of

ironies). A

> long note about stuff I've already discussed with dad. A quick

aside

> at the end re: my fibromyalgia and Oh, " I love you. "

> OK, I'm not really upset about the card. I just find all of it so

> laughable. Like the card was written for Dad's benefit: I can

hear

> the conversation now. " Oh, honey I don't understand why

> won't talk to me... I wish we could have an adult relationship ...

oh

> I wrote a nice card and I hope when she gets it that all will be

well

> again. " Hahaha. Well here's how I see that card and all her

other

> little gifties: they are tiny bandaids and totally disregard any

> real culpability on her part. She NEVER apologizes. She

> only " wonders " why we don't get along to everyone BUT ME.

Even if I

> did tell her why I didn't trust her, she'd turn it around onto me.

> She NEVER admits to any wrong doing (remember I'm only on

the

> pedastal when I completely cater to her and look after her).

She

> thinks a card (pointedly with a Christian angle) will make up for

her

> crappy attitude toward me. I think it is so hilarious that this is

> her way of reaching out to me. Same with the gifties. I never

take

> those as nice gifts: they are tokens to avoid real healing. And

of

> course they are given so that ALL WILL BE WELL again.

> I don't buy it at all.

>

> Just sharing... btw, I threw the card away. Most of it was about

her

> anyway.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/9/02 9:41:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

cglover@... writes:

> ALL WILL BE WELL

Chiristine,

Isn't that a fun game to play? " Oh, well I sent you a box of tea towels and

some brillo pads, how can you still be so angry with me? Have you asked your

therapist about anger management? "

This is a favorite game of Megatron's.

Hugs,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

,

It seems like you have a very clear perspective of what's going on

in this BPD dance. I wish that I had half the head you do when

confronted with my nada's antics. But I've just recently discovered

there is a way to deal with these people and so I've got to finish

reading SWOE first and then write the big letter. Anyway, I think

your sense of humor about the situation speaks volumes as to your own

mental health. I see a lot of similarities between your nada and my

nada and my grandnada (the big time witchy nada- my nada's a waif with

witchy components). Thank you for sharing your story and I think

Methodists are great people. I've yet to meet one I didn't like, even

though I'm most certain they exist just like any other subset of

organized people.

Take care,

Kere

> Hi Everyone,

> Just thought I'd write about my Nada's latest. Nada and Fada came

to

> visit in April. Nada was predictably awful. Had the moment of

> clarity speech, the stab in the back conversations with my husband

> and friends, and tried to get me to dis about my husband and

> brother's family in a negative way (didn't succeed there). Told my

> fada that I couldn't have her stay in my home anymore. Her

criticism

> of me, mine etc was unacceptable. He completely understood, but

what

> can he do??? Dishrag is an understatement re: dad. They went to

> Canada and Dad got major ill ... subsequently they've moved to a new

> town and are trying to settle in.

> Sequence of events:

> Nada puts me down with moment of clarity speech: the I was a lousy

> mother but really you deserved it speech... annual bs. Then wonders

> aloud to my husband why " there is so much tension in the air. " Also

> airs her opinion re: my faith (she has indicated to family members

> that I belonged to a cult ... LOL, I go to a METHODIST CHURCH).

> Extremely combative re: my faith. Also airs opinion, yet for the

> millionth zillionth time, that I am loud because I want to draw

> attention to myself and that I'm insecure. Husband, to his credit,

> says I am loud bc I am deaf LOL. That I am most secure person he

> knows (thanks SO). Nada and fada leave after giving nice little

> gifts to the family (this of course means all is well with us again

> even though no acknowledgement or responsibility taken for actions).

> Fada becomes critically ill. Fada evac'd to southern community ER.

> Nada needs me to support her, call all people in family and update,

> etc. Emotionally leans on me (the " insecure one " ). Nada upset with

> brother (who absolutely HATES HER) bc he doesn't have appropriate

> reaction. How to react? If he does something he's like me: it's

> the wrong thing. If nothing: he doesn't care. It's a no win

> situation. End result, I am wonderful daughter once again bc I am

so

> supportive (mainly so dad will rally and fight to live). Brother

> becomes hero bc follows through with major move of stuff to southern

> community (which makes him wonderful son, but he said he didn't do

it

> for her, he did it for dad).

> I back off a bit... for much needed emotional break. My work is

> done. I've done my duty. (ahem... my " christian duty " as i see it).

> Holiday time!

> Meanwhile, I follow through with a promise to come see them this

> summer. Mom PANICS. Of course, that would mean putting up with her

> loud, rude inconsiderate daughter. It would (in a quote to my

> brother) " be a burden. " I had offered to help unpack stuff etc but

> that is not remembered at all. But there is also the concern that

my

> daughter will have a yucky memory instead of a good one

> (ridiculous...life isn't perfect and she knows that having visited

> another relative with alzheimers). So I tell brother this, and he

> relates to Nada and Fada that if he had almost died 3x he'd want to

> have his family around him. Just a comment: Nada breaks into

> hysterics, rushes off phone etc. TG my brother tells me this...

next

> day Nada calls me in a very bad mood. Obvious that she wants to

pick

> a fight (she calls during a nap time for dad so she can always

> have " plausible deniability). I deflect many arrows, but basically

> she is angry with me for my brother's " lecture! " I refuse

> responsibility: say I just gave info to brother and what he did

> w/that info was HIS BUSINESS. If you have a problem with him, take

it

> up with him, not me. End of discussion bc she is completely

defeated

> (hallelujah... I am soo strong!).

> I avoid phone calls with her. I talk with Dad (and she is pointedly

> not on the phone, only in the background since her witchy phone

call)

> and I am throroughly enjoying not having to deal with her phone

> dominance. Then she gets a package in the mail (combo mom's/dad's

> day stuff) and all is well again. Oh she can't wait to chat! (ugh

> ugh). Then I still avoid conversing as much as possible. Just call

> Dad when I know she's not at home. Well, yesterday I got a card

> from her. A SMILE.... JESUS LOVES YOU card (irony of ironies). A

> long note about stuff I've already discussed with dad. A quick

aside

> at the end re: my fibromyalgia and Oh, " I love you. "

> OK, I'm not really upset about the card. I just find all of it so

> laughable. Like the card was written for Dad's benefit: I can hear

> the conversation now. " Oh, honey I don't understand why

> won't talk to me... I wish we could have an adult relationship ...

oh

> I wrote a nice card and I hope when she gets it that all will be

well

> again. " Hahaha. Well here's how I see that card and all her other

> little gifties: they are tiny bandaids and totally disregard any

> real culpability on her part. She NEVER apologizes. She

> only " wonders " why we don't get along to everyone BUT ME. Even if I

> did tell her why I didn't trust her, she'd turn it around onto me.

> She NEVER admits to any wrong doing (remember I'm only on the

> pedastal when I completely cater to her and look after her). She

> thinks a card (pointedly with a Christian angle) will make up for

her

> crappy attitude toward me. I think it is so hilarious that this is

> her way of reaching out to me. Same with the gifties. I never take

> those as nice gifts: they are tokens to avoid real healing. And of

> course they are given so that ALL WILL BE WELL again.

> I don't buy it at all.

>

> Just sharing... btw, I threw the card away. Most of it was about

her

> anyway.

>

[Guest guest]

> > Hi Everyone,

> > Just thought I'd write about my Nada's latest. Nada and Fada

came

> to

> > visit in April. Nada was predictably awful. Had the moment of

> > clarity speech, the stab in the back conversations with my

husband

> > and friends, and tried to get me to dis about my husband and

> > brother's family in a negative way (didn't succeed there). Told

my

> > fada that I couldn't have her stay in my home anymore. Her

> criticism

> > of me, mine etc was unacceptable. He completely understood, but

> what

> > can he do??? Dishrag is an understatement re: dad. They went to

> > Canada and Dad got major ill ... subsequently they've moved to a

new

> > town and are trying to settle in.

> > Sequence of events:

> > Nada puts me down with moment of clarity speech: the I was a

lousy

> > mother but really you deserved it speech... annual bs. Then

wonders

> > aloud to my husband why " there is so much tension in the air. "

Also

> > airs her opinion re: my faith (she has indicated to family

members

> > that I belonged to a cult ... LOL, I go to a METHODIST CHURCH).

> > Extremely combative re: my faith. Also airs opinion, yet for the

> > millionth zillionth time, that I am loud because I want to draw

> > attention to myself and that I'm insecure. Husband, to his

credit,

> > says I am loud bc I am deaf LOL. That I am most secure person he

> > knows (thanks SO). Nada and fada leave after giving nice little

> > gifts to the family (this of course means all is well with us

again

> > even though no acknowledgement or responsibility taken for

actions).

> > Fada becomes critically ill. Fada evac'd to southern community

ER.

>

> > Nada needs me to support her, call all people in family and

update,

> > etc. Emotionally leans on me (the " insecure one " ). Nada upset

with

> > brother (who absolutely HATES HER) bc he doesn't have appropriate

> > reaction. How to react? If he does something he's like me:

it's

> > the wrong thing. If nothing: he doesn't care. It's a no win

> > situation. End result, I am wonderful daughter once again bc I

am

> so

> > supportive (mainly so dad will rally and fight to live). Brother

> > becomes hero bc follows through with major move of stuff to

southern

> > community (which makes him wonderful son, but he said he didn't

do

> it

> > for her, he did it for dad).

> > I back off a bit... for much needed emotional break. My work is

> > done. I've done my duty. (ahem... my " christian duty " as i see

it).

>

> > Holiday time!

> > Meanwhile, I follow through with a promise to come see them this

> > summer. Mom PANICS. Of course, that would mean putting up with

her

> > loud, rude inconsiderate daughter. It would (in a quote to my

> > brother) " be a burden. " I had offered to help unpack stuff etc

but

> > that is not remembered at all. But there is also the concern

that

> my

> > daughter will have a yucky memory instead of a good one

> > (ridiculous...life isn't perfect and she knows that having

visited

> > another relative with alzheimers). So I tell brother this, and

he

> > relates to Nada and Fada that if he had almost died 3x he'd want

to

> > have his family around him. Just a comment: Nada breaks into

> > hysterics, rushes off phone etc. TG my brother tells me this...

> next

> > day Nada calls me in a very bad mood. Obvious that she wants to

> pick

> > a fight (she calls during a nap time for dad so she can always

> > have " plausible deniability). I deflect many arrows, but

basically

> > she is angry with me for my brother's " lecture! " I refuse

> > responsibility: say I just gave info to brother and what he did

> > w/that info was HIS BUSINESS. If you have a problem with him,

take

> it

> > up with him, not me. End of discussion bc she is completely

> defeated

> > (hallelujah... I am soo strong!).

> > I avoid phone calls with her. I talk with Dad (and she is

pointedly

> > not on the phone, only in the background since her witchy phone

> call)

> > and I am throroughly enjoying not having to deal with her phone

> > dominance. Then she gets a package in the mail (combo

mom's/dad's

> > day stuff) and all is well again. Oh she can't wait to chat!

(ugh

> > ugh). Then I still avoid conversing as much as possible. Just

call

> > Dad when I know she's not at home. Well, yesterday I got a card

> > from her. A SMILE.... JESUS LOVES YOU card (irony of ironies).

A

> > long note about stuff I've already discussed with dad. A quick

> aside

> > at the end re: my fibromyalgia and Oh, " I love you. "

> > OK, I'm not really upset about the card. I just find all of it

so

> > laughable. Like the card was written for Dad's benefit: I can

hear

> > the conversation now. " Oh, honey I don't understand why

> > won't talk to me... I wish we could have an adult

relationship ...

> oh

> > I wrote a nice card and I hope when she gets it that all will be

> well

> > again. " Hahaha. Well here's how I see that card and all her

other

> > little gifties: they are tiny bandaids and totally disregard any

> > real culpability on her part. She NEVER apologizes. She

> > only " wonders " why we don't get along to everyone BUT ME. Even

if I

> > did tell her why I didn't trust her, she'd turn it around onto

me.

> > She NEVER admits to any wrong doing (remember I'm only on the

> > pedastal when I completely cater to her and look after her). She

> > thinks a card (pointedly with a Christian angle) will make up for

> her

> > crappy attitude toward me. I think it is so hilarious that this

is

> > her way of reaching out to me. Same with the gifties. I never

take

> > those as nice gifts: they are tokens to avoid real healing. And

of

> > course they are given so that ALL WILL BE WELL again.

> > I don't buy it at all.

> >

> > Just sharing... btw, I threw the card away. Most of it was about

> her

> > anyway.

> >

Dear Lonewolf,

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I think we probably have a

lot in common re: the nada situation. Hang in there... you will get

it together... for YOURSELF!!

I can honestly say that if it weren't for my sense of humor, I'd be a

goner. I can laugh because I've had years to learn how to deal with

her and I've got a wonderful support group of lifelong friends who

KNOW the witch and can laugh with me about her many antics. I don't

know how old you are, but I'm 39 so a lot of where my head is at is

bc I have had a lot of time to work on the ickies. You'll get

there. I have another friend who just realized her mom is BP.. knew

she was weird, but why??? This has been a difficult journey for her

(she's 40). I try to help her by listening and giving her a good

chuckle about it. These gals won't change... so only we can.

Laughing at the idiocy works for me.

I haven't formally sent a letter in the past year... wanted to do so

but I figured it wouldn't be good to do it during the " crisis. " I

still think about calling with a letter in my hand and saying it all

to her with the final sentence being " a copy of this letter will be

sent to any interested individuals you wish to misinform with your

victim attitude. " I finally decided that situational boundary

setting will work/and does work best for me, but that doesn't mean I

haven't tried to do the letter thing. My last attempt was a

completely unsuccessful event during my mid-20s. I bared my soul and

got a LIMERICK in response as well as a dressing down for sending it

near christmas/bday time. When you do send the " letter " be prepared

to be unsatisfied with the response. But know a cyber shoulder is

here for you to vent to/cry on!!

A lot of my reasoning comes from trial and error, learning to NEVER

TRUST her, giving up on the idea of a REAL RELATIONSHIP (very

painful) and letting it be very surface. I do what I need to do to

maintain a connection with Dad (just another victim) and keep her at

bay. I don't even think I love her/hate her or anything. I am

indifferent now.

Oh, after the cult thing (about 5 years ago), I went to the mall with

my friends and kept running into all my church buddies, including the

pastor and his wife. I had a riot with the concept of " that

methodist cult " all evening. They were everywhere! I laughed a lot.

BTW, tried the easiest literati and was HORRIBLE. My hormones have

eaten up all my good brain cells. All that's left is an ability to

clean closets ;-).

Chuckles,

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 7/9/02 9:41:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> cglover@c... writes:

>

>

> > ALL WILL BE WELL

>

> Chiristine,

>

> Isn't that a fun game to play? " Oh, well I sent you a box of tea

towels and

> some brillo pads, how can you still be so angry with me? Have you

asked your

> therapist about anger management? "

>

> This is a favorite game of Megatron's.

>

> Hugs,

>

> Debbie

thanks for the huge and wonderful belly laugh! I am still

chuckling...

LOLOLOLOL

And so glad I'm not alone!!

christine

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > > Hi Everyone,

> > > Just thought I'd write about my Nada's latest. Nada and Fada

> came

> > to

> > > visit in April. Nada was predictably awful. Had the moment of

> > > clarity speech, the stab in the back conversations with my

> husband

> > > and friends, and tried to get me to dis about my husband and

> > > brother's family in a negative way (didn't succeed there). Told

> my

> > > fada that I couldn't have her stay in my home anymore. Her

> > criticism

> > > of me, mine etc was unacceptable. He completely understood, but

> > what

> > > can he do??? Dishrag is an understatement re: dad. They went to

> > > Canada and Dad got major ill ... subsequently they've moved to a

> new

> > > town and are trying to settle in.

> > > Sequence of events:

> > > Nada puts me down with moment of clarity speech: the I was a

> lousy

> > > mother but really you deserved it speech... annual bs. Then

> wonders

> > > aloud to my husband why " there is so much tension in the air. "

> Also

> > > airs her opinion re: my faith (she has indicated to family

> members

> > > that I belonged to a cult ... LOL, I go to a METHODIST CHURCH).

> > > Extremely combative re: my faith. Also airs opinion, yet for

the

> > > millionth zillionth time, that I am loud because I want to draw

> > > attention to myself and that I'm insecure. Husband, to his

> credit,

> > > says I am loud bc I am deaf LOL. That I am most secure person

he

> > > knows (thanks SO). Nada and fada leave after giving nice little

> > > gifts to the family (this of course means all is well with us

> again

> > > even though no acknowledgement or responsibility taken for

> actions).

> > > Fada becomes critically ill. Fada evac'd to southern community

> ER.

> >

> > > Nada needs me to support her, call all people in family and

> update,

> > > etc. Emotionally leans on me (the " insecure one " ). Nada upset

> with

> > > brother (who absolutely HATES HER) bc he doesn't have

appropriate

> > > reaction. How to react? If he does something he's like me:

> it's

> > > the wrong thing. If nothing: he doesn't care. It's a no win

> > > situation. End result, I am wonderful daughter once again bc I

> am

> > so

> > > supportive (mainly so dad will rally and fight to live).

Brother

> > > becomes hero bc follows through with major move of stuff to

> southern

> > > community (which makes him wonderful son, but he said he didn't

> do

> > it

> > > for her, he did it for dad).

> > > I back off a bit... for much needed emotional break. My work is

> > > done. I've done my duty. (ahem... my " christian duty " as i see

> it).

> >

> > > Holiday time!

> > > Meanwhile, I follow through with a promise to come see them this

> > > summer. Mom PANICS. Of course, that would mean putting up with

> her

> > > loud, rude inconsiderate daughter. It would (in a quote to my

> > > brother) " be a burden. " I had offered to help unpack stuff etc

> but

> > > that is not remembered at all. But there is also the concern

> that

> > my

> > > daughter will have a yucky memory instead of a good one

> > > (ridiculous...life isn't perfect and she knows that having

> visited

> > > another relative with alzheimers). So I tell brother this, and

> he

> > > relates to Nada and Fada that if he had almost died 3x he'd want

> to

> > > have his family around him. Just a comment: Nada breaks into

> > > hysterics, rushes off phone etc. TG my brother tells me this...

> > next

> > > day Nada calls me in a very bad mood. Obvious that she wants to

> > pick

> > > a fight (she calls during a nap time for dad so she can always

> > > have " plausible deniability). I deflect many arrows, but

> basically

> > > she is angry with me for my brother's " lecture! " I refuse

> > > responsibility: say I just gave info to brother and what he did

> > > w/that info was HIS BUSINESS. If you have a problem with him,

> take

> > it

> > > up with him, not me. End of discussion bc she is completely

> > defeated

> > > (hallelujah... I am soo strong!).

> > > I avoid phone calls with her. I talk with Dad (and she is

> pointedly

> > > not on the phone, only in the background since her witchy phone

> > call)

> > > and I am throroughly enjoying not having to deal with her phone

> > > dominance. Then she gets a package in the mail (combo

> mom's/dad's

> > > day stuff) and all is well again. Oh she can't wait to chat!

> (ugh

> > > ugh). Then I still avoid conversing as much as possible. Just

> call

> > > Dad when I know she's not at home. Well, yesterday I got a

card

> > > from her. A SMILE.... JESUS LOVES YOU card (irony of ironies).

> A

> > > long note about stuff I've already discussed with dad. A quick

> > aside

> > > at the end re: my fibromyalgia and Oh, " I love you. "

> > > OK, I'm not really upset about the card. I just find all of it

> so

> > > laughable. Like the card was written for Dad's benefit: I can

> hear

> > > the conversation now. " Oh, honey I don't understand why

>

> > > won't talk to me... I wish we could have an adult

> relationship ...

> > oh

> > > I wrote a nice card and I hope when she gets it that all will be

> > well

> > > again. " Hahaha. Well here's how I see that card and all her

> other

> > > little gifties: they are tiny bandaids and totally disregard

any

> > > real culpability on her part. She NEVER apologizes. She

> > > only " wonders " why we don't get along to everyone BUT ME. Even

> if I

> > > did tell her why I didn't trust her, she'd turn it around onto

> me.

> > > She NEVER admits to any wrong doing (remember I'm only on the

> > > pedastal when I completely cater to her and look after her).

She

> > > thinks a card (pointedly with a Christian angle) will make up

for

> > her

> > > crappy attitude toward me. I think it is so hilarious that this

> is

> > > her way of reaching out to me. Same with the gifties. I never

> take

> > > those as nice gifts: they are tokens to avoid real healing.

And

> of

> > > course they are given so that ALL WILL BE WELL again.

> > > I don't buy it at all.

> > >

> > > Just sharing... btw, I threw the card away. Most of it was

about

> > her

> > > anyway.

> > >

>

> Dear Lonewolf,

> Thanks for the words of encouragement. I think we probably have a

> lot in common re: the nada situation. Hang in there... you will get

> it together... for YOURSELF!!

> I can honestly say that if it weren't for my sense of humor, I'd be

a

> goner. I can laugh because I've had years to learn how to deal with

> her and I've got a wonderful support group of lifelong friends who

> KNOW the witch and can laugh with me about her many antics. I don't

> know how old you are, but I'm 39 so a lot of where my head is at is

> bc I have had a lot of time to work on the ickies. You'll get

> there. I have another friend who just realized her mom is BP.. knew

> she was weird, but why??? This has been a difficult journey for her

> (she's 40). I try to help her by listening and giving her a good

> chuckle about it. These gals won't change... so only we can.

> Laughing at the idiocy works for me.

> I haven't formally sent a letter in the past year... wanted to do so

> but I figured it wouldn't be good to do it during the " crisis. " I

> still think about calling with a letter in my hand and saying it all

> to her with the final sentence being " a copy of this letter will be

> sent to any interested individuals you wish to misinform with your

> victim attitude. " I finally decided that situational boundary

> setting will work/and does work best for me, but that doesn't mean I

> haven't tried to do the letter thing. My last attempt was a

> completely unsuccessful event during my mid-20s. I bared my soul

and

> got a LIMERICK in response as well as a dressing down for sending it

> near christmas/bday time. When you do send the " letter " be prepared

> to be unsatisfied with the response. But know a cyber shoulder is

> here for you to vent to/cry on!!

> A lot of my reasoning comes from trial and error, learning to NEVER

> TRUST her, giving up on the idea of a REAL RELATIONSHIP (very

> painful) and letting it be very surface. I do what I need to do to

> maintain a connection with Dad (just another victim) and keep her at

> bay. I don't even think I love her/hate her or anything. I am

> indifferent now.

> Oh, after the cult thing (about 5 years ago), I went to the mall

with

> my friends and kept running into all my church buddies, including

the

> pastor and his wife. I had a riot with the concept of " that

> methodist cult " all evening. They were everywhere! I laughed a

lot.

> BTW, tried the easiest literati and was HORRIBLE. My hormones have

> eaten up all my good brain cells. All that's left is an ability to

> clean closets ;-).

>

> Chuckles,

>

Dear ,

You really do have a great sense of humor. That's the one thing I've

noticed that goes first in my encounters with the BPDs in my life-

nothing is funny anymore. But thankfully, I've been blessed to have a

very funny husband and so most of our lives are spent telling each

other hysterical stories of the absurd. However, when interacting

with nada, I seem to momentarily loose all that is humorous about life

for a few weeks.

Undeniably, I do need to write her a letter. Last year I clearly laid

out my boundaries when I went through a horrible depression and

melt down. I didn't speak to her for 3 or 4 months and still hadn't

learned much about BPD other than the name and symptoms (no real

guides like SWOE). Lately she has violated those boundaries on

several occassions that are abundantly clear now that I'm learning all

kinds of stuff. In SWOE, it does state that avoiding is not a

legitimate option for those of us non-bpds with their abuse simply

because it sends a message of condoning. However, my task is to find

a way to phrase it so that I'm not full of rage and anger and be

logical as well as detached. By me not writing her or explaining why

I really don't care to have much to do with her again, is a bad thing

for me simply b/c being raised by my nada has left me countless times

w/o a voice and w/o an identity. No, I'm not going to scream it from

the roof tops, but I will say it loud and clear this is how you've

abused our relationship for the last time. As to her response, I

don't think I care much. I'm not writing it for her benefit as much

as my own. She can wad it up and throw it away for all I care. She

can try to turn her new boyfriend against me or the rest of my family

for all I care. I'm strong enough to take the back lash and it's not

their battle. It's mine. So those are a few of the scenarios I've

worked in my own head of worst case and that may not be all of the

worst case options, but I do feel it important to define what i will

and will not tolerate in my life from her and that i will not continue

to lay down the boundaries and laws, but rather find a peaceful way to

let her go for good since she's a mother only in biological terms to

me anymore. That's what i need and i'm thinking of writing grandnada

too while I'm cleaning house.

The way I look it is that these people have brought me to the brink of

suicide when I was 17. My grandnada beat my father for so long as a

child, he got cancer and died when he was 30. I do hold her slightly

accountable as well as with many a warped tale she told me in

childhood. I don't care if she dies at this stage in my life. As for

my own nada, I would be slightly sad if she died, but in another way

feel as if she's already dead in my life to many degrees. She can't

do anything more to hurt me just because I've already been to the

depths of hell and made it back. Anything else she could throw my way

is chicken feed in my opinion. So I don't fear retaliation or

anything other than a life less lived on my behalf- a life without a

voice for the abused child I once was and a life with a voice on

behalf of all abused children. It is harder for me now to stay quiet

and to take the crap I don't deserve and so I'm not going to anymore.

I'm comfortable with my God, my relationship to my God, my husband

and my life and friends I've made. I know at the end of the day all I

need is inside of me and so they can't beat me down anymore than I'll

let them. But that's just my take on things and I know full well

others don't think like that.

I've never heard of the Methodists as being referred to as a cult.

How bizarre a description to use for such a loving group of people.

And does your nada believe by that standard then that Jim and

Manson were legitimate organized religions. Oh wait, don't

tell me, she lives in Waco, TX and is part of the Kerishi religion.

I've not played Literati in a while, but admit to having a dictionary

beside me at the PC at times. I think a lot of people do that as

we've jested before online with why it's taken so long to find a word

that works. lol. Actually, I try not to look too often when I play

and find Scrabble more challenging in person just b/c the option of

cheating is not viable...then I bluff, lol.

Kere

[Guest guest]

> A lot of my reasoning comes from trial and error, learning to NEVER

> TRUST her, giving up on the idea of a REAL RELATIONSHIP (very

> painful) and letting it be very surface.

This is, in a nutshell, a great description of what I am trying to

do. It is sooo hard isn't it?

Trish

[Guest guest]

> You really do have a great sense of humor. That's the one thing

> I've noticed that goes first in my encounters with the BPDs in my

> life- nothing is funny anymore.

> However, when interacting with nada, I seem to momentarily loose

> all that is humorous about life for a few weeks.

I have to be boastful for a mintue and say that I have a very good,

if not dry, sense of humor. I get it from my father and it makes me

proud. However, I lose it instantly when dealing with my nada. When

we had contact, I would have no sense of humor around her at all.

She would hone in on that and say loud so everyone could hear

that " You're too serious! Lighten up! " This was usually because I

didn't laugh at one of her " funnies " which invariably consisted of

putdowns of my father or anyone else not on her good side.

So, like you, my sense of humor is the first to go when I am with

her. I think it's because I can't relax around her, my guard is

always up, and there is nothing funny about not being validated and

valued for who you are.

Trish

[Guest guest]

Trish,

Yep! Yep! Yep! Yep! Yep! Can completely hear what you're saying loud

and clear and the sucky thing about being around the vampires is that

it usually takes me a few weeks (at best) to get my sense of humor

back. But you know what I think is very funny, since the nadas and

fadas say we don't have a sense of humor in their presence, is doing

like Pat Conroy did. I don't know if his mother was a BPD, even

though it verges on it in a couple of his books, but his father was in

the military and a hard core control freak. So what did Pat Conroy

do? He turned it into a career for the rest of the world to laugh at

and " The Great Santini " is hysterical in some realms when you're

detached from the picture, even though " Prince of Tides " isn't as

funny but has some very humorous parts too. I've toyed with the idea

for a while and have written a lot of stuff, but maybe I just need to

go for broke. As Yoda says " Think on this, I must. " - lol.

By the way, Pat Conroy's family wouldn't speak to him for years after

some of his books came out. That's a good remedy for getting them all

to shut up, huh? lol. And then we can say, 'what's the matter? Can't

take a joke? I've put up with your jokes for this long, can't you see

in my book what a joke you've been?' LOL. If they can't laugh at

their mental illnesses, why do they expect us to laugh with them? No,

I think they're funny alright, just not in the same ways they think

they're funny.

Kere

>

> > You really do have a great sense of humor. That's the one thing

> > I've noticed that goes first in my encounters with the BPDs in my

> > life- nothing is funny anymore.

>

> > However, when interacting with nada, I seem to momentarily loose

> > all that is humorous about life for a few weeks.

>

> I have to be boastful for a mintue and say that I have a very good,

> if not dry, sense of humor. I get it from my father and it makes me

> proud. However, I lose it instantly when dealing with my nada.

When

> we had contact, I would have no sense of humor around her at all.

> She would hone in on that and say loud so everyone could hear

> that " You're too serious! Lighten up! " This was usually because I

> didn't laugh at one of her " funnies " which invariably consisted of

> putdowns of my father or anyone else not on her good side.

>

> So, like you, my sense of humor is the first to go when I am with

> her. I think it's because I can't relax around her, my guard is

> always up, and there is nothing funny about not being validated and

> valued for who you are.

>

> Trish

[Guest guest]

LOL! Debbie you're too funny!

Maybe that's why I always liked Halloween the best for holidays

growing up- time to bring out the skeletons from the closet. I've

even got a plastic glow in the dark one I bring out every year. yes,

write it down and get it out, right? That's what I'm working

on.Thanks.

Kere

> In a message dated 7/11/02 5:33:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> lonewolfe30@y... writes:

>

>

> > By the way, Pat Conroy's family wouldn't speak to him for years

after

> > some of his books came out.

>

> Gals,

>

> What is the use of having skeletons in our closets if we can't drag

them out

> for decorations every once in awhile? I say write it all down...let

it all

> out! If nada (the big giant collective nada) can't handle it, she

can p*ss

> off!

>

> Hugs,

>

> Debbie

>

>

>