Re: Now I'm going to Disneyland (was an accusation)

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

>Well, in my mind we live in a " Disneyland " world. That is, we

>aren't in tune with the reality of life and death and how things

>work. The vegetarians and PETA folks are soooo divorced

>from reality: they have never seen a dead animal, for

>the most part, or seen how one animal will eat another,

>and certainly have never killed thier own dinner. So they have

>this idea that all the animals live as one happy family and

>we should all be part of this happy family. Which of

>course is just WRONG and unrealistic, and gives the

>environmentalists the image of being silly " tree huggers " .

>

As someone who grow up literally going to Disneyland, and then later,

only going in my mind, I agree with your assessment. Interestingly, I

heard PeTA actually is in the business of euthanizing animals - at least

that's what I read in the news. Perhaps that is the reality they have

come to face, that animals aren't adopted, but it sure isn't something

they plaster all over their website generally. They do advocate

veganism, so they must still be at Disneyland. But don't forget, many

of those vegan clothing products are not very environmentally friendly,

so they might come up against some tree hugger groups

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=87978 & ran=119183 & tref=po

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Newkirk said they were likely given a lethal injection of a barbiturate

that the organization is licensed to use.

PETA usually takes the animals back to Norfolk to be euthanized, Newkirk

said, in a process that involves a single hypodermic shot and a gentle

caress.

Very few are ever put up for adoption, she said.

" We won't shy away from doing society's dirty work as long as the

alternative is a life of misery and a bad or slow death, " Newkirk said.

Last year, she said, 2,278 animals were euthanized in Virginia, 7,641

sterilized and 361 put up for adoption. She said she was not sure if the

North Carolina animals were part of those statistics.

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>Ditto for vaccines. If three kids on your block died from

>super-measles, you really would think differently about the

>potential risks of a few kids having potentially adverse

>reactions, esp. after you saw 10-20 kids get the shot and

>only get a sore arm and NOT get the measles. In our

>Disneyland world, we don't see kids die from viral diseases

>much at all, so the potential risk seems small. As a person

>who survived measles and mumps myself, and having

>seen some of the side effects, the very small potential

>risk of the vaccine doesn't seem to be that big a deal.

>Esp. if the main risk is to the gut flora ... shoot, some

>good kefir will take care of that easily!

>

DS hasn't gotten chicken pox and I am wondering about the vaccine, now

that it's been out there for awhile. I'd have to read up on it first,

but I too take the approach that our old ND suggested about considering

vaccines on a case by case, risk of disease vs. risk of side effects

basis. BTW, is anyone getting polio in the US anymore?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>As someone who grow up literally going to Disneyland, and then later,

>only going in my mind, I agree with your assessment.

Oh, me too! We went there so much when I was a kid. You should

read " Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom " ... excellent read! I

did love the place and still do. Getting away from reality is

a good thing sometimes.

> Interestingly, I

>heard PeTA actually is in the business of euthanizing animals - at least

>that's what I read in the news. Perhaps that is the reality they have

>come to face, that animals aren't adopted, but it sure isn't something

>they plaster all over their website generally. They do advocate

>veganism, so they must still be at Disneyland. But don't forget, many

>of those vegan clothing products are not very environmentally friendly,

>so they might come up against some tree hugger groups

I feel for them. It took me a long time to face up to the fact that

if you want to keep chickens, you gotta eat chicken sometimes.

And going from that to dealing with dead cows. It sure changes

how you look at the world though, for the better.

I was reading in Discover that there is currently a controversy

between the hunters and those who want to preserve the

forests. Not what you'd think! The forest preservers want

MORE deer killed annually because they feel there are too many of

them and they are overgrazing. The hunters want more deer

population so they are easier to find. More and more environmentalists

are getting into the " meat eater " mode too, and the fields

where I live are popping up more and more cattle I've noticed (this

used to be big dairy country, but the farms went bust. Now cattle

are coming back).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>I feel for them. It took me a long time to face up to the fact that

>if you want to keep chickens, you gotta eat chicken sometimes.

>And going from that to dealing with dead cows. It sure changes

>how you look at the world though, for the better.

>

>

Well, if you want to live locally - which we all pretty much have to pre

and post cheap oil era - then your foodstuffs will have to include

animals, if you want to live. I'm not there yet, but it is the reality

for most of us middle class folks. Locusts, as an example, just have a

lot more nutrients than greens ... and my chickens prefer them bug

critters to plant foods as well. Heck, it is the nature of life,

something must die so that another can live. This weekend we lost an

adult rooster to a opposum - had the markings of that kind of kill, no

head or guts. We still have two more roosters, so we are set now and

coop them all together at night again, separating them in the daytimes

often.

>I was reading in Discover that there is currently a controversy

>between the hunters and those who want to preserve the

>forests. Not what you'd think! The forest preservers want

>MORE deer killed annually because they feel there are too many of

>them and they are overgrazing. The hunters want more deer

>population so they are easier to find. More and more environmentalists

>are getting into the " meat eater " mode too, and the fields

>where I live are popping up more and more cattle I've noticed (this

>used to be big dairy country, but the farms went bust. Now cattle

>are coming back).

>

Most hunters these days are lazy couch potatoes, not willing to take the

time and track, stalk and make a good clean kill. Not very

" sportsman-like " imo. Hunters do kill does now as well, which used to

be unheard of, maybe still is in some places. As you know, we all have

compound hunting bows and will probably start with turkeys next spring.

It is a matter of balance. The Circle of Life, Simba, which brings us

nicely back to Disneyland.

I lived in the Southland once upon a time, so I really got to go to

Disneyland often. However, I liked living in Northern CA way way way

better, though. Were you a local too?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>This weekend we lost an

>adult rooster to a opposum - had the markings of that kind of kill, no

>head or guts. We still have two more roosters, so we are set now and

>coop them all together at night again, separating them in the daytimes

>often.

Sorry to hear it.

>Most hunters these days are lazy couch potatoes, not willing to take the

>time and track, stalk and make a good clean kill. Not very

> " sportsman-like " imo. Hunters do kill does now as well, which used to

>be unheard of, maybe still is in some places. As you know, we all have

>compound hunting bows and will probably start with turkeys next spring.

>It is a matter of balance. The Circle of Life, Simba, which brings us

>nicely back to Disneyland.

Yeah, I kinda liked that they addressed FOOD at least ...

but here is this lion who has all the antelopes bowing

down to him, don't show him eating antelopes!

The hunters I know are basically ok, but I know what

you are talking about. The only ones I can't understand

are the ones that raise a batch of pheasants, the

release them and shoot them as they are flying away,

for target practice. (Actually I think there might be

another reason for that though: to train their dogs).

Bow hunting is certainly more " sportsmanlike " but I

think it IS a sport .. involving lots of time and work,

and I have way too many other projects ... it takes too

much time to get food as it is, I'm working on efficiency!

My dd is learning to shoot a bow though: she loves it.

I love that it's quiet and doesn't leave lead shot all over

the place, and you can re-use arrows, and they don't

go clear to the next county if you mis-shoot.

>I lived in the Southland once upon a time, so I really got to go to

>Disneyland often. However, I liked living in Northern CA way way way

>better, though. Were you a local too?

Oh, I LOVED Northern CA better! It's one of the reasons I

fell in love with Washington: it's more like North CA. I grew

up in South Central LA, right by the jet path. I swear, when

I go visit my Mom there are 5 or so jets in the sky every time

I look up. I hated it there, and got out as soon as I could, though

I would have been better off if I'd stuck it out and gone to UCLA.

But yeah, we went to Disneyland a lot, so much that after awhile

we ignored most of the rides and just went to the Blue Bayou for

dinner, and rode the Indian War canoes and played on Tom Sawyer's

island. I loved the tree house too, still do. All that binding and rope

work! The architecture is amazing, and the level of detail, though I

guess most people ignore that part of it. My Dad would sketch it

though, hour after hour (an Aspie thing yeah!).

>

Heidi Jean