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Re: OT: Props to Gmail

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I forwarded a message to my gmail account with the word sausage in the subject.

Next thing I know there were adds and links for sausage related things in the ad

space. So, gmail is reading the subjects of all email? It felt invasive. The

set up of threads is nice though.

---Carol

Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

I just opened up a Gmail account (from Google) that I use for my lists now, and

I have nothing but praise for it. People who use groups or other email

lists may want to consider using Gmail for the list accounts.

All of your past mail gets saved on your personal space on Google's server, and

you can *search* your past mail for keywords. The emails are automatically

organized by topic, so that when you click on one email, all the emails in that

thread that are new are posted in order, and all of the old ones can be opened

up by clicking on a hypertext link to " show hidden messages, " and then are shown

in order with a

list of hypertext links labelled by the author of the message for easy

navigation.

Chris

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On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:20:55 -0800 (PST)

Carol Saunders <carolnpepa@...> wrote:

> I forwarded a message to my gmail account with the word sausage in

>the subject. Next thing I know there were adds and links for sausage

>related things in the ad space. So, gmail is reading the subjects of

>all email? It felt invasive. The set up of threads is nice though.

Yes it does and this has caused a great outcry in many circles. My

suggestion would be to use a good email program that does list managing.

I use Becky which is probably the best email client I have used thus far,

and I have tried a ton. Becky has the thread feature and many other

useful and very helpful features.

http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm

What I would do is get a account and then set it up so that your

messages are forwarded to your email inbox on your hard drive (in Becky

or whatever client you are using). You can pay a yearly fee to to

have your mail forwarded or you can install a free utility that will do

it for you.

After that it is just a matter of setting up your lists according to

your preferences in Becky or whathaveyou. Works great and it keeps

everything nicely segregated from my personal email account.

" I feel sorry for all those health food

people. Someday, they will be lying in a hospital bed,

dying of nothing. "

Redd Foxx

=================================================

" This is what the king who will reign over you will do:

He will take... He will take... He will take... He will take...

... he will take... He will take... "

(I 8:11-17)

=================================================

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>I forwarded a message to my gmail account with the word sausage in the subject.

Next thing I know there were adds and links for sausage related things in the ad

space. So, gmail is reading the subjects of all email? It felt invasive. The

set up of threads is nice though.

>

> ---Carol

>

Carol,

Definitely gmail has privacy issues. If you want a very nice search

ability without the Big Brother aspects of gmail, you might want to try

Mozilla Thunderbird. Convenience of threads comes at a privacy price

with gmail.

http://www.google-watch.org/gmail.html

Deanna

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> I forwarded a message to my gmail account with the word sausage in the

> subject. Next thing I know there were adds and links for sausage related

> things in the ad space. So, gmail is reading the subjects of all email?

> It felt invasive. The set up of threads is nice though.

>

> ---Carol

Their ad and privacy faq http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/about.html#faq

Ads same as google reading search. Privacy better than groups that you

need to opt out of.

Wanita

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005

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Quoting Carol Saunders <carolnpepa@...>:

> I forwarded a message to my gmail account with the word sausage in the

> subject. Next thing I know there were adds and links for sausage related

> things in the ad space. So, gmail is reading the subjects of all email?

> It felt invasive. The set up of threads is nice though.

In some sense, all e-mail providers " read " not only subject lines, but also

the full text of the e-mail. I'm not sure how you envision e-mail working,

but it's not at all like the postal model where the content is sealed in an

envelope until it reaches the hands of the recipient. E-mail must be read,

copied, and forwarded (by nonsentient machines) a number of times before it

finally reaches you.

The only difference is that Google takes an intermediate step: nonsentient

machines, rather than reading the mail as a meaningless stream of

characters, look for individual words and use those to retrieve (dubiously)

relevant ads from their ad database.

Yes, as Google Watch (speaking of dubious...) says, it's *possible* that

they could be storing information about keywords in your mail keyed to your

e-mail address. But so could any other e-mail provider. The fact that Google

advertises their ability to see your e-mail doesn't mean that their access

to it is greater than that of any other provider, nor does it constitute

evidence that they're abusing it.

The point about mail staying on their servers for long periods of time is

valid, as is the point that the government could force them to release this

mail (they can also subpoena your computer, but I'll grant that they can't

cast a very wide net with that). But these don't concern me at all, because

there's nothing in my GMail account that I'm afraid to have made public.

This is because I've known for years that...

E-MAIL IS NOT SECURE. Not GMail, not , not AOL, and not your friendly

neighborhood ISP. Anything you send can (and almost certainly won't) be

intercepted and read by any of a number of people along the way. If you

have a message that would arouse the interest of the state, don't send it

by e-mail. If you must, use encryption, and make sure you trust the

recipient both to keep the contents secret and to delete it with all due

haste.

That said, no one at Google is reading your mail, and for the vast majority

of us, having it subpoenaed is not likely, so I use my GMail account (for

non-criminal communications) with no worries whatsoever. If anyone can

think of a plausible scenario in which this could lead to dire

consequences, I'd be interested to hear it.

--

Berg

bberg@...

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I realize that email is not secure, but what happend was unsettling none the

less. Luckily for me I don't have criminally relevant communications in my email

either. :o)

---Carol

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Just as a FYI, most other large free web based email providers do the

same as what Google does - it is just that Google became more

noticeable for some reason.

I know for sure that does the same, and their " content

targeted " marketing is more obnoxious than Google's.

The difference is that Google targets its adverts based on the

contents of the messages, whereas targets its adverts based on

your user profile, especially your sex, age, location and industry.

Take your pick which one you like or hate more - content targeted or

profile targeted.

On I can easily predict the type of advertisements I get

because it matches my age, sex, and location.

For instance, I get mortgage refi ads for my city, cell phone plans

and long distance calling plans for my city, ditto for insurance

company ads.

I get adverts targeted towards men, specifically in my age group, and

so on.

If you wish to verify this, simply change your user profile and give

a zip code in say, California.

You will start received popup ads and email spam for mortgage refis

in California.

Similarly specify your age as a 25 yr old female, interested in

beauty and cosmetics, and watch the adverts change !

As others have said, no one is " reading " your emails or profiles - it

is just that the definition of " smart computers " is changing with

time.

My $0.02 CAD.

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I have a paid larger mailbox with , so I guess I don't see those ads.

Perhaps that is why I noticed the google adds right off. cs

Pratick Mukherjee <pratickmukherjee@...> wrote:

Just as a FYI, most other large free web based email providers do the same as

what Google does - it is just that Google became more noticeable for some

reason.

I know for sure that does the same, and their " content

targeted " marketing is more obnoxious than Google's.

The difference is that Google targets its adverts based on the contents of the

messages, whereas targets its adverts based on your user profile,

especially your sex, age, location and industry.

Take your pick which one you like or hate more - content targeted or profile

targeted.

On I can easily predict the type of advertisements I get because it

matches my age, sex, and location.

For instance, I get mortgage refi ads for my city, cell phone plans and long

distance calling plans for my city, ditto for insurance company ads.

I get adverts targeted towards men, specifically in my age group, and so on.

If you wish to verify this, simply change your user profile and give a zip code

in say, California. You will start received popup ads and email spam for

mortgage refis

in California.

Similarly specify your age as a 25 yr old female, interested in beauty and

cosmetics, and watch the adverts change !

As others have said, no one is " reading " your emails or profiles - it is just

that the definition of " smart computers " is changing with time.

My $0.02 CAD.

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On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:28:40 -0800, Berg <bberg@...> wrote:

> In some sense, all e-mail providers " read " not only subject lines, but also

> the full text of the e-mail. I'm not sure how you envision e-mail working,

> but it's not at all like the postal model where the content is sealed in an

> envelope until it reaches the hands of the recipient. E-mail must be read,

> copied, and forwarded (by nonsentient machines) a number of times before it

> finally reaches you.

>

> The only difference is that Google takes an intermediate step: nonsentient

> machines, rather than reading the mail as a meaningless stream of

> characters, look for individual words and use those to retrieve (dubiously)

> relevant ads from their ad database.

Those were my thoughts too. No person, I doubt, is actually reading

my email. The automated commercial response might seem creepy, but it

is no indication that any sentient person is actually paying

attention-- and if they WERE paying attention, they'd probably want to

do so discreetly, like any other email provider *could* conceivably be

doing.

I find the ads completely non-intrusive, and in fact haven't even

noticed the first one yet.

Chris

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