Re: Cookbooks Record a History of Dietary Changes

[Guest guest]

The Old Fort Niagara society sells a cookbook from the early 1800's. It is

really enlightening. There are very few recipe's that don't use lard,

tallow, suet, butter, cream, eggs etc. It sells for about $15. I don't know

where the information is right now on how to contact them. I posted it here

a while ago. When I find it I can post it again.

Irene

At 11:07 AM 12/8/2004, you wrote:

>Sally Fallon & Enig have brought up old-fashioned cookbooks in

>their articles, often describing how we Westerners have changed our

>eaten habits over the years. This subject fascinates me since 1) I love

>old books in general as they open a window on the past in ways

>unattainable from modern reports, and 2) there is so much wisdom in

>viewing the recipes of the day and contrasting them with modern ones.

>Unfortunately, I haven't any REALLY old books yet in the arena of

>cookery, mostly they span the '50s and '60s.

>

>I have a 1950 Monticello Cookbook which has wine and other fermentation

>recipes and tid bits from Virginia's distant past. Sea food, cream,

>organs, and sauces figure prominently in this book. I uploaded a recipe

>from it, and one from ph s Winery in Napa.

>

>Most telling are the two editions I possess of the New York Times

>Cookbook - the 1961 and 1990. In just 29 years, the low fat,

>politically correct ideas are brought to the forefront. But it really

>is not so much substance as it is presentation. One way this is done is

>that poultry and fish are listed before red meats in the later edition,

>and way more carb foods have their own sections; whereas the '61 copy

>has beef, lamb and pork listed first in a separate " Meats " section and

>the few carb foods are lumped in with Eggs, Cheese, Rice and Pasta "

>dishes. Just flipping through appetizers in each book reveals meat and

>fat laden foods in the old copy, with olives and sandwiches prevailing

>in the new one. To their credit, most recipes are repeated exactly.

>But only the 1961 book has pictures :-)

>

>So, does anyone else here revel in old books and recipes?

>

>Deanna

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I like Mrs. Beeton's book because she always serves a 1/2 calf head

when company comes and says to make sure to serve some eyes and brains

to the guest of honor.

B.

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:07:39 -0600, Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

>

> Sally Fallon & Enig have brought up old-fashioned cookbooks in

> their articles, often describing how we Westerners have changed our

> eaten habits over the years. This subject fascinates me since 1) I love

> old books in general as they open a window on the past in ways

> unattainable from modern reports, and 2) there is so much wisdom in

> viewing the recipes of the day and contrasting them with modern ones.

> Unfortunately, I haven't any REALLY old books yet in the arena of

> cookery, mostly they span the '50s and '60s.

>

> I have a 1950 Monticello Cookbook which has wine and other fermentation

> recipes and tid bits from Virginia's distant past. Sea food, cream,

> organs, and sauces figure prominently in this book. I uploaded a recipe

> from it, and one from ph s Winery in Napa.

>

> Most telling are the two editions I possess of the New York Times

> Cookbook - the 1961 and 1990. In just 29 years, the low fat,

> politically correct ideas are brought to the forefront. But it really

> is not so much substance as it is presentation. One way this is done is

> that poultry and fish are listed before red meats in the later edition,

> and way more carb foods have their own sections; whereas the '61 copy

> has beef, lamb and pork listed first in a separate " Meats " section and

> the few carb foods are lumped in with Eggs, Cheese, Rice and Pasta "

> dishes. Just flipping through appetizers in each book reveals meat and

> fat laden foods in the old copy, with olives and sandwiches prevailing

> in the new one. To their credit, most recipes are repeated exactly.

> But only the 1961 book has pictures :-)

>

> So, does anyone else here revel in old books and recipes?

>

> Deanna

>

>

[Guest guest]

The Old Fort Niagara society sells a cookbook from the early 1800's. It is

really enlightening. There are very few recipe's that don't use lard,

tallow, suet, butter, cream, eggs etc. It sells for about $15. I don't know

where the information is right now on how to contact them. I posted it here

a while ago. When I find it I can post it again.

Irene

--------------------

Oh yes, I would be interested, Irene. I'll tell y'all what I'll do.

You send me the information and I'll compile it as a resource for the

group. Silly me, I'm always going to the antique malls for stuff like

this ... but then I can buy furniture as well

Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

I like Mrs. Beeton's book because she always serves a 1/2 calf head

when company comes and says to make sure to serve some eyes and brains

to the guest of honor.

B.

----------------

What a hoot, ! When I was vegetarian, my kids and I would get all

grossed out at the cow heads at the Mexican market. Pray tell, how does

one purchase her book?

Deanna, who loves men because they are cute and fuzzy and think like her

[Guest guest]

From: Deanna <<So, does anyone else here revel in old books and recipes?>>

Deanna,

The Old Timer Page - The Way We Used To Do it...

http://waltonfeed.com/old/index.html

lots of recepies such as 'head cheese', 'how to make butter', 'long life salt

cured ham' and much much more incl. Butchering The Hog.!!

Dedy

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

I stumbled on it at the library. It's a classic.

_Mrs. Beeton's guide to Houehold Management_

Try half.com.

Mrs. Beeton's recipe for jugged hare:

" First, catch your hare... "

B.

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:50:27 -0600, Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

>

> I like Mrs. Beeton's book because she always serves a 1/2 calf head

> when company comes and says to make sure to serve some eyes and brains

> to the guest of honor.

> B.

> ----------------

>

> What a hoot, ! When I was vegetarian, my kids and I would get all

> grossed out at the cow heads at the Mexican market. Pray tell, how does

> one purchase her book?

>

> Deanna, who loves men because they are cute and fuzzy and think like her

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

I am just going to sit back and let you do the work! Of course I'll be

seething enviously the whole time that I'm packing...but that will be

keeping me busy. And then I can just get the best of it when you have

compiled all the info! Too Cool! I love old cookbooks, and how to

books...they actually used to have books that told you how to do all

this housewife stuff that my grandmother never passed on to my mom,

and so forth!

Ah well...I'm off!

Catz - counting days and praying

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:07:39 -0600, Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

> Sally Fallon & Enig have brought up old-fashioned cookbooks in

> their articles, often describing how we Westerners have changed our

> eaten habits over the years. This subject fascinates me since 1) I love

> old books in general as they open a window on the past in ways

> unattainable from modern reports, and 2) there is so much wisdom in

> viewing the recipes of the day and contrasting them with modern ones.

[Guest guest]

[] I am just going to sit back and let you do the work! Of course

I'll be

seething enviously the whole time that I'm packing...but that will be

keeping me busy. And then I can just get the best of it when you have

compiled all the info! Too Cool!

Yeah, well, I figure I've been blabbing away so much lately, I might as

well do something to earn my keep. Keep those resource ideas coming,

and thank you also to Dedy for that great online resource! Excellent site.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

I've sorta been looking for very old cookbooks. I want to go way back before

anyone told us that whole, natural foods are " bad " for us. I haven't bought

any as money is scarce.

Have you seen these?

http://shesorganized.com/bookreview-0486247104.html

-----Original Message-----

Sally Fallon & Enig have brought up old-fashioned cookbooks in

their articles, often describing how we Westerners have changed our

eaten habits over the years. This subject fascinates me since 1) I love

old books in general as they open a window on the past in ways

unattainable from modern reports, and 2) there is so much wisdom in

viewing the recipes of the day and contrasting them with modern ones.

Unfortunately, I haven't any REALLY old books yet in the arena of

cookery, mostly they span the '50s and '60s.

I have a 1950 Monticello Cookbook which has wine and other fermentation

recipes and tid bits from Virginia's distant past. Sea food, cream,

organs, and sauces figure prominently in this book. I uploaded a recipe

from it, and one from ph s Winery in Napa.

Most telling are the two editions I possess of the New York Times

Cookbook - the 1961 and 1990. In just 29 years, the low fat,

politically correct ideas are brought to the forefront. But it really

is not so much substance as it is presentation. One way this is done is

that poultry and fish are listed before red meats in the later edition,

and way more carb foods have their own sections; whereas the '61 copy

has beef, lamb and pork listed first in a separate " Meats " section and

the few carb foods are lumped in with Eggs, Cheese, Rice and Pasta "

dishes. Just flipping through appetizers in each book reveals meat and

fat laden foods in the old copy, with olives and sandwiches prevailing

in the new one. To their credit, most recipes are repeated exactly.

But only the 1961 book has pictures :-)

So, does anyone else here revel in old books and recipes?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> anyone told us that whole, natural foods are " bad " for us. I

haven't bought

> any as money is scarce.

>

--> Not the ones you linked to but I've gotten some nice ones from the

50s and 60s cheap on Amazon. Two are Out of the Stockpot and Adelle

's Let's Cook it Right. ( talks uses soy but she also talks

about long simmered broths using lots of vinegar and cooking all the

organs in an animal)

Lynn

[Guest guest]

> --> Not the ones you linked to but I've gotten some nice ones from the

> 50s and 60s cheap on Amazon. Two are Out of the Stockpot and Adelle

> 's Let's Cook it Right. ( talks uses soy but she also talks

> about long simmered broths using lots of vinegar and cooking all the

> organs in an animal)

I have " Out of the Stockpot " and I'm very fond of it. It's in the

tradition of cookbook author as friendly kitchen companion and

raconteur, too, so it's fun to just read.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

Lynn-

>I have " Out of the Stockpot " and I'm very fond of it. It's in the

>tradition of cookbook author as friendly kitchen companion and

>raconteur, too, so it's fun to just read.

I'll third that recommendation -- he really improved my stocks -- but he

did, unfortunately, think highly of the nutritional qualities of

factory-farm meat.

-

[Guest guest]

> I'll third that recommendation -- he really improved my stocks --

but he

> did, unfortunately, think highly of the nutritional qualities of

> factory-farm meat.

----> Yeah like Adelle promoting soy in her otherwise wonderful

cookbook! I think these writers were on the cusp of changes so they

have one foot in the past and one in the unfortunate future.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Here's an old one that free:

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/beeton/isabella/household/index.html

I'll post this to our links also. Would be a nice addition to have old

cookbooks to recommend.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:27:56 -0500, Judith Alta wrote:

>

> I've sorta been looking for very old cookbooks. I want to go way

> back before anyone told us that whole, natural foods are " bad " for

> us.  I haven't bought any as money is scarce.

>

> Have you seen these?

>

> http://shesorganized.com/bookreview-0486247104.html

It depends on if you are the type that needs things scientific Fannie Farmer

style. These are reprints of late-18th century early 19th century cookbooks; a

time when recipes were extremely sketchy by our expectations. The whole thing

of specifying how many (standardized) tablespoons and how many (standardized)

cups doesn't come until the scientific home economics movement almost a hundred

years or so after these. Another thing to be aware of is that this is before

chemical leaveners (e.g. baking soda) and standardized yeast. Knowledge of very

different basic cooking techniques is assumed.

That said, the era these books are from is considered the absolute height in

quality of American cuisine by some authors

(The Taste of America. By L. Hess and Hess. Now considered a classic

in food history, this readable and authentic history of food, cooking, and

cookbooks in America draws on original sources such as cookery manuscripts and

books and gardening manuals. The authors trace the historical decline of

American food and cooking and argue that the golden age of American cookery

occurred in the first half-century of the republic.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0252068750 )

The Virginia Housewife by Randolph I have in my bookshelf. She was a

cousin of Jefferson.

You might want to check out the foodbooks.com listing of books if you are

interested in this era of food history, as the link you gave is very sparse:

http://www.foodbooks.com/American.htm

Joan Cole

[Guest guest]

Packed away in the deepest reaches of this 4.5 acre plot are some of Adele's

books. I'd forgotten all about them. I'll have to call out the search dogs

and see what I can find.

If you are wondering, 7.5 years ago we merged two fully furnished houses.

We're still not unpacked!

Lynn, I just read your tag line. What kind of a " fiber junky " are you?

Enjoy! ;-)

Judith Alta

----Original Message-----

> --> Not the ones you linked to but I've gotten some nice ones from the

> 50s and 60s cheap on Amazon. Two are Out of the Stockpot and Adelle

> 's Let's Cook it Right. ( talks uses soy but she also talks

> about long simmered broths using lots of vinegar and cooking all the

> organs in an animal)

I have " Out of the Stockpot " and I'm very fond of it. It's in the

tradition of cookbook author as friendly kitchen companion and

raconteur, too, so it's fun to just read.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

> Lynn, I just read your tag line. What kind of a " fiber junky " are you?

What kind you got? I spin, knit, weave, dye, sew, tat, crochet,

needlepoint, embroider, quilt...well, you get the idear...

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

Hi Joan,

Thanks for the info.

I'm 64 and grew up with a lot of my mothers " to taste " recipes.

My mother's ice cream recipe:

Eggs,

Milk

A bit of salt

Sugar

Flour and water for thickening

Beat eggs add milk and a little thickening (don't want it too thick) cook

until it starts to thicken. Cool and put in ice cream freezer.

If nothing else I think knowing the ingredients of their recipes is very

interesting.

I ran across Martha Washington's Cookbook a couple of months ago. Today I

Googled it and that link is one came up.

Enjoy! ;-)

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:27:56 -0500, Judith Alta wrote:

>

> I've sorta been looking for very old cookbooks. I want to go way

> back before anyone told us that whole, natural foods are " bad " for

> us. I haven't bought any as money is scarce.

>

> Have you seen these?

>

> http://shesorganized.com/bookreview-0486247104.html

It depends on if you are the type that needs things scientific Fannie Farmer

style. These are reprints of late-18th century early 19th century

cookbooks; a time when recipes were extremely sketchy by our expectations.

The whole thing of specifying how many (standardized) tablespoons and how

many (standardized) cups doesn't come until the scientific home economics

movement almost a hundred years or so after these. Another thing to be

aware of is that this is before chemical leaveners (e.g. baking soda) and

standardized yeast. Knowledge of very different basic cooking techniques is

assumed.

That said, the era these books are from is considered the absolute height in

quality of American cuisine by some authors

(The Taste of America. By L. Hess and Hess. Now considered a

classic in food history, this readable and authentic history of food,

cooking, and cookbooks in America draws on original sources such as cookery

manuscripts and books and gardening manuals. The authors trace the

historical decline of American food and cooking and argue that the golden

age of American cookery occurred in the first half-century of the republic.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0252068750 )

The Virginia Housewife by Randolph I have in my bookshelf. She was a

cousin of Jefferson.

You might want to check out the foodbooks.com listing of books if you are

interested in this era of food history, as the link you gave is very sparse:

http://www.foodbooks.com/American.htm

Joan Cole

[Guest guest]

I'm going to have to pinch my pennies and get that one! It sounds great!

Thanks,

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

>I ran across Martha Washington's Cookbook a couple of months ago. Today I

>Googled it and that link is one came up.

>

>Enjoy! ;-)

>

>Judith Alta

I have that one. I LOVE it. It is annotated with translations for modern

Americans.

Also " The American Frugal Housewife " .

Heidi [HJ] [HTG]

" Cheer up....Things could get worse "

So I cheered up.....and sure enough, things got worse

[Guest guest]

>I ran across Martha Washington's Cookbook a couple of months ago. Today I

>Googled it and that link is one came up.

>

>Enjoy! ;-)

>

>Judith Alta

I have that one. I LOVE it. It is annotated with translations for modern

Americans.

Also " The American Frugal Housewife " .

Heidi [HJ] [HTG]

" Cheer up....Things could get worse "

So I cheered up.....and sure enough, things got worse

[Guest guest]

> >I ran across Martha Washington's Cookbook a couple of months ago. Today I

> >Googled it and that link is one came up.

> >

> >Enjoy! ;-)

> >

> >Judith Alta

>

> I have that one. I LOVE it. It is annotated with translations for

> modern Americans.

> Also " The American Frugal Housewife " .

> Heidi [HJ] [HTG]

Y'all are coming up with some great ideas. Thank you. I am filing them

away with any specific recommendations as to why the book/resource is

helpful for traditional living. So as you send in any more, especially

the hard to locate sources, please send an address or purchase

information as available, along with why you like it.

I plan to do my own research as well. In fact, it dawned on me that

this type of resource guide would be a perfect assignment for my budding

writers! So, I plan to do this technical report writing group project

with my guys. Let's plan to include traditional living resources as

well. Soap, candle making and other trades that have been forgotten or

left to the production line will be included. We will make it strictly

a guide, probably in pdf format (good way to introduce it) with a

section each for recipe/nutrition and healthy living resources. We'll

call it something like " Traditional Wisdom Remembered: A Guide to the

Healthy Eating and Living of our Forefathers " or something shorter. We

will introduce each section and set it up in table format, but I'll have

to consult the boys before I get too carried away, lol.

So keep those book, website and other resources coming.

Thank you.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> I plan to do my own research as well. In fact, it dawned on me that

> this type of resource guide would be a perfect assignment for my

> budding

> writers! So, I plan to do this technical report writing group project

> with my guys. Let's plan to include traditional living resources as

> well. Soap, candle making and other trades that have been forgotten or

> left to the production line will be included. We will make it strictly

> a guide, probably in pdf format (good way to introduce it) with a

> section each for recipe/nutrition and healthy living resources. We'll

> call it something like " Traditional Wisdom Remembered: A Guide to the

> Healthy Eating and Living of our Forefathers " or something shorter. We

> will introduce each section and set it up in table format, but I'll

> have

> to consult the boys before I get too carried away, lol.

Golly, if you need help with that or a distribution channel or even

just a pointer when it's finished, let me know. My readership would be

very interested.

Lynn S.

I'm not a home economist, I just play one on the web...

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

[Lynn]Golly, if you need help with that or a distribution channel or

even just a pointer when it's finished, let me know. My readership would

be very interested.

Lynn S.

I'm not a home economist, I just play one on the web...

[Deanna] Lynn, thank you. As a homeschool instructor and former

student, I feel strongly that some of the best writing assignments are

those with real world application. Of course, I will need you editors

to proofread and otherwise comment on the style of the final guide; and

when it's all nice and finished, then it will be freely available to

distribute as you please. And letting my boys know that many many

people will be viewing this guide will assist them in doing their very

best work

Research topics are great. I learned so much from the residential water

guide I produced years ago. It was an assignment but a really helpful

tool for health conscious people in my community. Rather scary business

seeing the reports of contaminants in a city's supply of treated water.

So this should be fun in a more positive light, lol. Expect it by March

at the latest.

Deanna, who needs deadlines

[Guest guest]

I've sorta been looking for very old cookbooks. I want to go way back before

anyone told us that whole, natural foods are " bad " for us. I haven't bought

any as money is scarce.

Hi Judith,

Hmmm...is this too old for you? At any rate, the price is right! :-)

http://www.godecookery.com/godeboke/godeboke.htmhttp://www.godecookery.com/goder\

ec/goderec.htm

An interesting read. Enjoy! Renée ;-)

[Guest guest]

Hi Renée,

The link didn't work. I got a " file not found " message.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

I've sorta been looking for very old cookbooks. I want to go way back before

anyone told us that whole, natural foods are " bad " for us. I haven't bought

any as money is scarce.

Hi Judith,

Hmmm...is this too old for you? At any rate, the price is right! :-)

http://www.godecookery.com/godeboke/godeboke.htmhttp://www.godecookery.com/g

oderec/goderec.htm

An interesting read. Enjoy! Renée ;-)