Re: Re: vitamin D for babies

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/8/2004 7:44:35 PM Central Standard Time,

writes:

Hi Stefanie. Light skinned Northern folks (Swedes, Norwegians, etc.)

have adapted over thousands of years to synthesize vitamin D from sun

more readily than darker skinned equatorial ethnic groups. So while it

is definitely a consideration to get more sources of this vitamin in the

diet in winter when we are indoors more, it is an individual

consideration. Dark skinned people living in the north have to worry

about it more, as rickets occurs to this particular group frequently.

i agree with you wholheartedly that adaptation has (and is) taking place,

but wouldn't call it adequately esp when statistics for things such as suicide

increase by the hundredfold percentage wise in the winter months of the year.

the full spectrum lighting is a great idea though and i noticed that some of

the lamps are on sale right now from gaiam.

in Christ,

stefanie

[Guest guest]

[stefanie]don't remember the mothers name but in reading into this yes

you are right people living that far north don't get enough sun to

supply vitamin D needs in the winter.

Hi Stefanie. Light skinned Northern folks (Swedes, Norwegians, etc.)

have adapted over thousands of years to synthesize vitamin D from sun

more readily than darker skinned equatorial ethnic groups. So while it

is definitely a consideration to get more sources of this vitamin in the

diet in winter when we are indoors more, it is an individual

consideration. Dark skinned people living in the north have to worry

about it more, as rickets occurs to this particular group frequently.

I am wondering if Pratick (I think it was) could put baby in front of a

sunny window. I have no clue about glass possibly getting in the way,

but if there is any sun, it might be an occasional supplement to

everything else. Maybe?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Deanna: Light skinned Northern folks (Swedes, Norwegians, etc.)

> have adapted over thousands of years to synthesize vitamin D from sun

> more readily than darker skinned equatorial ethnic groups.

I have heard this my entire life... but yet I am 3/4 " light skinned

Northern Folks (Swedes, Norwegians, Danish), and I had problems every

winter living in Chicago. I added full spectrum lighting to my house,

and this helps. When I moved to Mesa, there was sun for several hours

every day, and oh the intensity of it was glorious. Now back up to

about the same lattitude in Idaho, and I am having problems this year

again. So I would definately say that it is an individual matter, and

sometimes genetics don't work the way they are supposed to!

Deanna: I am wondering if Pratick (I think it was) could put baby in front of a

> sunny window. I have no clue about glass possibly getting in the way,

> but if there is any sun, it might be an occasional supplement to

> everything else. Maybe?

Sitting in a sunny window only works if there is sun. LOL (Chicago

only had sun for a couple hours a week for most of the winter, and

that was through pale clouds...I would imagine Canada to be similar or

worse.)

Catz

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:51:12 -0600, Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

>

> I am wondering if Pratick (I think it was) could put baby in front of a

> sunny window. I have no clue about glass possibly getting in the way,

> but if there is any sun, it might be an occasional supplement to

> everything else. Maybe?

++++++++++++++++++++++

Deanna,

The glass blocks the UV radiation so I think it doesn't work. Doesn't

work for reptiles, anyway, which I have a lot of experience with in

lieu of human babies.

B.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

[Deanna] Light skinned Northern folks (Swedes, Norwegians, etc.) have

adapted over thousands of years to synthesize vitamin D from sun more

readily than darker skinned equatorial ethnic groups. So while it is

definitely a consideration to get more sources of this vitamin in the

diet in winter when we are indoors more, it is an individual

consideration. Dark skinned people living in the north have to worry

about it more, as rickets occurs to this particular group frequently.

[stefanie] i agree with you wholheartedly that adaptation has (and is)

taking place, but wouldn't call it adequately esp when statistics for

things such as suicide increase by the hundredfold percentage wise in

the winter months of the year. the full spectrum lighting is a great

idea though and i noticed that some of the lamps are on sale right now

from gaiam.

[Deanna] This is an interesting topic for me. My ancestors come from

Scotland and Sweden. I tan easily, yet I have never suffered from SAD

nor vit. D deficiency as far as I know - not even when I lived at

latitude 53N in UK when this time of year it is only light from 9 am to

3 pm. This is an equivalent latitude to Edmonton, Alberta.

From what I have read, SAD is caused by low vitamin D. Here is one

study from the NCBI which showed Vitamin D supplement helped SAD,

whereas phototherapy did nothing:

*http://tinyurl.com/6khr8

**Vitamin D vs broad spectrum phototherapy in the treatment of seasonal

affective disorder.*

*Gloth FM 3rd, Alam W, Hollis B.*

The Department of Medicine, The Union Memorial Hospital, Baltimore,

land 21218-2895, USA.

Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) is prevalent when vitamin D stores are

typically low. Broad-spectrum light therapy includes wavelengths between

280-320 nm which allow the skin to produce vitamin D. This study was

designed to test the hypothesis that vitamin D deficiency might play a

role in SAD. A prospective, randomized controlled trial was conducted in

a group of 15 subjects with SAD. Eight subjects received 100,000 I.U. of

vitamin D and seven subjects received phototherapy. At the onset of

treatment and after 1 month of therapy subjects were administered the

Hamilton Depression scale, the SIGH-SAD, and the SAD-8 depression scale.

All subjects also had serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-OH D)

measured before and 1 week after intervention therapy. All subjects

receiving vitamin D improved in all outcome measures. The phototherapy

group showed no significant change in depression scale measures. Vitamin

D status improved in both groups (74% vitamin D group, p < 0.005 and 36%

phototherapy group, p < 0.01). Improvement in 25-OH D was significantly

associated with improvement in depression scale scores (r2=0.26;

p=0.05). Vitamin D may be an important treatment for SAD. Further

studies will be necessary to confirm these findings.

[Deanna] For a baby, a CDC study found that sunlight exposure had more

influence on vitamin D stores than maternal stores, although both were

important. This panel discussion is big, filled with CDC-type

recommendations, but has a ton of information on babies needs, dietary,

UVB, and racial differences with vitamin D. It may be that eating more

fish and getting out in winter are both pretty important things to do.

Deanna

*http://tinyurl.com/7x2zj*

Conclusions

Both maternal vitamin D status and sunlight exposure affect the vitamin

D status of breastfed infants. Sunlight exposure appears to have the

greatest impact. Maternal vitamin D status appears to be more important

before infants are 8 weeks of age, possibly through placental transfer.

The contribution of vitamin D from maternal milk is insignificant

relative to the contribution from sunlight exposure.

....

Sun exposure and racial differences in vitamin D

A study by Matsuoka, et al. (1991) exposed 31 subjects to the equivalent

of less than 10 minutes of noonday sun. Because peak serum 25(OH)D3

occurs 24 hours after acute UVB exposure, serum levels were measured 24

hours later and compared with baseline measures. Subjects represented

four racial/ethnic groups: eight African Americans, eight Caucasian

Americans, seven South Asians, and eight East Asians. Basal serum levels

were similar in all groups. After UVB irradiation, significant racial

differences were apparent. The post-UVB serum 25(OH)D concentrations in

Caucasian Americans and East Asians were significantly higher than in

African Americans and South Asians. Intragroup serum 25(OH)D increases

were significant for all groups except African Americans.

....

Vitamin D is rare in foods. Ice cream, yogurt, and cheese do not have

vitamin D. Vitamin D-fortified milk should have 10 µg (400 IU) of

vitamin D per quart, but only about 29% of milk samples tested contain

between 8 and 12 µg (320 and 480 IU) of vitamin D per quart (Holick et

al. 1992). Approximately 21% of skim milk samples had undetectable

vitamin D (Holick et al. 1992). Vitamin D is also available in fatty

fish and fish liver oils. A rich source of vitamin D is salmon. If eaten

two or three times per week, it provides all the vitamin D a healthy

person needs.

....

UVB rays make vitamin D when skin is exposed to sunlight. However,

little vitamin D is made in the winter months, particularly at higher

latitudes. Sunscreen, if used correctly, reduces the UVB rays absorbed

by the skin. SPF 8 reduces vitamin D production by 97.5%; SPF 15 reduces

vitamin D production by 99%. Exposure of an individual's whole body to

one MED of sunlight is equivalent to ingesting about 250 µg (10,000 IU)

of vitamin D (Holick 1999). Therefore, exposure to 1 MED of sunlight is

17 to 50 times the recommended AI for vitamin D from dietary sources [5

to 15 µg (200 to 600 IU)] (IOM 1997). Therefore, for an older woman to

obtain the equivalent of 15 µg (600 IU) of vitamin D per day (AI for

women > 70 years of age), she would need to expose 6% of her body

surface to sunlight for 15 to 30 minutes two or three times a week. In

Britain, UVB lamps have been used as ambient lighting in nursing homes,

and residents have maintained their vitamin D concentrations all year

long. There have been reductions in fractures and depression in these

facilities as a result of the lights. The average Caucasian in Boston

needs to expose hands, face, and arms to 5 to 15 minutes of sunlight two

or three times per week in the summer, before applying sunscreen. The

average African American may need up to ten times as much sunlight as

Caucasians to produce the same amount of vitamin D (Clemens et al.

1982). Muslims who are covered from head to toe present a major problem

in terms of vitamin D synthesis. Their vitamin D production is almost 0,

and all will need vitamin D supplementation.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/2004 12:01:33 PM Central Standard Time,

writes:

Vitamin D is rare in foods. Ice cream, yogurt, and cheese do not have

vitamin D. Vitamin D-fortified milk should have 10 µg (400 IU) of

vitamin D per quart, but only about 29% of milk samples tested contain

between 8 and 12 µg (320 and 480 IU) of vitamin D per quart (Holick et

al. 1992). Approximately 21% of skim milk samples had undetectable

vitamin D (Holick et al. 1992). Vitamin D is also available in fatty

fish and fish liver oils. A rich source of vitamin D is salmon. If eaten

two or three times per week, it provides all the vitamin D a healthy

person needs.

thank yuo for the article deanna, interesting read...

i wondered in reading the above how much of a difference the health of the

cow makes...how do cows get vitamin D? i can't help but imagine that a healthy

grass fed cow that spends time outdoors and off drugs and hormones would have

a higher percentage than the white water we call milk from grocery stores.

makes a lot of sense that fish and fish oils are so high in vitamin D, they

are readily available in many northern areas.

in Christ,

stefanie

[Guest guest]

[Deanna] Light skinned Northern folks (Swedes, Norwegians, etc.) have

adapted over thousands of years to synthesize vitamin D from sun more

readily than darker skinned equatorial ethnic groups. So while it is

definitely a consideration to get more sources of this vitamin in the

diet in winter when we are indoors more, it is an individual

consideration. Dark skinned people living in the north have to worry

about it more, as rickets occurs to this particular group frequently.

Exactly which part of the light spectrum is responsible for preventing

S.A.D. or making vitamin D? I was under the impression that UV

amounts were largely similar on cloudy days as sunny days since

UV penetrates the cloud layer. Ever seen skiers with sunburns in

winter? Or is another part of spectrum responsible for the S.A.D.

and Vitamin D?

Perhaps its just that most folk prefer to stay indoors during winter.

Darrell

[Guest guest]

[] I have heard this my entire life... but yet I am 3/4 " light skinned

Northern Folks (Swedes, Norwegians, Danish), and I had problems every

winter living in Chicago. I added full spectrum lighting to my house,

and this helps.

[Darrell] Exactly which part of the light spectrum is responsible for

preventing

S.A.D. or making vitamin D?

[Deanna] Hey Darrell, read that WAPF article linked below about UV-B.

Catz, as a nature girl in the disinterested pursuit of knowledge on this

extremely important and timely topic, I have real questions about using

full spectrum lighting as a therapy for SAD or vitamin D deficiency.

Granted, many folks may not get enough sunlight this time of year. But

I think it falsely believing that you are somehow getting an adequate

substitute for sunlight might be very detrimental, especially if your

problems do stem from vitamin D deficiencies, which I do believe SAD is.

1) The biggest concern is that while the artificial light contains the

full spectrum of electromagnetic radiation as the sun, it does not even

begin to compare to the sun's intensity (power per unit area), even up

high in the winter (unless you are at the poles with no light.

2) Also, many people falsely believe that we are farther away from the

sun this time of year. While we are tilted away from it and the sun's

rays come to us at much smaller angles than other seasons, we actually

reach perihelion (point closest to the sun) in the beginning of January.

3) Don't most companies now block UV rays from both full and broad

spectrum lighting products? If they do, then you won't be synthesizing

any vitamin D from them.

4) Is diet a good enough substitute in winter for vitamin D? How could

those Arctic people survive otherwise.

What I am proposing that artificial light, no matter how it is packaged

and marketed, is no substitute for sunlight. So while it might be a

better artificial light than other sources, natural sunlight needs to be

enjoyed as much as possible, even in frigid winters. When I lived in

Siberia - I mean Minnesota - there were days when it was not reasonable

to go out AT ALL. But it really only takes 10-30 minutes 3 days a week

on average on 6% of the body to get good UV-B exposure depending on skin

tone (according to that CDC article in my last post). Like Heidi

mentioned, native mamas packed bambinos on their backs in frigid

weather. Did these people suffer SAD? I think Price concluded they

were loaded on vitamin D, so perhaps this problem can be solved

nutritionally.

http://www.westonaprice.org/nutrition_guidelines/nutrition_vitaminD.html

http://www.mercola.com/2002/apr/3/sun_prevents_cancer.htm

http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/sunlight.htm

In the spirit of finding answers,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

What Deanna said, only re: years of experience with reptiles. We had

to get them out in the sun, not just use full-spectrum lighting. It

was pure medicine for them. Repaired a lot prior damage--we were

running a rescue operation as well. Also diet, of course.

B.

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:06:49 -0600, Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

>

> [] I have heard this my entire life... but yet I am 3/4 " light skinned

> Northern Folks (Swedes, Norwegians, Danish), and I had problems every

> winter living in Chicago. I added full spectrum lighting to my house,

> and this helps.

>

> [Darrell] Exactly which part of the light spectrum is responsible for

> preventing

> S.A.D. or making vitamin D?

>

> [Deanna] Hey Darrell, read that WAPF article linked below about UV-B.

> Catz, as a nature girl in the disinterested pursuit of knowledge on this

> extremely important and timely topic, I have real questions about using

> full spectrum lighting as a therapy for SAD or vitamin D deficiency.

> Granted, many folks may not get enough sunlight this time of year. But

> I think it falsely believing that you are somehow getting an adequate

> substitute for sunlight might be very detrimental, especially if your

> problems do stem from vitamin D deficiencies, which I do believe SAD is.

>

> 1) The biggest concern is that while the artificial light contains the

> full spectrum of electromagnetic radiation as the sun, it does not even

> begin to compare to the sun's intensity (power per unit area), even up

> high in the winter (unless you are at the poles with no light.

>

> 2) Also, many people falsely believe that we are farther away from the

> sun this time of year. While we are tilted away from it and the sun's

> rays come to us at much smaller angles than other seasons, we actually

> reach perihelion (point closest to the sun) in the beginning of January.

>

> 3) Don't most companies now block UV rays from both full and broad

> spectrum lighting products? If they do, then you won't be synthesizing

> any vitamin D from them.

>

> 4) Is diet a good enough substitute in winter for vitamin D? How could

> those Arctic people survive otherwise.

>

> What I am proposing that artificial light, no matter how it is packaged

> and marketed, is no substitute for sunlight. So while it might be a

> better artificial light than other sources, natural sunlight needs to be

> enjoyed as much as possible, even in frigid winters. When I lived in

> Siberia - I mean Minnesota - there were days when it was not reasonable

> to go out AT ALL. But it really only takes 10-30 minutes 3 days a week

> on average on 6% of the body to get good UV-B exposure depending on skin

> tone (according to that CDC article in my last post). Like Heidi

> mentioned, native mamas packed bambinos on their backs in frigid

> weather. Did these people suffer SAD? I think Price concluded they

> were loaded on vitamin D, so perhaps this problem can be solved

> nutritionally.

>

> http://www.westonaprice.org/nutrition_guidelines/nutrition_vitaminD.html

> http://www.mercola.com/2002/apr/3/sun_prevents_cancer.htm

> http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/sunlight.htm

>

> In the spirit of finding answers,

> Deanna

>

>

[Guest guest]

[Deanna]

> From what I have read, SAD is caused by low vitamin D. Here is one

>study from the NCBI which showed Vitamin D supplement helped SAD,

>whereas phototherapy did nothing:

[HJ] I've also read that the light needs to be on your SKIN not your eyes,

as was previously supposed. Which leads credence to the Vit D thing.

It doesn't take all that much light though, to keep from getting SAD. When

I was in college, just walking back and forth to school was enough. I do

try to get some outside time daily, even in the winter. Shoot, skiers go

out on purpose in the snow and stay out there all day!

Heidi [HJ] [HTG]

" Cheer up....Things could get worse "

So I cheered up.....and sure enough, things got worse

[Guest guest]

Blazey wrote: What Deanna said, only re: years of experience with

reptiles. We had to get them out in the sun, not just use full-spectrum

lighting. It

was pure medicine for them. Repaired a lot prior damage--we were

running a rescue operation as well. Also diet, of course.

B.

-------------------

So, can we call you Gator Mama? Hee hee. Now curiosity has me

wondering what types of reptiles you rescue(d). And if I told my

younger son what you did (do?) he would be ALL over me to yield to some

reptilian housemates :-)

Deanna

PS. Sorry for my grammar boo boos. Been having bad PC day and wanted

to get it out one way or the other.