RE: Technological and Environmental Degeneration (was Digest Number 3681)

[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From:

>

> Light at 10^15 hz is more dangerous to humans probably than

> 60 hz. In the UK it is 50 hz for electricity.

Those numbers aren't comparable. They're measuring a different phenomenon.

Light is radiated energy, and the number 10^15 refers to the frequency of

the energy's wave motion. What comes out of your wall socket is an

electrical current, which means a stream of electrons. This is not radiated

energy--it's the movement of charged matter through a conducting medium.

However, the current isn't a constant flow; apparently it changes direction

and amplitude (hence " alternating current " ). The 60 Hz number is the

frequency with which the amplitude cycles. Similarly, when you get shocked,

that's electrical current, not radiation.

If I haven't explained that terribly well, it's because I don't understand

it terribly well. But I am sure that they're different.

> Cell phones run on microwave frequency. Period. They are

> just like a microwave oven, only a microwave oven's frequency

> is set to the resonant frequency of water molecules.

A much more important difference is that microwave ovens radiate energy with

over a thousand times more power (about half a watt for cell phones compared

to 500 watts for low-power microwave ovens). Also, note that visible light

has a much higher frequency, and that sunlight is significantly more intense

than the radiation from a cell phone. I don't know whether cellular phones

are safe, but superficial similarities to household appliances don't prove

that they aren't.

More details from The Straight Dope:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/movencellphones.html

[Guest guest]

Hi , good to read your words after a long time.

>>[Deanna] Light at 10^15 hz is more dangerous to humans probably than

>>60 hz. In the UK it is 50 hz for electricity.

>>

>>

>[] Those numbers aren't comparable. They're measuring a different

phenomenon. Light is radiated energy, and the number 10^15 refers to the

frequency of

>the energy's wave motion. What comes out of your wall socket is an

>electrical current, which means a stream of electrons. This is not radiated

>energy--it's the movement of charged matter through a conducting medium.

>However, the current isn't a constant flow; apparently it changes direction

>and amplitude (hence " alternating current " ). The 60 Hz number is the

>frequency with which the amplitude cycles. Similarly, when you get shocked,

>that's electrical current, not radiation.

>

>

[Deanna] Electromagnetic radiation includes the entire spectrum from

x-rays, and gamma rays, through visible light, all the way down to long

waves (which are what the power company sends to your wall socket if

your bill gets paid). They are *ALL* the same phenomenon -

electromagnetic radiation. It depends on the medium, but no matter what

the frequency, it propagates through space at the speed of light. If it

is through a wire, then it propagates through the wire much more readily

than through the air. But not all the power generated by the power

company makes it to your house. Some of it is lost. The wires have

resistance, capacitance and inductance; somehow, some of it ends up in

the ground before it gets to you. How does this happen? Radiation. If

you stood under the power lines, you could detect this lost radiated

energy. Also, it's not like electrical wires are free flowing electrons

like water through a pipe. It is more like electrical conduction, if

you will. It is not like a stream of electrons in the sense of a water

stream. Rather, it is like Bohr's model, or it could be considered like

a wave. But yes, it is the electrical current that kills in an

electrocution, not the voltage. In an arc welder, you do get more of

the water blasting effect, but I digress.

I think it all boils down to Maxwell's equations, which treat all

wavelengths of the emr spectrum as radiation. Period.

>>[Deanna] Cell phones run on microwave frequency. Period. They are

>>just like a microwave oven, only a microwave oven's frequency

>>is set to the resonant frequency of water molecules.

>>

>>

>[] A much more important difference is that microwave ovens radiate

energy with

>over a thousand times more power (about half a watt for cell phones compared

>to 500 watts for low-power microwave ovens). Also, note that visible light

>has a much higher frequency, and that sunlight is significantly more intense

>than the radiation from a cell phone. I don't know whether cellular phones

>are safe, but superficial similarities to household appliances don't prove

>that they aren't.

>

>More details from The Straight Dope:

>http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/movencellphones.html

>

>

>

Thanks for the link. Cell phones are known to cover the range of 800

MHz all the way up to 2.2 GHz. The microwave spectrum is 1-300 GHz, so

cell phones do generally fall in this range, especially the newer

models. Microwave ovens generally are at the 2.45 GHz frequency.

Regardless, all of this is a subset of RF. With the power differential

between ovens and cell phones, you may have a good argument, provided

that microwaves don't have the same no threshold of exposure threat that

ionizing radiation sources like x-rays do. Also, the additive effect

over time threat would have to be determined. However, it is not based

on the energy of the radiation to determine whether or not it affects

you. For instance, visible light hits the skin and bounces off and/or

is absorbed minimally. Not so for radio and microwave radiation, which

are much lower on the spectrum in terms of energy and wavelength than

light, yet pass right through your whole body.

The jury will be out for a long time on cell phone use and cancer and

other health concerns, as it takes a long time to associate these

things. As far as there being a superficial similarity between cell

phones and microwave ovens, the similarities are *not* superficial.

They are radiating the same energy. A microwave contains all of its

more powerful energy into the foods (unless it leaks through the door),

whereas cell phones radiate much less energy, but right into your body

at the side of your head. Not enough time has elapsed to know for sure,

but I won't be a part of the study, myself.

http://www.fda.gov/cellphones/qa.html#22

" Three large epidemiology studies have been published since December

2000. Between them, the studies investigated any possible association

between the use of wireless phones and primary brain cancer, glioma,

meningioma, or acoustic neuroma, tumors of the brain or salivary gland,

leukemia, or other cancers. None of the studies demonstrated the

existence of any harmful health effects from wireless phone RF

exposures. However, none of the studies can answer questions about

long-term exposures, since the average period of phone use in these

studies was around three years. "

Deanna