Re: Mastering Leptin

[Guest guest]

On 9/1/05, cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

>

> > So what?

>

> What's the question? don't know what you're asking here?

I'm addressing your initial suggestion (or reference to Shwarzbein's

suggestion) that seeking structural fats versus energy fats (actually

there is no such difference...) would lead to choosing less saturated

fat. Here was the initial context:

>> > Then it makes even less sense to me.

>> > The body's demand for structural

>> > fats is primarily saturated!

>> " structural fats " in that usage also include things like the lipid

>> layer in the brain needing omega 3s.

>So what?

So, my " so what " means, how does that relate to the initial suggestion

that seeking structural fats would lead to non-animal fats?

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

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[Guest guest]

> So I do not see why one would eat plant fats instead of animal fats

> for " structural " fats.

Ah, that's the leap I didn't see.

I think I wanted to say:

" of my animal fats, I like to avoid those from animals raised in

confinement on grains and legumes "

and what came out was, ???

" animal sat fats are inferior so plant fats must be preferred " ?

[Guest guest]

> So, my " so what " means, how does that relate to the initial suggestion

> that seeking structural fats would lead to non-animal fats?

" seeking structural " Wasn't meant to be anything more complicated than,

seeking fat from animals raised a certain way, where the fat profile

from wild salmon is different from that of beef blah blah blah. and

that right now, for me, I prefer not to have the supermarket ground

beef kind.

I don't get much non-animal fat. Don't use veg oil and don't like most

nuts and seeds, beyond a tablespoon for garnish. My fat comes from

meat, eggs, poultry, fish, butter, ghee, and mayo and lard when I can

make it. Love that stuff.

Connie

[Guest guest]

On 9/1/05, cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

> > So, my " so what " means, how does that relate to the initial suggestion

> > that seeking structural fats would lead to non-animal fats?

>

> " seeking structural " Wasn't meant to be anything more complicated than,

> seeking fat from animals raised a certain way, where the fat profile

> from wild salmon is different from that of beef blah blah blah. and

> that right now, for me, I prefer not to have the supermarket ground

> beef kind.

Ok, but the discussion originated from someones questioning of

Rosedale's opposition to saturated fat. So I may have misinterpreted

your comments, but it was because they were raised in this context, to

the extent that I did.

The fat profile of supermarket beef is basically deficient in omega

3s, excessive in total pufa, with more n-6 fats and less MUFA,

compared to grass-fed. I do not see what this has to do with " storage

fats " versus " structural fats " since the difference is not significant

with respect to saturated fats, which are the primary burning fats,

and also primary structural and storage fats. MUFAs and PUFAs, where

the tradeoff is, are both inferior burning fats and storage fats, and

have some structural utility and PUFAs have signaling utiltiy. But

the tradeoff does not involve any change at all in the balance between

structural versus storage fats.

And again, I object to the very idea of " structural " versus " storage "

fats. Storage fats are saturated. Burning fats are optimally

saturated. Structural fats are majority saturated (though all are

important). The main storage fat, palmitic, is also a primary

structural fat.

> I don't get much non-animal fat. Don't use veg oil and don't like most

> nuts and seeds, beyond a tablespoon for garnish. My fat comes from

> meat, eggs, poultry, fish, butter, ghee, and mayo and lard when I can

> make it. Love that stuff.

Yeah, lard rocks. I'm not accusing you of being a vegetable oil

consumer :-) But word on the street is Rosedale is anti-saturated

fat, so that's the context I was viewing your comments in. Apparently

you read Rosedale differently.

Either way, I don't understand the significance of Shwarzbein's

analogy, which doesn't seem to make sense based on the superficial

exposure I've had to it.

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

After following this discussion, I am still wondering

why Rosedale thinks saturated fat is a problem.

Chris---

If you are going to do a review of Rosedale's book, it

might be interesting to actually speak with him to

find out why he came to the conclusion he has on the

saturated fat issue. One would think that he has read

all of the info from Price, WAP; maybe the cholesterol

myths. I'm wondering why he came to a different

opinion. All of the Dr's that have written books are

well educated (at least I think they are). Why is

there such a consensus against saturated fats and

cholesterol being the major problem??? Maybe you

could tell Rosedale and other authors who feel the

same, about your new website. I wonder how open they

are to looking and possibly changing their views!

Atkins withstanding, as that is for weight loss and

I'm talking about health.

jafa

>

> I believe Rosedale's recommendation was to emphasize

> grass-fed, not

> avoid it. I think he just said avoid excess fat

> that was made from

> feeding animals corn and soy. I think.

>

> > In any case, I would think that a fat-burning diet

> would provide the

> > fats that are least stressful for the body to

> burn, which are

> > saturated fats. There's a reason that the body's

> synthetic pathway

> > produces palmitic acid, a saturated fat.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

On 9/2/05, jafa <jafasum@...> wrote:

>

> After following this discussion, I am still wondering

> why Rosedale thinks saturated fat is a problem.

>

> Chris---

>

> If you are going to do a review of Rosedale's book, it

> might be interesting to actually speak with him to

> find out why he came to the conclusion he has on the

> saturated fat issue. One would think that he has read

> all of the info from Price, WAP; maybe the cholesterol

> myths. I'm wondering why he came to a different

> opinion. All of the Dr's that have written books are

> well educated (at least I think they are). Why is

> there such a consensus against saturated fats and

> cholesterol being the major problem??? Maybe you

> could tell Rosedale and other authors who feel the

> same, about your new website. I wonder how open they

> are to looking and possibly changing their views!

I suppose I could, and it might be good to shoot him an email or

something, but I shouldn't need to, because his citations should be

provided in the book. If it isn't clear why he came to those

conclusions from the book, then there's something really wrong with

the book.

I don't know if there is really a " consensus " against saturated fat.

Barry Sears, for example, considers saturated fat a " neutral " fat. I

don't think it's fair to exclude Atkins, since his material was at

least partly health-oriented, and the opinion he expressed on

saturated fat was health-oriented. Dr. Al Sears, whose book focused

solely on heart-health, does not oppose saturated fat, whose book I

reviewed: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Doctors-Heart-Cure.html

I don't see anything to wonder about, because most people take the

government recommendations and those of the medical establishment as

if they are authoritative and based on science. I actually doubt that

most of these authors have read, say _The Cholesterol Myths_, but

maybe I'm wrong.

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply. After you read his book,

please write what you think of it here.

jafa

--- Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...>

wrote:

> On 9/2/05, jafa <jafasum@...> wrote:

> >

> > After following this discussion, I am still

> wondering

> > why Rosedale thinks saturated fat is a problem.

> >

> > Chris---

> >

> > If you are going to do a review of Rosedale's

> book, it

> > might be interesting to actually speak with him to

> > find out why he came to the conclusion he has on

> the

> > saturated fat issue. One would think that he has

> read

> > all of the info from Price, WAP; maybe the

> cholesterol

> > myths. I'm wondering why he came to a different

> > opinion. All of the Dr's that have written books

> are

> > well educated (at least I think they are). Why is

> > there such a consensus against saturated fats and

> > cholesterol being the major problem??? Maybe you

> > could tell Rosedale and other authors who feel the

> > same, about your new website. I wonder how open

> they

> > are to looking and possibly changing their views!

>

> I suppose I could, and it might be good to shoot him

> an email or

> something, but I shouldn't need to, because his

> citations should be

> provided in the book. If it isn't clear why he came

> to those

> conclusions from the book, then there's something

> really wrong with

> the book.

>

> I don't know if there is really a " consensus "

> against saturated fat.

> Barry Sears, for example, considers saturated fat a

> " neutral " fat. I

> don't think it's fair to exclude Atkins, since his

> material was at

> least partly health-oriented, and the opinion he

> expressed on

> saturated fat was health-oriented. Dr. Al Sears,

> whose book focused

> solely on heart-health, does not oppose saturated

> fat, whose book I

> reviewed:

>

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Doctors-Heart-Cure.html

> I don't see anything to wonder about, because most

> people take the

> government recommendations and those of the medical

> establishment as

> if they are authoritative and based on science. I

> actually doubt that

> most of these authors have read, say _The

> Cholesterol Myths_, but

> maybe I'm wrong.

>

> Chris

> --

> Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

> Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

> http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

>

____________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

,

I can't find your answer to Chris's question. Could

you please answer it again. The question is at the

bottom of Chris's letter.

Thanks,

jafa

--- Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...>

wrote:

> ,

>

> On Amazon there are two _Mastering Leptin_ books by

> Byron s

> with different subtitles. One is " The Leptin Diet,

> Solving Obesity

> and Preventing Disease, Second Edition " and the

> other is " Mastering

> Leptin: The Key to Energetic Vitality, Youthful

> Hormonal Balance,

> Optimum Body Weight, and Disease Prevention. "

>

> Both are titled _Mastering Leptin_ as the primary

> title, but the

> latter is written by " Byron s et al " whereas

> the former is only

> written by s. The latter doesn't list an

> edition number, so it

> would appear that they are not simply two editions

> of the same book.

>

> Are they different? Which do you have? Which do

> you recommend?

>

> Chris

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

On 9/5/05, jafa <jafasum@...> wrote:

> I can't find your answer to Chris's question. Could

> you please answer it again. The question is at the

> bottom of Chris's letter.

Jafa,

Life would be much easier with a gmail account:

>Are they different? Which do you have? Which do you recommend?

They're different editions of the same book. You want the second edition,

dated May 2004. I think he proudly credits his wife for the awful English

in both versions.

-

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com