Re: FYI: Surviving The Witch - Step 1

[Guest guest]

Edith,

You are clearly the most wonderous moderator! Here I am waiting for Borders

to tell me my copy of UBM is in, and you are providing me with useful tidbits

to hold me over. Thank you.

Hugs,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

You could go to Booksamillion.com also.

[Guest guest]

Debbie wrote:

<<

You are clearly the most wonderous moderator! Here I am waiting for

Borders

to tell me my copy of UBM is in, and you are providing me with useful

tidbits

to hold me over. Thank you.

>>

You're welcome, Debbie.

<curtseying>

- Edith

Most Wonderous Moderator / WTO Lists

<giggle>

..

[Guest guest]

Edith,

That's AWESOME! Thanks so much for posting this. I really, really

want to get this book. I went looking for it last night and couldn't

find it anywhere. I don't like Amazon, they did me dirty at Christmas

and so I'm trying to find another source. Do you know of any other

places I get it?

Kere

> The following excerpt is " Step 1 " in Chapter 9, pgs 282-4, of

> Ann Lawson's book, Understanding The Borderline Mother. "

>

> _______________

>

> Step 1 (of 3): Confirm Separateness: Create Distance

>

> The Witch's adult children need to create distance in three separate

> realms of their being: spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

Adult

> children can create spiritual distance by affirming their own

goodness.

> Children of borderline Witches must think of their future, of the

> long-term consequences of acting on retaliatory impulses. They must,

> therefore, stand in the light of their own basic goodness, displayng

> strength and character by doing no harm.

>

> Helene Deutsch (in Sayers 1991) struggled to manage her hatred

toward

> her own mother: " 'She was a mean woman, and I did not want to be

like

> her . . .' she felt her mother regarded her as 'poison' " (p. 25). In

the

> effort to create spiritual distance from her mother, Helene named

her

> country home in New Hampshire, " Babayaga, " the Polish word for " Good

> Witch. "

>

> Creating physical distance sends the clear message " I am separate. "

> Power lies in what the Witch's adult children do, not in what they

say.

> " I am " statements are likely to be ridiculed by the Witch or used to

> provoke the child. Being different from the Witch, being separate,

means

> not internalizing her rage, hatred, vindictiveness, and need for

> retaliation. Separateness requires the ability to walk away, or to

ask

> the Witch to leave.

>

> Picture the scene from The Wizard of Oz when the Good Witch of the

North

> envelops Dorothy in her arms as the Wicked Witch of the West

brandishes

> her broom, threatening to take the ruby slippers. The Good Witch

laughs

> and says to the Wicked Witch, " Be gone . . . you have no power

here! "

> The Good Witch has confidence in her goodness and power. She is not

> afraid, she believes in herself. Adult children have this power, but

> like Dorothy with the ruby slippers, they do not know how to use it.

>

> The single greatest power adult children possess is their ability to

get

> away. Talking about the source of the danger does not make it go

away.

> Saying " I will not tolerate being treated this way, " and failing to

> leave demonstrates ambivalence, which can be deadly. DeBecker (1997)

> stresses: " 'No' is a word that must never be negotiated, because the

> person who chooses not to hear it is trying to control you . . .

> Declining to hear 'no' is a signal that someone is either seeking

> control or refusing to relinquish it . . . If you let someone talk

you

> out of the word 'no,' you might as well wear a sign that reads, 'You

are

> in charge' " (p. 73). When one feels endangered, distancing is not

> negotiable.

>

> Adult children can create emotional distance by not confiding in the

> Witch. No one should trust a Witch. The Witch uses the words of

others

> in order to beguile and control. <snip> The Witch's children

> instinctively know not to reveal their true selves, their desires,

> feelings, or opinions to their mother.

>

> Many adult female children create emotional distance by avoiding

being

> like the Witch in any way. They despise those parts of themselves

that

> remind them of her. They may undergo cosmetic surgery to change

physical

> features that remind them of their mother, and may avoid becoming a

> mother at all. The word " mother " may mean " witch " to the Witch's

> children.

>

> _______________

>

> Step 2 is Create Structure: Zero Tolerance (pgs 284-286), and

> Step 3 is Clarify Consequences: With Actions, Not Words (pgs

286-290)

>

> And that chapter ends with the following:

>

> " Pain that is expressed, heard, and believed is not experienced in

vain.

> Pain that is heard can then be tolerated and healed.

> " The Witch's children grow up. They learn to speak; they remember

the

> truth. Some may remain silent forever, protecting themselves from

the

> unendurable horror of telling the truth that no one believes. Those

who

> speak find that very few people are prepared to hear what they have

to

> say. "

>

>

> And now we return to our regularly scheduled programming.

>

> Hugs,

> - Edith

> Moderator / WTO NonBP Lists

>

> .

[Guest guest]

Hi Edith,

These little tid bits popping up every once in a while sure is

helpful, while one person is waiting for a store to send her UBM

book, another (me) has loaned her book out and I feel lost!! LOL

I really have to get that book back.

Also, like your mother, mine was a queen/witch with NPD and HPD -

hateful, controlling, better than thou and threw around her sexual

antics....geez. I don't even have the energy to do what these

people do to control others!!!!

Have heard maybe some " good " news!!! The noam MAY be moving to San

Diego, CA - and I'll still be here in CO...LOL WOO HOO!!! I just

hope she takes the niece, her child and the APD half-brother with

her!! I suppose that is asking too much from the universe now? I

am doing well hanging out in my own home right now, writing to you

while both of my daughters, niece, the uncle visiting from IN are

all at noam's splashing around in the lake!!! Of course the (what

ever this is in me) looks outside and is thinking it is getting

dark, they should not be in the lake when it is dark, no lights

etc.!! My kids are 18 & 20 - HOWEVER, I kept those thoughts to

myself, telling only you and wishing them safety. OL noam is

enjoying herself getting all the grandkids around her....they

usually wouldn't be going over there, but they want to visit the

uncle from IN!!! I am breathing deeply, smiling to myself and not

caring that I am not in the middle of the hoopla and having to be

phony and excited to be at her house!!!

Hugs -

[Guest guest]

Hi Kere,

Lots of KOs like to buy their books at www.half.com so I tried there but

they're sold out.

Then I tried eBay but they don't have any copies either.

Next, I went directly to the publisher at:

http://www.aronson.com/

<press Psychotherapy Books>

and brought back the following info:

<<

Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the

Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship (sc)

By: Ann Lawson

Addressing the adult children of borderlines and the therapists who work

with them, Dr. Lawson shows how to care for the waif without rescuing

her, to attend to the hermit without feeding her fear, to love the queen

without becoming her subject, and to live with the witch without

becoming her victim.

Order code: 02886

ISBN: 0-7657-0331-9

Page count: 352 pages

Size: 6.00 x 9.00

Immediate Shipment

Publisher's Price: $40.00

YOUR INTERNET PRICE: $35.95

>>

And, they have a shopping cart. So if you have a credit card, walla!!

(They're in NJ)

Cheers,

- Edith

Moderator / WTO NonBP Lists

[Guest guest]

wrote:

<<

These little tid bits popping up every once in a while sure is helpful,

while one person is waiting for a store to send her UBM book, another

(me) has loaned her book out and I feel lost!! LOL

I really have to get that book back.

>>

I've worn out two SWOEs already and my UBM is all underlined. The more I

re-read, the more I keep re-freshing what I've learned.

<<

Also, like your mother, mine was a queen/witch with NPD and HPD -

hateful, controlling, better than thou and threw around her sexual

antics....geez. I don't even have the energy to do what these people do

to control others!!!!

>>

If we KOs had all lived together growing up, with no nada around, I'm

sure we could have done a much better job of parenting than our

make-believe 'mother' did.

<<

Have heard maybe some " good " news!!! The noam MAY be moving to San

Diego, CA - and I'll still be here in CO...LOL WOO HOO!!! I just hope

she takes the niece, her child and the APD half-brother with her!! I

suppose that is asking too much from the universe now?

>>

We'll keep the fingers crossed that you'll have your wish come true.

<<

I am doing well hanging out in my own home right now, writing to you

while both of my daughters, niece, the uncle visiting from IN are all at

noam's splashing around in the lake!!!

>>

Excellent. If you're like me, I really enjoy the quietitude of my Home

Sweet Home.

<<

Of course the (what ever this is in me) looks outside and is thinking it

is getting dark, they should not be in the lake when it is dark, no

lights etc.!!

>>

I think I detect some hypervigilance there. Having had a nada, lots of

KOs pump adrenalin like crazy - always prepared for some Gawd-awful

thing to happen.

<<

My kids are 18 & 20 - HOWEVER, I kept those thoughts to myself, telling

only you and wishing them safety.

>>

That's it. Its part of the process of re-writing the 'scripts' in our

heads. My nada lived rent-free in my head for 12 years after she died!

<<

OL noam is enjoying herself getting all the grandkids around her....they

usually wouldn't be going over there, but they want to visit the uncle

from IN!!! I am breathing deeply, smiling to myself and not caring that

I am not in the middle of the hoopla and having to be phony and excited

to be at her house!!!

>>

Nadas are actresses and they assign roles for their KOs to play. But, we

don't always fit the assigned role and thus we KOs got all bent out of

shape. And that's why we ended up here. You're doin' real good and, like

Kathleen, you're starting to have color in your cheeks now. You're

starting to find that exuberance that you got robbed of so long ago.

<singing lustily>

What a difference a day/week/month/year makes,

La de dah dah de dah dahhhhh....

Hugs & Cheers - & All,

- Edith

Moderator / WTO NonBP Lists

[Guest guest]

Edith,

You're such a doll. Thank you so much for the URL you attached.

That was very kind hearted of you to look at all those different

websites for availability on my behalf. I really appreciate it. I'm

going to go there and order it right after signing off here. I'm so

excited! Thanks again,

Kere

> Hi Kere,

>

> Lots of KOs like to buy their books at www.half.com so I tried there

but

> they're sold out.

>

> Then I tried eBay but they don't have any copies either.

>

> Next, I went directly to the publisher at:

>

> http://www.aronson.com/

> <press Psychotherapy Books>

>

> and brought back the following info:

>

> <<

> Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend

the

> Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship (sc)

>

> By: Ann Lawson

>

> Addressing the adult children of borderlines and the therapists who

work

> with them, Dr. Lawson shows how to care for the waif without

rescuing

> her, to attend to the hermit without feeding her fear, to love the

queen

> without becoming her subject, and to live with the witch without

> becoming her victim.

>

> Order code: 02886

> ISBN: 0-7657-0331-9

> Page count: 352 pages

> Size: 6.00 x 9.00

> Immediate Shipment

> Publisher's Price: $40.00

> YOUR INTERNET PRICE: $35.95

> >>

>

> And, they have a shopping cart. So if you have a credit card,

walla!!

> (They're in NJ)

>

> Cheers,

>

> - Edith

> Moderator / WTO NonBP Lists

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I'll check them out too. I forgot all about them, but use to

shop at those all the time when I lived in Florida. Texas doesn't

seem to have any that I've seen thus far.

K

> You could go to Booksamillion.com also.

>

>

>