Re: Our Ancestors Ate as Chimps Do Now

[Guest guest]

Wanita-

>WASHINGTON-Low-carb proponents say their diet is healthier because it's

>close to what our early ancestors ate. Vegetarians make similar claims.

>Neither is entirely right, according to current science.

>

> " The common ancestor of all hominids was probably eating the same as

>modern chimps, " says renowned paleoanthropologist Bernard Wood.

>

>And that means lots of fruit year-round (heavy on the wild figs) and

>averaging about 65 grams of meat a day, mostly from pigs and monkeys.

Hey, if we should eat like the common ancestor of all hominids, maybe we

should eat like the common ancestor of all mammals, or the common ancestor

of all life. I don't know why I'm ever surprised by idiotic journalism.

-

[Guest guest]

,

Hey, if we should eat like the common ancestor of all hominids, maybe

we should eat like the common ancestor of all mammals, or the common

ancestor of all life. I don't know why I'm ever surprised by idiotic

journalism.

****************

So you're saying that in the millions of years that have passed since

the human lineage separated from the chimp lineage that we may have

*possibly* evolved different nutrition requirements?

Vivian

[Guest guest]

Vivian-

>So you're saying that in the millions of years that have passed since

>the human lineage separated from the chimp lineage that we may have

>*possibly* evolved different nutrition requirements?

Well, I don't know, that's an extremely strong statement... but what the

heck, I'll go way out on a limb: yes! <g>

-

[Guest guest]

> Hey, if we should eat like the common ancestor of all hominids, maybe we

> should eat like the common ancestor of all mammals, or the common ancestor

> of all life. I don't know why I'm ever surprised by idiotic journalism.

>

> -

Feather in the cap maybe for fruitarians. My take, too. No recognition of

biochemical individuality, foods of different ecosystems, gene, ancestry

differentiation, yadda, yadda.

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

Wanita Sears wrote:

>Sink your teeth into dietary evolution: Our ancestors ate as chimps do now

>Cooking, cutting changed dentition

>http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article

>_Type1 & call_pageid=971358637177 & c=Article & cid=1109848148411

>

>PETER CALAMAI

>SCIENCE WRITER

>

>WASHINGTON-Low-carb proponents say their diet is healthier because it's

>close to what our early ancestors ate. Vegetarians make similar claims.

>Neither is entirely right, according to current science.

>

> " The common ancestor of all hominids was probably eating the same as

>modern chimps, " says renowned paleoanthropologist Bernard Wood.

>

>And that means lots of fruit year-round (heavy on the wild figs) and

>averaging about 65 grams of meat a day, mostly from pigs and monkeys.

>

What plant fruits year round? Can an animal in a certain location eat

fruit year round? It seems to me that fruits fruit in summer

generally. If it is not possible to grow and eat fruit in one region,

then these ideas have a modern " fruit shipped over the globe, " " let them

eat fruit " bend on what is really happening with these animals. But I

could be wrong. Plants and animals have evolved much since

Australopithecines.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>What plant fruits year round? Can an animal in a certain location eat

>fruit year round? It seems to me that fruits fruit in summer

>generally. If it is not possible to grow and eat fruit in one region,

>then these ideas have a modern " fruit shipped over the globe, " " let them

>eat fruit " bend on what is really happening with these animals. But I

>could be wrong. Plants and animals have evolved much since

>Australopithecines.

>

>Deanna

Actually in Africa there are monkeys that live off fruit (and leaves)

year round. They do rotate between types of plants, and forage

over large areas. Certain birds (like toucans) live off fruit year round

too. Someone pointed out that humans seem to have evolved in

the tropics, so it would make sense that we'd have been eating

a fair bit of fruit (and roots too, as the article pointed out). Eating

fruits and roots is NOT a recent thing, though some of the low carb

folks like to say it is. Those tropical fruits have lots of sugar too,

and the roots have lots of starch.

Also, in the tropics, the " seasons " don't work like they do in the higher

latitudes. So while it's true that in, say, Europe, fruit wasn't available in

the winter, that's not true in Ecuador. Seems like coconuts and dates

are available year-round too.

Of course you also have those Paleo guys following the herds

around, and they were quite healthy. And there has been some

bone evidence that shows healthy folks way back when on a rather

high-meat diet.

Actually that article pointed out that humans seem to have evolved

to eat a rather wide variety of stuff, which certainly fits with what

Price and Cordain and others have said. I liked what they had to say

about chimps being more adapted to meat (they hoard it, apes ignore it)

... the Paleo folks were even more adapted to meat, I'd guess.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> What plant fruits year round? Can an animal in a certain location eat

> fruit year round? It seems to me that fruits fruit in summer

> generally. If it is not possible to grow and eat fruit in one region,

> then these ideas have a modern " fruit shipped over the globe, " " let them

> eat fruit " bend on what is really happening with these animals. But I

> could be wrong. Plants and animals have evolved much since

> Australopithecines.

>

>

> Deanna

Have heard that even at the equator there is a winter time of less fruiting

which is our summer time. Nicaraguans were in the streets protesting this

week about KAFTA free trade. Pet peeve of mine with vegetarians in the north

in winter is the transportation costs to the planet of imported southern

hemisphere foods. All the native fruits here are much lower in fructose than

the hybrids.

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

> Actually that article pointed out that humans seem to have evolved

> to eat a rather wide variety of stuff, which certainly fits with what

> Price and Cordain and others have said. I liked what they had to say

> about chimps being more adapted to meat (they hoard it, apes ignore it)

> ... the Paleo folks were even more adapted to meat, I'd guess.

>

>

> Heidi Jean

Did find the chimps ate twice the protein they thought they ate, too.

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

> Well, I don't know, that's an extremely strong statement... but what the

> heck, I'll go way out on a limb: yes! <g>

>

>

> -

Guess this Chinese astrology monkey should join you. When I started writing

this earlier, then got taken away, 's Shock the Monkey came on

the radio.

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

>Also, in the tropics, the " seasons " don't work like they do in the higher

>latitudes. So while it's true that in, say, Europe, fruit wasn't available in

>the winter, that's not true in Ecuador. Seems like coconuts and dates

>are available year-round too.

>

Ah, I see. Coconuts are a nut though, aren't they? It is interesting

that fruit doesn't seem to affect blood sugar like processed grains and

stuff. Also, I have read that eating dates does not promote tooth

decay, even though they are so sweet. My people are arctic Europeans,

so I stick with plums, berries, melons and peaches that come off my

land. I also eat some apple, citrus and other goodies from the farm

market, but not more than one a day max. Sweet cravings result for me

with too much.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>Have heard that even at the equator there is a winter time of less fruiting

>which is our summer time. Nicaraguans were in the streets protesting this

>week about KAFTA free trade. Pet peeve of mine with vegetarians in the north

>in winter is the transportation costs to the planet of imported southern

>hemisphere foods. All the native fruits here are much lower in fructose than

>the hybrids.

>

>Wanita

>

I have raw food vegan friends in the north and I always ask them how

could they do it without modern transport. I don't think they could.

With oil production peaking soon, the cost of eating shipped in produce

will just be too high for most people.

I like the WAPF for their local food focus. I'm getting more active in

growing my own. Right now we are getting chicken-friendly for the nine

chicks we'll be taking over soon. Many vegetables, fruits and nuts do

really well here. Arugula is taking over all over the place after one

planting 3 years ago. My goal is to stop shopping at any regular style

grocery store, save for little side items once a month.

Conserve.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Wanita-

>Pet peeve of mine with vegetarians in the north

>in winter is the transportation costs to the planet of imported southern

>hemisphere foods.

That's annoying, but try asking vegetarians what they think about the vast

toll in animal lives their diet causes. They'll look at you like you're

nuts, because most vegetarians like to think that they're eating in an

animal-friendly no-death way, but grain-harvesting machinery apparently

kills vast numbers of smaller animals. So we who eat grass-fed meat are

actually the most humane when you think about it. <g>

-

[Guest guest]

> Re: Our Ancestors Ate as Chimps Do Now

>

>

>

>Wanita-

>

>>Pet peeve of mine with vegetarians in the north

>>in winter is the transportation costs to the planet of imported southern

>>hemisphere foods.

>

>That's annoying, but try asking vegetarians what they think about the vast

>toll in animal lives their diet causes. They'll look at you like you're

>nuts, because most vegetarians like to think that they're eating in an

>animal-friendly no-death way, but grain-harvesting machinery apparently

>kills vast numbers of smaller animals. So we who eat grass-fed meat are

>actually the most humane when you think about it. <g>

>

>

>

>

>-

>

>

I just want to point out that only effectively applies to vegetarians who

eat agri-biz produce/grains. Some vegans/veggies grow most of their own

produce, or buy from small local farms, in which case they wouldn't be

contributing to a massive animal death toll.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>I just want to point out that only effectively applies to vegetarians who

>eat agri-biz produce/grains. Some vegans/veggies grow most of their own

>produce, or buy from small local farms, in which case they wouldn't be

>contributing to a massive animal death toll.

Yeah, that's true, but I'm guessing that they're a small minority of

vegetarians/vegans. Probably especially vegans, because where else are

vegans going to get enough calories?

-

[Guest guest]

> RE: Our Ancestors Ate as Chimps Do Now

>

>

>

>Suze-

>

>>I just want to point out that only effectively applies to vegetarians who

>>eat agri-biz produce/grains. Some vegans/veggies grow most of their own

>>produce, or buy from small local farms, in which case they wouldn't be

>>contributing to a massive animal death toll.

>

>Yeah, that's true, but I'm guessing that they're a small minority of

>vegetarians/vegans. Probably especially vegans, because where else are

>vegans going to get enough calories?

>

Oh, I agree. But the same argument can be used against meat eaters - most

eat factory farmed meat that is fed agri-biz grains. Those of us who consume

strictly grass-fed animals are a small minority. And most of us probably eat

chickens which are all fed grains (with VERY few exceptions). Those grains

are typically not from small family farms, AFAIK. So those vegans eating

from small local farms and those of *us* eating from small local farms are

both in the minority. IOW, the arguments against meat eating that THEY use

and the arguments against vegan diets that WE use when it comes to harming

animals or the environment both share similar weaknesses. Both diets CAN Be

done without involving agri-biz, although I grant you it's harder for

vegans.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> That's annoying, but try asking vegetarians what they think about the vast

> toll in animal lives their diet causes. They'll look at you like you're

> nuts, because most vegetarians like to think that they're eating in an

> animal-friendly no-death way, but grain-harvesting machinery apparently

> kills vast numbers of smaller animals. So we who eat grass-fed meat are

> actually the most humane when you think about it. <g>

>

> -

Sure are! There'd even be a bone to contend on with them on the complaint of

methane pollution, the passing of gas. Grass fed would pass less if any gas

on a natural grass, no grain diet. Won't even get really going on the

hierarchy of life forms. That somehow blood is different than chlorophyll.

Dead is no longer alive, no matter what it is.

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

Suze-

>But the same argument can be used against meat eaters - most

>eat factory farmed meat that is fed agri-biz grains. Those of us who consume

>strictly grass-fed animals are a small minority. And most of us probably eat

>chickens which are all fed grains (with VERY few exceptions). Those grains

>are typically not from small family farms, AFAIK. So those vegans eating

>from small local farms and those of *us* eating from small local farms are

>both in the minority. IOW, the arguments against meat eating that THEY use

>and the arguments against vegan diets that WE use when it comes to harming

>animals or the environment both share similar weaknesses. Both diets CAN Be

>done without involving agri-biz, although I grant you it's harder for

>vegans.

Is there any such thing nowadays as non-mechanized harvesting of grains? I

mean, do vegetarians of any stripe have any source of grains that doesn't

involve harvesters?

At any rate, if everyone became vegetarian, I think it would be effectively

impossible (without radical population reduction) for people to avoid

harvesters, whereas grass-fed meat production could exploit a lot of

otherwise unused land, though it too would (and will) doubtless require

some population reduction. And more to the point, vegetarianism is unhealthy.

-