Re: Abcess (or something) on Upper Gum

March 12, 2005

I have cured many infections of the teeth and gums w/ homeopathy only. I use

Pyrogenium 30c and hepar sulph 30x........also heka lava 6x helps w/ pain

and removing swelling. The hepar can be used in an acute situation every 15

minutes if necessary, I usually recommend the Pyrogenium 2 to 3 times a day.

With a gum or tooth infection, i also up my coconut oil, and take curcumin to

reduce swelling, and sometimes also take some olive leaf caps. Hope this helps

your mother, my Father just went through something similar and never took the

antibiotics that the dentist gave him.

Rhonda

March 12, 2005

The area that is swollen...is this where the root canaled teeth are located?

Does the swelling ever go down and then come back?

Is the teeth around the area of swelling sensitive to cold or hot or both?

Did she lose the teeth through root canals? If not, what are they

filled with. The safest product on the market in Biocalex...of course

the jury is still out on the whole root canal issue.

vsp

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 16:45:47 -0500, Masterjohn

<chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

>

> My mom's upper left gum is swollen pretty badly. Oddly, the swelling

> is protruding from the upper portion of the gum rather than the

> portion adjascent to the teeth.

>

> I guess my mom was having shooting pains recently on that side for a

> month until it went numb, but still sensitive to touch. Now she just

> realized she had this swelling, which hurts a lot of touched. She

> also broke a piece off one of the teeth in this region as well.

>

> Some background. My mom has caps on almost all her teeth. Her

> childhood dentist was an alcoholic and always had her on Saturdays

> after he got terribly sloshed on Friday nights, and he did reckless

> damage to her teeth that it cost something like, iirc, $12,000 to fix,

> which she sued him for, and won partial damages. (!)

>

> She's gotten root canals a couple years ago in many of the teeth. She

> also has a lot of bone loss, which is worst in the area that currently

> has the swelling.

>

> She's wondering why the swelling is on the upper portion, which she's

> never had before. It seems obvious to me: her damage is so bad that

> the infection has embedded itself that far into the bone.

>

> Does anyone have anything to add?

>

> Unfortunately, she's had no dental insurance for a long time, nor any

> saved money. Her current job is reluctant about signing her on

> full-time and giving her benefits because they aren't sure whether the

> newly created position is going to stay or not. I think she may have

> to get most of her teeth taken out and laser surgery might be the only

> option for saving her teeth, but I have no idea if any insurances will

> cover the costs, which I imagine are astronomical.

>

> At the moment, I think she needs to see a dentist who's familiar with

> Price's work as immediately as possible, and needs to save up for a

> consultation if she isn't getting insurance, so she can at least get

> looked at.

>

> But again, if anyone can add anything, it would be appreciated.

>

> Chris

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March 12, 2005

At 04:45 PM 3/12/05 -0500, you wrote:

>

>My mom's upper left gum is swollen pretty badly. Oddly, the swelling

>is protruding from the upper portion of the gum rather than the

>portion adjascent to the teeth.

>

>I guess my mom was having shooting pains recently on that side for a

>month until it went numb, but still sensitive to touch. Now she just

>realized she had this swelling, which hurts a lot of touched. She

>also broke a piece off one of the teeth in this region as well.

>

>Some background. My mom has caps on almost all her teeth. Her

>childhood dentist was an alcoholic and always had her on Saturdays

>after he got terribly sloshed on Friday nights, and he did reckless

>damage to her teeth that it cost something like, iirc, $12,000 to fix,

>which she sued him for, and won partial damages. (!)

>

>She's gotten root canals a couple years ago in many of the teeth. She

>also has a lot of bone loss, which is worst in the area that currently

>has the swelling.

>

>She's wondering why the swelling is on the upper portion, which she's

>never had before. It seems obvious to me: her damage is so bad that

>the infection has embedded itself that far into the bone.

>

>Does anyone have anything to add?

I don't have anything to add except that you may have it pegged. It may

seem anomalous (sp?) that it's on the upper portion of the gum, but I used

to have the same thing - caused by massive infection that was, in fact,

eating into the bone.

If you intend to try to save her teeth, you need to do something *now* ...

based on my own experience, the infection has to be dealt with immediately

- conventional medicine DOES have its uses, and that's one of them. Deal

with the immediate problem however you have to (up to and including

short-term antibiotics if it seems warranted). Then use the nutritional

approaches for healing, restoration, and preventing recurrence.

But really - if she's got those swellings, don't screw with it. I wish

I hadn't.

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

March 12, 2005

> If you intend to try to save her teeth, you need to do something *now* ...

> based on my own experience, the infection has to be dealt with immediately

> - conventional medicine DOES have its uses, and that's one of them. Deal

> with the immediate problem however you have to (up to and including

> short-term antibiotics if it seems warranted). Then use the nutritional

> approaches for healing, restoration, and preventing recurrence.

I understand that. It's just that she can't afford to go to any

dentist. If she doesn't get insurance, she needs to just drastically

cut her spending and save the cash as it's an emergency, I guess.

But I don't see the issue as " conventional " versus " nutritional. " I

simply don't see the conventional approach as being able to solve the

problem at all. How are antibiotics going to help, except to stave

off the infection in an immediate case? It seems probably that she

needs to have her teeth and a significant portion of her bone removed,

and the only dentists I'd feel comfortable doing any of this are

dentists that understand the importance of following Price's procedure

for removing teeth. That said, if there's any possibility of saving

the teeth it has to be done. Again, only dentists that are familiar

with Price and holistic dentistry have a shot here.

I don't mean she needs to see a holistic dentist for dietary advice.

I mean she needs to see one for *surgery*.

But yes, I agree that it's an immediate problem. Thank you.

Chris

March 12, 2005

>Does anyone have anything to add?

>

>Unfortunately, she's had no dental insurance for a long time, nor any

>saved money. Her current job is reluctant about signing her on

>full-time and giving her benefits because they aren't sure whether the

>newly created position is going to stay or not. I think she may have

>to get most of her teeth taken out and laser surgery might be the only

>option for saving her teeth, but I have no idea if any insurances will

>cover the costs, which I imagine are astronomical.

>

>At the moment, I think she needs to see a dentist who's familiar with

>Price's work as immediately as possible, and needs to save up for a

>consultation if she isn't getting insurance, so she can at least get

>looked at.

>

>But again, if anyone can add anything, it would be appreciated.

>

>Chris

>

I would look for a biological dentist who will work with payment plans.

Many will because most mainstream plans won't cover their work (cuz they

are not in the good ol' dentist network) - at least that is my

experience here of dental plan and location. IMO dental plans are

worthless for WAP folk. She should, as said, get that tooth looked

at immediately. And if you can't find or afford a biological dentist,

then go to someone who will respect your views on dental health. Go

with her to the appointment if you can to be sure that she has an

advocate for the least invasive and toxic options. If she is reeling in

pain, someone should assist her with decisions at the time, as she might

not be able to do so on her own.

And why is it that these sort of emergencies always happen on weekends?

Deanna

March 12, 2005

I recently had a bad gum infection (swollen and inflamed) and I used clay

both on the outside of my cheek and the inside, on the gum, to draw out the

toxins. The clay on the I used on the gum was terramin, rubbed in, and on

my skin a combination of terramin and French green clay, as a masque.

Before going to bed at night I also rubbed the terramin down into the gum,

around the roots of the tooth (kind of gritty, but okay if you're going to

go to sleep.) It was all I needed, and it was only a couple of days or so

before I was okay, but of course your mom's case may be more serious or take

a longer time to heal. It can't hurt, though, if you want to try something

cheap and safe before going to antibiotics.

March 12, 2005

At 05:39 PM 3/12/05 -0600, you wrote:

>I would look for a biological dentist who will work with payment plans.

>Many will because most mainstream plans won't cover their work (cuz they

>are not in the good ol' dentist network) - at least that is my

>experience here of dental plan and location. IMO dental plans are

>worthless for WAP folk. She should, as said, get that tooth looked

>at immediately. And if you can't find or afford a biological dentist,

>then go to someone who will respect your views on dental health. Go

>with her to the appointment if you can to be sure that she has an

>advocate for the least invasive and toxic options. If she is reeling in

>pain, someone should assist her with decisions at the time, as she might

>not be able to do so on her own.

In line with that, let me be more explicit.

I went to a conventional dentist. They diagnosed the problem and gave me

a " treatment plan " , which including the drugs they wanted to give me

before, during and after the surgery that I so obviously required.

I took the " treatment plan " home with me, did some research, thought about

it for a day or so, went back to them and said " I'm not taking this drug or

that one, but this other one, okay. "

The drug I took was a pain/inflammation alleviator. The others were

flat-out antibiotics or close to it - that had some nasty possibly side

effects that did not seem warranted to me, even given the serious infection

situation. They were standard prescriptions - the dentist didn't bother

to argue when I told him I wasn't going to take them.

So yeah - go to anyone you have to in order to fix the problem as quickly

as possible - just don't take every word as gospel, alleviate as much as

you can, but ... do it.

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

March 12, 2005

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:41:08 -0800, West <clairewest@...> wrote:

>

> I recently had a bad gum infection (swollen and inflamed) and I used clay

> both on the outside of my cheek and the inside, on the gum, to draw out the

> toxins. The clay on the I used on the gum was terramin, rubbed in, and on

> my skin a combination of terramin and French green clay, as a masque.

> Before going to bed at night I also rubbed the terramin down into the gum,

> around the roots of the tooth (kind of gritty, but okay if you're going to

> go to sleep.) It was all I needed, and it was only a couple of days or so

> before I was okay, but of course your mom's case may be more serious or take

> a longer time to heal. It can't hurt, though, if you want to try something

> cheap and safe before going to antibiotics.

,

Thanks. What is terramin clay and where would she buy it?

Chris

March 12, 2005

At 06:31 PM 3/12/05 -0500, you wrote:

>I understand that. It's just that she can't afford to go to any

>dentist. If she doesn't get insurance, she needs to just drastically

>cut her spending and save the cash as it's an emergency, I guess.

>

>But I don't see the issue as " conventional " versus " nutritional. " I

>simply don't see the conventional approach as being able to solve the

>problem at all. How are antibiotics going to help, except to stave

>off the infection in an immediate case? It seems probably that she

>needs to have her teeth and a significant portion of her bone removed,

>and the only dentists I'd feel comfortable doing any of this are

>dentists that understand the importance of following Price's procedure

>for removing teeth. That said, if there's any possibility of saving

>the teeth it has to be done. Again, only dentists that are familiar

>with Price and holistic dentistry have a shot here.

>

>I don't mean she needs to see a holistic dentist for dietary advice.

>I mean she needs to see one for *surgery*.

>

>But yes, I agree that it's an immediate problem. Thank you.

Disconnect. I wasn't advocating taking antibiotics without taking other

action (i.e. surgery/removal/whatever).

Also didn't mean to imply that she needed to see a holistic dentist for

dietary advice either, she has you for that, right? But ... now

*I* have a question. What is " Price's procedure for removing teeth " ?

How does it differ from what a " conventional " dentist would do? I know

not whereof ye speak, as it were - am curious for edificational purposes,

but also because I'm wondering if a current issue of mine may date back to

a minor oopsie 18 months ago. Funny how timing works out, huh?

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

March 12, 2005

> But ... now

> *I* have a question. What is " Price's procedure for removing teeth " ?

> How does it differ from what a " conventional " dentist would do?

,

Price's protocol involves removing the periodontal ligament and the

first mm or 2 of the bone beneath the tooth. I've had it done; it's

entirely painless and not much more invasive than the removal of the

tooth itself.

Price found that the periodontal ligament and bone were usually

infected to some degree, and that if they aren't removed, the bone

will not grow back to fill in the socket, and when the gum closes up

there will be a aenerobic environment opportune for infectious

organisms to thrive and continue to act as a foci for systemic

infection. Cleaning out the damaged bone allows the healthy bone to

regrow and fill in the socket.

Chris

March 12, 2005

At 07:43 PM 3/12/05 -0500, you wrote:

>,

>

>Price's protocol involves removing the periodontal ligament and the

>first mm or 2 of the bone beneath the tooth. I've had it done; it's

>entirely painless and not much more invasive than the removal of the

>tooth itself.

>

>Price found that the periodontal ligament and bone were usually

>infected to some degree, and that if they aren't removed, the bone

>will not grow back to fill in the socket, and when the gum closes up

>there will be a aenerobic environment opportune for infectious

>organisms to thrive and continue to act as a foci for systemic

>infection. Cleaning out the damaged bone allows the healthy bone to

>regrow and fill in the socket.

>

>Chris

Okay, that makes sense, thanks. And it's not nearly as involved as I

thought the answer would be heh. I'm pretty sure that's what was done

with me.

Except now I'm thinking that a tiny little bit may have been missed, it's

the most obvious answer to what I've been experiencing for the last few

weeks. Gonna get it checked out. Thanks for the answers!

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

March 14, 2005

<Thanks. What is terramin clay and where would she buy it?>

Here's some info from the website http://www.terramin.com/ where I

purchased:

" In the mid 1960's, after our nation's first astronauts returned to earth

with accelerated osteoporosis from zero-gravity space flights, NASA

desperately needed a cure they couldn't find on the moon: calcium

montmorillonite clay! Read why they sought out Terramin, as well as actual

1960's news clips about taking clay to outer space. "

I thought it was fun to have a " fringe " kind of product that is used by the

U.S. government <g>

There's quite a bit of info on the website and also terramin is mentioned on

Shirley's Wellness Cafe. Re: the first website, there's no toll free

number, but when I emailed with a question, the owner of the company called

me and talked for about a half hour.

Terramin isn't cheap--and maybe your mom can find calcium ontmorillonite

clay of a different kind at a lower price that will be just as effective. I

don't know. But I invested in a five pound jar, and I've found an amazing

array of ways to use it, all with gratifying results.

March 16, 2005

Chris-

>But again, if anyone can add anything, it would be appreciated.

I wish I could say something constructive, but without finding a large bag

of money, I'm afraid your mom is in some fairly serious trouble. I gather

she doesn't eat right?

-

March 16, 2005

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:38:43 -0500, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

>

> Chris-

>

> >But again, if anyone can add anything, it would be appreciated.

>

> I wish I could say something constructive, but without finding a large bag

> of money, I'm afraid your mom is in some fairly serious trouble. I gather

> she doesn't eat right?

Umm, no, not really. She eats some things that are good or ok, but

also eats lots of white bread and whatnot. She was, I think,

preventing her health from running away uncontrollably with some

decent quality supplements, including shark liver oil, but she can't

afford them anymore. Unfortunately, while improving her diet would be

better than not improving it, I doubt there's anything she can do at

this point short of dental surgery.

Chris

March 16, 2005

At 04:40 PM 3/16/05 -0500, you wrote:

>Unfortunately, while improving her diet would be

>better than not improving it, I doubt there's anything she can do at

>this point short of dental surgery.

>

>Chris

Yes. And you've known that all along, haven't you?

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

March 16, 2005

>> >But again, if anyone can add anything, it would be appreciated.

>>

>> I wish I could say something constructive, but without finding a large

>> bag

>> of money, I'm afraid your mom is in some fairly serious trouble. I

>> gather

>> she doesn't eat right?

>

> Umm, no, not really. She eats some things that are good or ok, but

> also eats lots of white bread and whatnot.

>

> Chris

All my upper gum abscesses went away after 2 weeks of no gluten. Could be

grain mycotoxin reaction if not an intolerance. Has your Mom had sinus

infections, ear blockage or brain fog?

Wanita

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March 16, 2005

I wish I could say something constructive, but without finding a large

bag

> > of money, I'm afraid your mom is in some fairly serious trouble.

[Chris]I doubt there's anything she can do at

> this point short of dental surgery.

you know the one of the critical risks of periodontal infections is

their proximity to the heart, right? Also the brain, I imagine.

Please make haste.

B.

March 16, 2005

Chris-

>Unfortunately, while improving her diet would be

>better than not improving it, I doubt there's anything she can do at

>this point short of dental surgery.

Well, maybe she can work out a deal with a biological dentist like someone

else suggested. But if there's any way you can get her to fix her diet,

that will help a lot in the future too, surgery or no.

-

March 18, 2005

> My mom's upper left gum is swollen pretty badly. Oddly, the swelling

> is protruding from the upper portion of the gum rather than the

> portion adjascent to the teeth.

Sorry I'm late to this discussion (been moving!) and sorry if someone

already posted this... but about a month ago we had a dentist speak at our

local WAP meeting and he had some very interesting information. His name is

Dr Azdair and he came to teach us about tooth blotting. I don't know

if you've heard of this but it's a special kind of toothbrush that you sort

of tap around your gumline and it pulls all the bacteria out. It's supposed

to protect against gum disease and all manor of ailments. I think the Price

Pottenger Foundation sells these blotters.

Anyway, the reason I wanted to post was that he was talking about a product

he has been using on his patients with great success. It's a freeze dried

Colustrum by PRO Symbiotics (from NZ cows.) He has his patients open up the

capsules and put this powder directly on their gum problems. He says he has

never in his many years of practice seen a product work so well. Maybe this

could help your mother. He does phone consultations and his number is

626/282-3648.

Just to give you an idea of what to expect... he seems to think most

" biological " dentists are quacks and is very much against putting plastics

(resins) in one's mouth. He only uses gold that has been electrically

matched the patient's body. He is very expensive... and slightly surly... a

bit of a rebel. Overall I liked him! I seem to remember his phone consults

were somewhat reasonable.

I don't ever buy supplements except CLO and Butter oil but I spurged on this

product and it cleared up a little rash I had in my mouth pronto. It tastes

really good too.

Anyway hope this helps,

Kim

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