Re: Not supposed to hate

July 4, 2002

Hi Barb...So you are telling me it is OK to hate this vile vicious monster? OK

fine, LOL I will just say: I do HATE that woman and Barb says it's OK!!!

barbtremon wrote: Hi Everyone:

What is this concept -- not " supposed " to hate?

Maybe I use the word loosely --

NADA used to tell me " don't hate " !

Don't hate?

SHE'S the one who PROVOKED or even EVOKED the feelings of hate I

experienced when I was only 5 years old!

Does a dog hate a person who beats them. I think so!

does a cat?

A horse?

I think so!

I almost ended up in a mental institution because I had NO support

for my whole life from NADA! Not only NO SUPPORT but ACTIVE MENTAL

ABUSE.

Yes, I have HATEFUL feelings!! I DO!

Barb

I don't know if HATE is the word I want to use or not...cuz we aren't

suppose to HATE are we?? So when I'm angry....I use the hate

word...when I feel nothing...I just DISLIKE her VERY VERY VERY VERY

ditto......much!!!!!!! LOL Truth is....right now I am EXTREMElY angry

at that vile vicious hateful thing of a human - she isn't really

human....REAL PEOPLE CANNOT BE THAT DAMNED MEAN!!!

>

> Angry because I can be!!! Take Care -

>

July 5, 2002

Barb, Here's what I think about hate. I think we are told " don't

hate " because it is such a passionate feeling. I also think that it

is one of the differences between humans and animals. I just got

back for dog-sitting for my (quite probably NPD) father. He beats

his dog. The worst thing for me the whole time I was in his creepy

ass house was watching that poor animal never " settle. " He was

always on edge, he does not TRUST anyone. But from what I saw and

have always seen and felt, he doesn't hate. He fears and he

distrusts, but honestly that poor dog doesn't hate my stupid father.

I don't think that animals are able to hate. A dog might bite

someone who hits it or in some other way defend itself, but it isn't

out of hate, more fear. That is what is confusing to me, why can't I

just not hate? I hate to HATE someone. I think that all of us come

into the world without knowing hate, it is something we are taught,

and something that makes us less " innocent " than dogs, cats or

hamsters. (haha) That is one of the things that has made me the most

angry at my mother and father, they make it sooooo hard for me to NOT

HATE them! I know that I was at some time incapable of hate and that

they, my parents, the ones who were supposed to teach me good things,

taught me to hate them. I didn't want to and I still don't want to,

but damn they have really made me hate them. I know that I won't

hate them forever, because I have a funny feeling that my hate is

more of a mix of fear and distrust and anger. I will someday

(hopefully soon) be able to not be afraid of them, know that I can't

and don't HAVE to trust them, and maybe I will be able to forgive

them so that I am not angry anymore. Maybe that is a " lofty " goal,

but I don't know what else to do about hate. --

~ I just re-read that last part, it kind of reminds me of the

Serenity Prayer in a way, but then again, I am up too late and going

cross-eyed! 8-)

> Hi Everyone:

>

> What is this concept -- not " supposed " to hate?

>

> Maybe I use the word loosely --

>

> NADA used to tell me " don't hate " !

>

> Don't hate?

> SHE'S the one who PROVOKED or even EVOKED the feelings of hate I

> experienced when I was only 5 years old!

>

> Does a dog hate a person who beats them. I think so!

>

> does a cat?

>

> A horse?

>

> I think so!

>

> I almost ended up in a mental institution because I had NO support

> for my whole life from NADA! Not only NO SUPPORT but ACTIVE MENTAL

> ABUSE.

>

> Yes, I have HATEFUL feelings!! I DO!

>

> Barb

July 5, 2002

I never hated anything. I never was angry. Nobody really meant any

harm.This was generally manifested in my 20s when I went through a

bad relationship, the marriage to suicidal husband #1.

In the first bad boyfriend situation, I allowed myself to be treated

very badly, and tried the " love conquers all " routine. In the second

situation, I was in a really really sick psycho situation in a

terribly wounded family and I didn't feel anger..*wouldn't allow

myself to feel anger*.

Finally after his death I lost it in front of his family in a NY

subway. I got mad that he didn't think enough of me to stay, or to

even leave me a note. I got mad. That episode was severely used to

paint me in a bad light with my previous inlaws. He was Filipino and

there were cultural constrictions on how women act about dead people.

When I was going through rocky stuff with current husband then

boyfriend, I finally reached my limit of his inability to commit and

with GREAT BRAVERY because I just couldn't bear it one minute longer,

I decided not to go to a party where I knew he would be. It was a

tiny step but I felt the core of me suddenly solidify because I had

done someone to take up for myself.

With my FOO, I never faced how ridiculous they were. I was the

peacemaker.

During the time I was widowed a very good friend of mine told me I

had to be brave enough to hate and get mad because those were

emotions that made people strong. I didn't know what she meant, but

she had no trouble expressing her anger at situations. Through her I

witnessed the possibility of good people getting angry and the world

not falling down.

Acting out on hate is not good I think, but facing the feeling and

admitting it can be between me and the wall and it airs the room.

Just last summer I let the anger and hate toward my parents out. It

was overwhelming.

Right now I am not angry at nada (maybe will be later) Right now I am

not feeling how I felt for months, which was that I absolutely could

not see/hear/deal with her. Now, I feel that I just don't want to be

bothered.

kathleen

July 5, 2002

okay, i hope i am not getting too deep here...but there is the school

of thought that FEAR is the opposite of Love...not hate. when you

were writing about your father's poor dog, i thought of that.

animals are more in touch with REAL emotions in their purest form.

while, us humans, put a lot of our perceptions onto our emotions.

what may FEEL like " hate " to us is really just a form of fear. i'm

not even sure that " hate " exists in the purest spiritual context.

hate is a perception, a choice, if you will.

that's why i printed out edith's email about attempting to surpass

all this resentment about my nada. spiritually i KNOW it's not right

for me to spew all this negativity about her for the rest of my

life. i may need to do that NOW...but i aspire to overcome it...and

love her anyway. (i may not have to deal with her in my life, but i

do have overcome what she does to my insides.)

spiritually the only thing i can do is LOVE her. and unfortunately,

she programmed me to make another choice.

> > Hi Everyone:

> >

> > What is this concept -- not " supposed " to hate?

> >

> > Maybe I use the word loosely --

> >

> > NADA used to tell me " don't hate " !

> >

> > Don't hate?

>

> > SHE'S the one who PROVOKED or even EVOKED the feelings of hate I

> > experienced when I was only 5 years old!

> >

> > Does a dog hate a person who beats them. I think so!

> >

> > does a cat?

> >

> > A horse?

> >

> > I think so!

> >

> > I almost ended up in a mental institution because I had NO

support

> > for my whole life from NADA! Not only NO SUPPORT but ACTIVE

MENTAL

> > ABUSE.

> >

> > Yes, I have HATEFUL feelings!! I DO!

> >

> > Barb

July 5, 2002

I honestly have wished both of my " parents " happiness and peace. But you

know, now I really don't believe deep down that they deserve it. Why should

they be happy and at peace when I am not able to be. I feel like it is thier

fault that I don't know how to be happy and peaceful and have a good

life...but I have much time left here in this life. I am going to teach

myself this stuff, or die trying.. Then maybe they can be kinda happy--<gag,

choke> I just don't like them. They suck.

July 5, 2002

, if I may say something here............

I don't think animals hate either. They are such pure souls, as are

cats and all creatures. Dog spelled backwards is " god " .

Looking back, I think the thing that started me on my healing path in

October 2000 was saying the words, " I wish you (mother) happiness,

health, and well being " to myself, every chance I had. At first I

couldn't say the words, my hatred was so deep. But I kept at it, and

after a week, the words came, but a river of tears followed. I kept at

it, against the grain a lot of the time, and it got easier and easier.

When I'd lapse for a few days, I'd notice a change in my inner

peacefulness. I HAD to keep it going, just to see where it would lead.

Now I know.

SmileS!

Carol

anyrae wrote:

>

> Barb, Here's what I think about hate. I think we are told " don't

> hate " because it is such a passionate feeling. I also think that it

> is one of the differences between humans and animals. I just got

> back for dog-sitting for my (quite probably NPD) father. He beats

> his dog. The worst thing for me the whole time I was in his creepy

> ass house was watching that poor animal never " settle. " He was

> always on edge, he does not TRUST anyone. But from what I saw and

> have always seen and felt, he doesn't hate. He fears and he

> distrusts, but honestly that poor dog doesn't hate my stupid father.

> I don't think that animals are able to hate. A dog might bite

> someone who hits it or in some other way defend itself, but it isn't

> out of hate, more fear. That is what is confusing to me, why can't I

> just not hate? I hate to HATE someone. I think that all of us come

> into the world without knowing hate, it is something we are taught,

> and something that makes us less " innocent " than dogs, cats or

> hamsters. (haha) That is one of the things that has made me the most

> angry at my mother and father, they make it sooooo hard for me to NOT

> HATE them! I know that I was at some time incapable of hate and that

> they, my parents, the ones who were supposed to teach me good things,

> taught me to hate them. I didn't want to and I still don't want to,

> but damn they have really made me hate them. I know that I won't

> hate them forever, because I have a funny feeling that my hate is

> more of a mix of fear and distrust and anger. I will someday

> (hopefully soon) be able to not be afraid of them, know that I can't

> and don't HAVE to trust them, and maybe I will be able to forgive

> them so that I am not angry anymore. Maybe that is a " lofty " goal,

> but I don't know what else to do about hate. --

> ~ I just re-read that last part, it kind of reminds me of the

> Serenity Prayer in a way, but then again, I am up too late and going

> cross-eyed! 8-)

>

> > Hi Everyone:

> >

> > What is this concept -- not " supposed " to hate?

> >

> > Maybe I use the word loosely --

> >

> > NADA used to tell me " don't hate " !

> >

> > Don't hate?

>

> > SHE'S the one who PROVOKED or even EVOKED the feelings of hate I

> > experienced when I was only 5 years old!

> >

> > Does a dog hate a person who beats them. I think so!

> >

> > does a cat?

> >

> > A horse?

> >

> > I think so!

> >

> > I almost ended up in a mental institution because I had NO support

> > for my whole life from NADA! Not only NO SUPPORT but ACTIVE MENTAL

> > ABUSE.

> >

> > Yes, I have HATEFUL feelings!! I DO!

> >

> > Barb

>

> To get off the list, send a blank message to

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>

July 5, 2002

wrote:

> I honestly have wished both of my " parents " happiness and peace. But you

> know, now I really don't believe deep down that they deserve it. Why should

> they be happy and at peace when I am not able to be.

, I totally understand. I used to feel that way too. Why wish

our enemies good things, when they are so cruel. Doesn't make sense.

But, here's the rationale. If we wish our enemies well, maybe it won't

do any good, but it certainly won't do any harm. And if by chance it

should help them, it can't make our lives worse, only better, because

then they won't be so full of vile, and that's good for us. Right?

That was the ONLY reason I gave it a try with mother, and with a little

time and some patience, it paid off handsomely!

Yes, she's still hopelessly stuck in the BPD quagmire, and yes, she'll

probably die like that, but.......... she managed to solve her own

horrific living problems by going to a really nice retirement home (I

never would have been able to get her to go to a retirement home in ten

zillion years!) where she'll be well taken care of for the rest of her

life in exchange for her entire estate. I no longer worry about her.

Victory for me! She told my children at Christmas when they visited

her, that she really loves it at the home. Mother never loves anything,

so that's another victory - for me!

Did my well wishes cause all these great things? Probably not. But, it

didn't hurt anything, I feel tons better, and mother apparently is

happy, which is a miracle.

> I feel like it is thier fault that I don't know how to be happy

> and peaceful and have a good life...

Yup, it is!

> but I have much time left here in this life.

Absolutely!

> I am going to teach myself this stuff, or die trying..

You go, girl! Woo! Hoo!

> Then maybe they can be kinda happy--<gag, choke>

Your happiness comes first. If they find happiness, so be it.

> I just don't like them.

I don't blame you one bit. I don't like my mother either, even today.

We don't have to like anyone.

> They suck.

Yup, the do!

SmileS!

Carol

July 5, 2002

Carol,

It seemed like as soon as I really knew that I didn't have to fix

her, and that she was on her own, then she started doing stuff to

provide for herself. I was always able to remind myself that if

nothing else, I know that my mother was mean enough to survive. That

gave me some relief from guilt, and still does. Just when I felt her

starting with her whole cycle of being jobless, homeless etc.. she

got married. I felt such relief about it, I just knew that now I

didn't have to worry about being the only one that cared about what

happened to her. I was just bummed that he wasn't loaded! oops, did

I say that? She has just been such an emotional as well as financial

burden for quite a while. I am glad that she got married though, so

in a way I am happy that she is " happy. " Does that count? haha

Although, I feel like someone should have warned the new guy.

> Yes, she's still hopelessly stuck in the BPD quagmire, and yes,

she'll

> probably die like that, but.......... she managed to solve her own

> horrific living problems by going to a really nice retirement home

(I

> never would have been able to get her to go to a retirement home in

ten

> zillion years!) where she'll be well taken care of for the rest of

her

> life in exchange for her entire estate. I no longer worry about

her.

> Victory for me! She told my children at Christmas when they visited

> her, that she really loves it at the home. Mother never loves

anything,

> so that's another victory - for me!

July 5, 2002

, that's super! super! super! See......... miracles happen when

we least expect them, and when we're not looking. It's step-dad's

problem now. He lifted things right off your shoulders! What an

angel!!!!! And he doesn't even have wings to fly with either! He's

just an ordinary fellow who happened to come along and lift you out of

the muck.

See my comments inserted below.........

wrote:

> It seemed like as soon as I really knew that I didn't have to fix

> her, and that she was on her own, then she started doing stuff to

> provide for herself.

Yup! Nadas have a knack for that.

> I was always able to remind myself that if nothing else, I know

> that my mother was mean enough to survive.

Isn't THAT the truth! Who would have thought my very elderly mother,

who couldn't drive, could barely walk, was losing her health, and lived

alone 100 miles from the closest relative, whom she'd alienated, could

pull off getting her house sold and then move into a retirement home.

Yes, indeed. These nadas of ours are too mean and too cunning to be

done in. And they are great actresses when they feign helplessness.

> That gave me some relief from guilt, and still does.

Yes indeed!

> Just when I felt her

> starting with her whole cycle of being jobless, homeless etc.. she

> got married. I felt such relief about it, I just knew that now I

> didn't have to worry about being the only one that cared about what

> happened to her.

What a relief, huh? I totally understand.

> I was just bummed that he wasn't loaded! oops, did I say that?

Ha! Ha! Ha! I love it!

> She has just been such an emotional as well as financial

> burden for quite a while.

Amen!!!

> I am glad that she got married though, so

> in a way I am happy that she is " happy. "

Yup! What a miracle!

> Does that count? haha

It sure does!!! ;-)))))))

> Although, I feel like someone should have warned the new guy.

Nope! He went into it with two eyes and two ears. It's HIS problem

now.

SmileS!

Carol

Carol wrote:

> Yes, she's still hopelessly stuck in the BPD quagmire, and yes,

> she'll probably die like that, but.......... she managed to solve

> her own horrific living problems by going to a really nice

> retirement home (I never would have been able to get her to go to

> a retirement home in ten zillion years!) where she'll be well

> taken care of for the rest of her life in exchange for her entire

> estate. I no longer worry about her. Victory for me! She told

> my children at Christmas when they visited her, that she really

> loves it at the home. Mother never loves anything, so that's

> another victory - for me!

July 6, 2002