RE: HCl without Pepsin

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>Does anyone know where I can find hydrochloric acid without Pepsin

>in it?

>

>This is for use between meals rather than for food digestion..

Here's one.

http://store./iherb/betaine4.html

I don't know about the fenugreek, though.

Aha! I've found a better one! (At least it should be better...)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:A1t0XWi-yL0J:shrc.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv\

c%3FScreen%3DPROD%26Product_Code%3D10494%26Category_Code%3DM+%22Self+Health%22+b\

etaine & hl=en

That's Self Health brand Betaine HCl, and its ingredients are listed as

Betaine HCl and gelatin. Unfortunately, the potency is rather high for

inter-meal use -- 425mg.

Hmm, that looks like it could be a cool company. They promise that their

capsules contain the declared supplement and the gelatin in the capsule and

nothing else, and they look pretty cheap. Could be worth trying.

Hope this helped! I just did some googling, but I'm interested in the same

thing. Maybe it would be worth opening the Self Health capsules and

dividing them into two or three doses. A pain in the neck, but there seem

to be few alternatives for people with impaired HCl production.

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[Guest guest]

Thank you ! I googled a lot and couldn't come up with one -- I'm

impressed!

I went ahead and ordered the 425 mg.Betaine from Self Health. I'm not as

concerned about the strength as I seem to have absolutely no acid in my

stomach; I've taken up to a dozen 675 mg. HCl capsules with meals and never

felt any heat. I figure that as soon as I feel some heat it will signal the

return of " normal " stomach acid production.

A little over a year ago an H. Pylori infection nearly killed me. The

bacteria literally put a hole through my stomach and the rupture blocked my

stomach canal so nothing, not even gas could get through. 3 months ago, a

breath test showed that I finally got rid of the bacteria. I read, however,

that the return of normal stomach acid production takes at least a year.

Until I read the excellent(!) Townsend Letter

http://www.townsendletter.com/July2004/unseenepidemic0704.htm

someone posted on your site a while back, I didn't consider the value of

keeping acid levels between 1.8 and 2.2 between meals. It's to keep out

bacteria and fungus (among other things).

If anyone here has problems with H. Pylori, that article is a must read. In

fact, read it several times. It confirmed for me many things that have taken

me a year to stumble onto. Everything that that particular Townsend article

discusses and recommends are the things that ultimately worked for me. I was

relieved to see that " taking HCl without Pepsin between meals " was just

about the only thing I wasn't doing. I just couldn't find an HCl without the

unnecessarily aggravating Pepsin in it.

That information would have saved me a lot of time and energy if I'd read

(and knew to trust the information!) before. As someone who has jumped

through many hoops trying to recover from a Helicobacter Pylori infection, I

highly recommend the protocol suggested in that article.

Thanks again !

~Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>Thank you ! I googled a lot and couldn't come up with one -- I'm

>impressed!

They key turned out to be google's advanced search. I searched for

" betaine " and " HCl " with " pepsin " excluded. That feature is often really

useful.

>I'm not as

>concerned about the strength as I seem to have absolutely no acid in my

>stomach; I've taken up to a dozen 675 mg. HCl capsules with meals and never

>felt any heat.

Holy cow! I take 6 520mg capsules, and I eat some pretty large

meals. However, I'm unable to completely lick the reflux problem, and in

my case it seems tied to pepsin. Most betaine HCl supplements have a lot

more pepsin than the one I'm currently using, Pure Encapsulations, which

has 21mg per capsule. Prior to trying Pure Encapsulations, all HCl

supplements I tried radically improved my digestion (I mean RADICALLY) but

in short order gave me life-threatening reflux. I have asthma as it is,

but acid was spilling into my lungs in large enough quantities to be very

dangerous. Pure Encapsulations, seemingly by virtue of having less pepsin,

is much less of a problem, but I've long wondered whether a pepsin-free HCl

supplement would be even better, and now that your question spurred me to

find one, I'm going to find out.

Maybe my pepsin intolerance is there because I also take a pancreatin

supplement, and between the pepsin in the HCl supplement and the protease

in the pancreatin I'm getting too much? I really don't know, but I'm going

to try the Self Health pepsin-free supplement for that reason and also

because it has zero fillers. The wood fiber Pure Encapsulations uses as a

filler is, I think, bothersome, though less so than some other fillers on

the market.

>I figure that as soon as I feel some heat it will signal the

>return of " normal " stomach acid production.

Unfortunately, some causes of impaired production preclude any resumption

of normal production. The necessary cells might be dead, for example. In

my case, I believe it was an asthma medication I took several years ago

which destroyed my digestion, and nothing I've done nutritionally since has

done a thing. I continue to be dependent on HCl and enzyme supplementation.

That said, good luck! You might well recover!

>Thanks again !

Glad to help! That's what I'm here for!

-

[Guest guest]

[ said, " Most betaine HCl supplements have a lot

more pepsin than the one I'm currently using, Pure Encapsulations, which

has 21mg per capsule. Prior to trying Pure Encapsulations, all HCl

supplements I tried radically improved my digestion (I mean RADICALLY) but

in short order gave me life-threatening reflux. I have asthma as it is,

but acid was spilling into my lungs in large enough quantities to be very

dangerous. Pure Encapsulations, seemingly by virtue of having less pepsin,

is much less of a problem, but I've long wondered whether a pepsin-free HCl

supplement would be even better, and now that your question spurred me to

find one, I'm going to find out. " ]

Thanks , Lately, I've been using Thorne B.P.P: It has 520mg. Betaine and

20mg. Pepsin and 100mg. Pancreatin. I guess I never really considered how

much pancreatin or pepsin I should be using in proportion to the HCl. I'm

like you in that HCl was the key to my digestion problems. In my case, among

many other problems, I couldn't understand why I was continually anemic when

I was eating liver once a week as well as pounds of dark leafy greens. After

only three months, I have strong smooth fingernails and new hair is growing

in around my face and all over my head. My hairdresser said I had an

undercoat like a German Shepard..

Anyway, I haven't considered how the pepsin fits into the HCl equation

because, while not perfect, I've been so delighted with the gains I've made.

But now I want to fine-tune the program a bit. For example, although I drink

lemon juice first thing in the morning, I still belch at the first bite of

fruit. It has seemed very wrong to take my very active HCl-Pepsin-Pancreatin

mix on a just waking up thoroughly empty stomach with no food to go into it

but a little fruit. I think taking pure HCl might be the answer! I think my

morning belch indicates that my stomach is simply too alkaline -- like

taking baking soda in water makes you burp... My experiment will begin when

my pure HCl arrives. Upon rising I plan to take 420mg of the pure HCl

(without pepsin or pancreatin) and see if I still get a belch on the first

bite of food. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again!

~Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin wrote:

>A little over a year ago an H. Pylori infection nearly killed me. The

bacteria literally put a hole through my stomach and the rupture blocked my

stomach canal so nothing, not even gas could get through. 3 months ago, a

breath test showed that I finally got rid of the bacteria. I read, however,

that the return of normal stomach acid production takes at least a year.

Hi Robin,

Did you know that yoghurt/kefir can help to control H. Pylori? After reading

the Townsend Letter,

http://www.townsendletter.com/July2004/unseenepidemic0704.htm

I think it would be wise for everyone to incorporate kefir into their diet!

(Kefir has even more helpful probiotics than yoghurt).

H. Pylori: Yogurt Suppresses Ulcer-Causing H. Pylori: Evidence suggests that

ingesting lactic acid bacteria exerts a suppressive effect on Helicobacter

pylori infection in both animals and humans. Supplementing with Lactobacillus-

and Bifidobacterium-containing yogurt (AB-yogurt) was shown to improve the rates

of eradication of H. pylori in humans. 59 adult volunteers infected with H.

pylori were given AB-yogurt twice daily after a meal for 6 wk. Eleven were

treated with milk placebo. Bifidobacterium exerted an in vitro inhibitory effect

against H. pylori, whereas Lactobacillus did not. AB-yogurt decreased the urease

activity of H. pylori, i.e., suppressed H. pylori, after 6 wk of therapy (P <

0.0001). Effects of ingesting Lactobacillus- and Bifidobacterium-containing

yogurt in subjects with colonized Helicobacter pylori. Wang KY, Li SN, Liu CS,

Perng DS, Su YC, Wu DC, Jan CM, Lai CH, Wang TN, Wang WM. Taiwan. Am J Clin

Nutr. 2004 Sep;80(3):737-41

and the K9's

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your advice . Since the H. Pylori ulcer I eat fermented

food at every meal, mostly sauerkraut and kim chee. I'm in San Francisco so

I can get good quality natto as well. I take VSL3 probiotics when I travel

or am not able to eat much. I'm careful about milk ferments because of a

true milk allergy but, some days, I seem to be able to tolerate 24 hour

fermented goat milk yogurt especially if it's dripped.

Since you mentioned diet, I also don't tolerate gluten although tests show

that I am not celiac. And of course I try to avoid the big bacteria/fungus

feeders like sugar and most starches. In the beginning, I very roughly

followed the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. I think it helped when I knew

absolutely nothing about digestion and had no idea what was causing a whole

host of problems.

~Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>I take VSL3 probiotics when I travel

>or am not able to eat much.

As you're following the SCD, at least somewhat, you might like to know that

VSL3 has cornstarch as a filler. It's especially galling because in their

testing, which they cite as proof of how great their product is, they used

pure bacteria, but then they add cornstarch to their commercial product.

I'd recommend Custom Probiotics (http://www.customprobiotics.com/) though

not necessarily their CP-1 capsule, as it's mostly bifidus.

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[Guest guest]

-

>VSL3 has cornstarch as a filler

Thanks for mentioning that! I know about the corn starch. And it irritates

me that VSL3 doesn't mention the additive on their website (unless the site

has been changed.) I phoned them several times to talk about it. However, I

continue to use their stuff from time to time because I travel and the

packets are convenient.

I agree that if you truly want to follow the SCD then you probably shouldn't

use VSL3 because of the cornstarch. When I was seriously following SCD I

used Custom Probiotics among others. (But even then, since Harry puts Bifido

in many of his blends, his stuff isn't entirely " SCD legal " either?)

~Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>I agree that if you truly want to follow the SCD then you probably shouldn't

>use VSL3 because of the cornstarch.

The cornstarch was actually unmasked because some SCD people tried VSL3 and

got very, very sick. After much digging they got the company to admit to

using cornstarch.

>When I was seriously following SCD I

>used Custom Probiotics among others. (But even then, since Harry puts Bifido

>in many of his blends, his stuff isn't entirely " SCD legal " either?)

Well, that's why I advised against using his blends, but he sells a bunch

of high-quality individual strains which are free of fillers and

bifida. Unfortunately they're only available as powders, so when I buy a

bottle I wind up spending an hour putting the powder into capsules, but so

it goes.

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[Guest guest]

Robin-

>After

>only three months, I have strong smooth fingernails and new hair is growing

>in around my face and all over my head. My hairdresser said I had an

>undercoat like a German Shepard..

Wow, good for you! My fingernails are definitely stronger and smoother

than they used to be, but I still have a ways to go.

>My experiment will begin when

>my pure HCl arrives. Upon rising I plan to take 420mg of the pure HCl

>(without pepsin or pancreatin) and see if I still get a belch on the first

>bite of food. I'll let you know how it goes.

Please do keep me posted, and I'll let you know how things go on my end. I

expect the pure HCl to arrive next Monday, and I'm hoping for good results!

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