Re: My experience with caffeine

[Guest guest]

Chris

> It seems at 23 I'm way too young to have such a powerful need for

> caffeine.

If you have such an extensive history of caffeine usage at the early

age of 23, I think the following may be relevant.

A child (ie someone who is still growing, so possibly up to age 20)

can get addicted to a substance MUCH more quickly than an adult.

That's because the growing body 'assumes' that the addictive substance

is a necessary and ordinary part of life, and makes adjustments to

include the addictive substance as a 'normal' part of the body's

metabolism. That's why an alcohol drinking age of 21 makes sense.

(Otherwise, IMHO age 21 is stupid, since you can sign up to die for

your country at age 18.)

Does that help? It doesn't explain why cigarette smoking is a habit

that you can take or leave... Maybe you smoked less or more

inconsistently than you drank coffee, tea or soda when you were an

teenager?

I get addicted to caffeine easily, but can also break the addiction

easily (after a day or 2 of headaches). However, I didn't start

drinking coffee or many sodas til age 18 or so, and as a female, had

already stopped growing. I never have smoked, so I can't make a

comparison there.

Hope this helps!

Jan

[Guest guest]

i have so much to say i don't know where to start...i'm so

glad you wrote this. this subject has been a thorn in my side for a

long time now.

Have you ever read the book Caffeine Blues? he blames caffeine on a

lot of things and says try being off it for one month...by then, you

usually feel better.

i drank LOTS of soda growing up...caffeine. plus some iced tea and

lots of chocolate.

fell in love with coffee in college...but didn't get hooked til i had

a boring office job. some days the coffee was the only thing to look

forward to, and certainly got me thru the day.

i'm 50 now and have been trying to quit for at least a decade.

i've quit several times; the longest i ever quit for was about 2 mo.

i felt pretty good, too, but i ALWAYS come back to it; one day

feeling tired for whatever reason (usually lack of sleep when i have

to 'perform' the next day) is all it takes.

i've noticed that when i'm hooked on coffee, it affects me

hormonally...menstrual cramps and breast tenderness. when i'm off

caffeine this goes away.

i've also notice that when i'm on caffeine, it's almost impossible to

get up in the morning, and sleeping late becomes almost a necessity.

if i have to get up early, i feel tired all day. i need 9 h sleep to

feel 'normal' and be productive. when i'm off coffee i'm still tired

in the morning but it's easier to get up.

i used to be very involved in a wonderful web site,

www.radiantrecovery.com which is devoted to people who are sugar

sensitive (read: addicted) and while sugar was the main subject, it

encouraged getting off caffeine for many of the same reasons to get

off sugar.

a lot of people on the web site said it was easier to get off sugar

than caffeine. i found this to be true as well. it took me a few

years to get off sugar but it's been ten years trying to get off

coffee off and on and i have finally given up tho i hate to say that.

i came to the conclusion that my body 'needed' coffee and

isn't 'normal' without it.

in order for me to get off and stay off coffee forever, i'm guessing

it might take me a year or so for my body to be normal without it.

but i just don't think i could stay off it for a year.

and yet i have a wt. problem, and i've read that coffee contributes

to obesity. i don't know if this is true...so i would love to be off

it if it would help me lose wt. but i just don't think i have it in

me.

i also found that i have more energy in the spring and fall in

general, and that's when i would usually go off coffee. and it would

only last a month or two cuz the seasonal energy would only last

about that long.

i find it virtually IMPOSSIBLE to get thru summer and winter without

caffeine. a lot like that office job.

summer i hate; the heat. Coffee helps pull me out of the summer

doldrums. winter i love but i'm very tired and sleepy all winter and

so coffee helps that.

like i said, i've given up and have just decided to accept the fact

that i'm a caffeine junkie (if 2 big mugs in the morning, rarely 3,

of half decaffeinated qualifies me as a junkie) and that this is part

of my life.

i've been concerned about bone loss...but i consume a lot of cod

liver oil and raw dairy, and i went to the dentist the other day for

my root canal pain problem...and he told me i had good, dense bone

and that's why i was in so much pain...the density of the bone was

keeping the toxin from seeping out and thus causing the pain. he

said i should go ahead and have the apical surgery my endodontist

wanted to do...and save the tooth. he said because the bone was so

good...it would be harder to remove the tooth. good news...i get to

keep the tooth, which i've spent thousands on, for 4 root canals and

2 crowns. but i digress.

i've never had that much of problem actually giving up coffee...i

wean for a few days then stop. withdrawal has never been a

problem...it's the extreme tiredness.

plus i LOVE coffee. decaf doesn't taste the same or as good...i've

tried them all. i've tried every coffee substitute.

one of the last times i quit i think i spent the first week on the

couch and slept a LOT. it got better but i never felt as good as i

feel on caffeine.

the only way i seem to get any housework done at all is if i have

coffee beforehand; the times i quit coffee, my house was a mess til i

went back on it. and that first day back on it...i'm a cleaning WIZ.

the times i gave up coffee for a month i felt almost as bad at the

end of the month as i did at the beginning.

i feel more peaceful off coffee...i just have no energy. i exercise

but it doesn't matter. i guess i prefer the energy to the peace.

i'd love to be peaceful and not do housework...but my dh would be a

wreck.

speaking of which, my dh is one of the most normal, nicest people

i've ever met and he sips coffee pretty much the first half of the

day, every day.

i'm sorry i can't offer you any help...i can only commiserate.

best to you, Chris.

laura in nj

> I know there are some anti-coffee people in this crowd, some

> pro-coffee, some reluctant users, and some people who believe

> coffee-friendliness depends on metabolic type... I thought I'd throw

> my experience out there and see if any thoughts bounce back.

>

> From everything I've heard, coffee should be really easy to give

up.

> Unlike cigarettes, the physical withdrawals only, supposedly, last

3-5

> days. But for whatever reason I've always found cigarettes pretty

> easy to give up, and coffee to have a powerful grip on me.

>

> I don't remember when I started drinking coffee, but when I was a

> teenager I used to start the day with about 24 ounces of Coca-cola

and

> a 12 oz glass of iced tea from the powdered mix, which together

> probably has a good amount of caffeine. I remember that I drank a

lot

> of coffee in college, in large part because I liked coffee, plus I

> went to poetry readings at coffee shops and stuff, but also because

I

> had a problem where if I went to a lecture class after work I would

> get total brain fog and be unable to keep my eyes open unless I had

> coffee.

>

> When I did the NT thing, I quit coffee for a long time. I still

drank

> it, but less frequently, and never a full cup of caffeinated-- decaf

> or half decaf (water-processed) or something like that. And I

recall

> this period having a lot of brain fog type symptoms that I

interpreted

> as hypoglycemia, although I never associated it with lack of

caffeine.

> My brain fog problems went away when after a few weeks on the

Warrior

> Diet, but, come to think of it, I was using caffeine-- green tea,

> black tea, sometimes coffee-- during my undereating phase, and I

> wonder if that had something to do with it.

>

> When I was doing the concrete thing, I got hooked on way too much

> coffee. I was probably drinking about six servings per day. A mug

> (about 2 cups) in the morning, some with lunch, and some after work

> before I hit the gym. I needed it to keep me going, because the

work

> load was enormous and I was really doing overkill by hitting the gym

> afterwards!

>

> I also noticed that this was having health drawbacks. I was getting

> twitchy-- eye twitches, other muscle twitches, etc. I was also

> clearly becoming very dependent on the coffee. And I think it

> contributed to a chronic low-level anxiety or elevated tension or

> something subtle but nevertheless there like that. Plus an

intuitive

> feeling like in a caffeinated state my bones and teeth were being

> drained.

>

> So I tried quitting coffee. First week I drank a little black tea

and

> I took an herbal non-caffeine energy booster. Second week I dropped

> caffeine. I just started zoning out in the morning. My boss said,

> " Hey, are you ok? " " Yeah, why? " " Well, you're not moving. "

> After a while I just gave up because I felt like I was letting my

> co-workers down by not being able to keep up with the workload.

>

> I quit coffee for my VCO fast 3 months ago when I had the teaching

> job, and I did allright, and actually felt better bodily in the

second

> week, more at peace. I was underperforming mentally, somewhat,

> probably from the fasting. But I tried my first cup of coffee soon

> after as a mood booster and then it was no time till I was drinking

> four servings a day again. I would start to crave coffee at lunch

> time but have no access to it, and then get a medium coffee at

Dunkin

> Donuts once I left work. Sometimes I would drink a medium coffee

> (which I think is 16 oz?) and then go to bed a couple hours later.

>

> I'm surprised at how quickly I went from having a little in the

> morning to full-blown back into the habit. Cigarettes were never

like

> this for me. After I quit for years there were a couple times

where I

> smoked just a little bit a day for periods, or could not smoke every

> day, etc, so coffee's grip is much stronger.

>

> I quit again this past week, and on the first day I couldn't even

> move. I just slept all day long. I took a couple 2-hour naps

during

> the day, and laid on the couch watching tv while I was awake. That

> got better over a couple days, but over a week I've gotten this

> feeling like something's gripping my head, etc. And I do get prone

to

> fatigue without the coffee.

>

> It seems at 23 I'm way too young to have such a powerful need for

> caffeine. I'm wondering whether it's normal to have this intense an

> addiction to that amount of coffee, why I can't seem to have a

> moderate relationship with caffeine, and I'm wondering if there's

> something about my system that has given me a predeliction for

coffee.

> Could it be that there's something messed up with me metabolically

> that makes me need caffeine for a fix? In other words, did I go for

> the coffee habit as a form of self-medication, rather than the

coffee

> itself creating the need for coffee (the addiction theory, if you

> will)?

>

> Chris

[Guest guest]

>

> A child (ie someone who is still growing, so possibly up to age 20)

> can get addicted to a substance MUCH more quickly than an adult.

> That's because the growing body 'assumes' that the addictive substance

> is a necessary and ordinary part of life, and makes adjustments to

> include the addictive substance as a 'normal' part of the body's

> metabolism. That's why an alcohol drinking age of 21 makes sense.

> (Otherwise, IMHO age 21 is stupid, since you can sign up to die for

> your country at age 18.)

>

Jan, i have always wondered if this was the case...i concluded one day,

after trying to go off coffee for the nth time, that my body needs

caffeine just to feel 'normal'.

and so i have just given up; i give it its required amount in the

morning and then i'm fine for the rest of the day.

laura in nj

[Guest guest]

On 6/26/05, alangaud <alangaud@...> wrote:

> A child (ie someone who is still growing, so possibly up to age 20)

> can get addicted to a substance MUCH more quickly than an adult.

> That's because the growing body 'assumes' that the addictive substance

> is a necessary and ordinary part of life, and makes adjustments to

> include the addictive substance as a 'normal' part of the body's

> metabolism.

That's an interesting point, and makes sense. When I was in my early

teens, I found the idea of being addicted to something attractive, so

I think by 13 I was loading up on caffeine and nicotine in the

morning. I just remembered that when I was 15 I was drinking coffee

in the morning, one or two cups, when I had a landscaping job.

Caffeine has a relatively long-term affect (compared to, say,

nicotine) on metabolism and hormones including blood-sugar regulating

hormones, so I could see how it could pretty profoundly alter how the

body operates.

> That's why an alcohol drinking age of 21 makes sense.

> (Otherwise, IMHO age 21 is stupid, since you can sign up to die for

> your country at age 18.)

I disagree on several points. First, the drinking age does little if

anything to prevent underage drinking; second, unlike caffeine and

nicotine, alcohol has no potential to create dependence (except in a

small portion of the population, for whom the age of drinking is

probably irrelevant and even less impacted by the law); third,

teenagers (or adults) do not use alcohol to increase performance of

day-to-day tasks and therefore are unlikely to use it with the

frequency with which they'd use caffeine.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 6/26/05, laurainnewjersey <laurabusse@...> wrote:

> Have you ever read the book Caffeine Blues?

I've seen it, but I've never read it.

> fell in love with coffee in college...but didn't get hooked til i had

> a boring office job. some days the coffee was the only thing to look

> forward to, and certainly got me thru the day.

Interesting parallel. When I was in college classes, I wouldn't need

the caffeine if it was a discussion class and I was being active in

some way, but if it was passive for me (e.g. a lecture class) then I

would *physically* shut down, which the coffee would relieve. It

can't just be boredom though-- everybody gets bored, but I don't think

your body is supposed to shut down on you when you get bored.

> i've noticed that when i'm hooked on coffee, it affects me

> hormonally...menstrual cramps and breast tenderness. when i'm off

> caffeine this goes away.

Interesting... I wonder if that's a connection valid for many women

but never made...

> i've also notice that when i'm on caffeine, it's almost impossible to

> get up in the morning, and sleeping late becomes almost a necessity.

> if i have to get up early, i feel tired all day. i need 9 h sleep to

> feel 'normal' and be productive. when i'm off coffee i'm still tired

> in the morning but it's easier to get up.

Yes, I've noticed that too. I'm just making the connection recently though.

> summer i hate; the heat. Coffee helps pull me out of the summer

> doldrums. winter i love but i'm very tired and sleepy all winter and

> so coffee helps that.

It's very hot and humid here right now. I also find that caffeine

helps relieve heat-induced fatigue. I cheated and had a very small

bit of coffee this evening so I could clean my room. I tried

starting, but cleaning my room in the heat was making me want to

sleep. I had a little bit of coffee and I got it done though!

Chris

[Guest guest]

I also find that caffeine

> helps relieve heat-induced fatigue.

that's very interesting. although with me i think the heat makes me

feel depressed. (i feel like a prisoner of the a/c. but in winter i

don't feel like a prisoner of a heated house; i love to bundle up and

go outside. but the only motivation i have to go outside in summer

is to the pool or the beach.)

and so i think the coffee helps relieve the depression i feel in

summer...kinda like the depression i felt in that boring office job.

I cheated and had a very small

> bit of coffee this evening so I could clean my room. I tried

> starting, but cleaning my room in the heat was making me want to

> sleep. I had a little bit of coffee and I got it done though!

exactly. i rarely have the motivation to clean (my main job here!!)

so without coffee, forget it.

it seems that coffee somehow makes life more bearable... but then i

guess i could say that about wine, ice cream and such. but i don't

have wine or ice cream every day. but then i'm not dependent on how

wine or ice cream makes me FEEL.

i'm dependent on the 'energy' i get from coffee.

one thing i read was that coffee doesn't give us energy; it's the

body's reaction to a toxin, the body speeds up to get rid of it.

but i don't know if that's true; it doesn't make sense. not all

toxins have that effect.

anyway, this is a very interesting conversation.

i would LOVE to find the way to get off coffee for good...and never

miss it. but i don't expect that to ever happen.

laura in nj

[Guest guest]

> I've never been into coffee, but I will use a cup or two of black

tea when I want a pick-up. My two cents come only from what I've

read, for what they're worth: Dr. Cambell s (author

of The Milk Book and honorary WAPF board member

[www.realhealthnews.com]) thinks that moderate coffee consumption (2 -

3 cups a day) is good for one; Schwarzbein in The Schwarzbein

Principle II says it's a sign of hormonal imbalance (adrenal

burnout), it's self medicating, and that one should slowly wean

oneself off it (among other things). You might want to check out

Schwarzbein's second book.

>

>

>

, i read schwarzbein's first book; i didn't know she had a

second one out (apart from her recipe book).

in the first book all i remember her saying was that if you want to

lose wt. you have to go off the caffeine first and then wait six mo.

same with armour thyroid. then, if you follow her eating program,

including going off caffeine and armour thyroid, after 6 mo. you

should start losing wt.

i know caffeine depletes adrenals. maybe that's why coffee, after

i'm on it for awhile, several mo., it doesn't give me 'energy'

anymore; but without it i feel like a zombie.

but then...isn't that what drugs do? i've never even seen cocaine,

but my understanding is that cocaine addicts need it to feel normal

after using it for awhile.

also, i was on advil for a few days last week because of SEVERE pain

from a root canal infection...the first day or two i took one every 6

h or so. the 3rd or 4th day i had to take them every 2 h. The

morning of the dentist appt., the advil stopped working

completely!!! i couldn't believe it. i was in utter, total,

complete agony. it was worse than being in labor. which was awful.

so...i guess caffeine is just an addictive drug that creates a

dependence. and probably does harm.

still, and i hate to say this, i've given up trying to give it up.

laura in nj

[Guest guest]

I used to drink two espresso a day made with organic coffee and loved them,

but felt so much better after giving up coffee that I doubt I will go back

to it. At first I had to really drag myself through the days and missed

the caffeine, but after a few weeks I woke up feeling so much better

-clear-headed and more energised, rather than waking up feeling a bit groggy

and just hanging out for that first coffee. Also, two coffees wasn't

really enough for me once I got used to it, and I felt that I needed two

first thing in the morning, then another two spaced through the day, but

didn't want to consume that much caffeine. Now I only drink tea that is

naturally low in caffeine, and as long as I find the right tea, I enjoy the

taste as much as the coffee. While I was drinking coffee, I didn't enjoy

tea much because it seemed too weak and insipid in comparison, but once I

weaned myself off coffee I found I was really enjoying tea again. I've

only found two brands of the naturally low-caffeine tea that I really enjoy,

but at least I can drink a few cups a day of it.

> > I've never been into coffee, but I will use a cup or two of black

>tea when I want a pick-up. My two cents come only from what I've

>read, for what they're worth: Dr. Cambell s (author

>of The Milk Book and honorary WAPF board member

>[www.realhealthnews.com]) thinks that moderate coffee consumption (2 -

> 3 cups a day) is good for one; Schwarzbein in The Schwarzbein

>Principle II says it's a sign of hormonal imbalance (adrenal

>burnout), it's self medicating, and that one should slowly wean

>oneself off it (among other things). You might want to check out

>Schwarzbein's second book.

[Guest guest]

> I cheated and had a very small

> > bit of coffee this evening so I could clean my room. I tried

> > starting, but cleaning my room in the heat was making me want to

> > sleep. I had a little bit of coffee and I got it done though!

And here we are, all huddled in one room because it's the warmest room in

the house, and on the weekend I had to clean the ice off my car windscreen

before I could drive it.

[Guest guest]

You are addicted to caffiene and your adrenals are smacked because of

your lifestyle choices.

You, sir, have an " air " constitution and are prone to feeling

ungrounded. This feeling itself can be addictive and you will crave

those substances which enable that feeling.

You use coffee to sustain an unrealistic pace and then wonder that you

crash when you stop consuming it? You crash because you have a debt

to repay your body, a sleep debt of sorts.

The reason you felt better on the vco fast, I suspect, is because your

body was being oiled internally, which is a very soothing treatment

for air types. You must eat generous amounts of heavy-ish foods and

oil to keep yourself grounded or you will be prone to dryness--inside

and out--and anxiety.

This is what you were doing on the WD and I guess that's why you got

some relief, even though you continued to take caffiene. Later, you

began to eat poor quality foods and engage in fast living and

lascivious women, so, well, decline was inevitable.

Advice: get some unrefined sesame oil and give yourself a complete

massage over every inch of your body every morning. Pay careful

attention to the joints and go over them with a circular motion

several times. Leave on for fifteen minutes and then shower normally.

This should work wonders for you.

At twenty-three, sweet thing, your adrenals are in peril, please take

the necessary steps to repair them. Get off the caffiene and white

sugar and any other ungrounding substances that keep you in that spacy

state. Eat frequent small meals and take it easy at the gym. You

have repair work to do or you will just get deeper in the hole.

The Schwarzbein Principle does a very good job of explaining how it

works in simple language forsimple folks like me, although you could

probably read something more complex. I don't have any titles to offer.

Oh, and innewjersey, you are a water type and can drink coffee if

it helps you get moving in the morning. Your priority is to get past

your inertia.

B.

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris:

If you care to know, here's what Masson [i've quoted him

before on this list] writes about stimulants in general:

" If someone is very much attached to a stimulant, if the stimulant is

of good quality and taken in moderation, if the stimulant doesn't

seem to produce any clear trouble, and especially if it has been used

for more than say 10, 20, 30, 50 years on end, it's better not to do

away with it, because in that case the body will be disturbed. We

think that with time an organism will " invest " caffeine, theophylline

[tea], and theobromine [cacao] with a hormonal value or an action to

mimic the sympathetic or parasympathetic system. Thus, suppressing

the stimulant will lead not only to social and psychological

disturbance, but also to physical problems such as constipation,

bradycardia [slow heartbeat rate], hypotension, edemas, etc. "

I myself sip a large cup of coffee at breakfast, but milk-free. I may

also drink a little cup of coffee after each meal, but very seldom do

I take coffee between meals. Always in association with a meal.

Moreover I am told that nearly all centenarians have used a little

coffee or a little wine or a little chocolate during their lives.

So ...

Hope this helps a little.

José-

>

>

> You are addicted to caffiene and your adrenals are smacked because

of

> your lifestyle choices.

>

> You, sir, have an " air " constitution and are prone to feeling

> ungrounded. This feeling itself can be addictive and you will crave

> those substances which enable that feeling.

>

> You use coffee to sustain an unrealistic pace and then wonder that

you

> crash when you stop consuming it? You crash because you have a debt

> to repay your body, a sleep debt of sorts.

>

> The reason you felt better on the vco fast, I suspect, is because

your

> body was being oiled internally, which is a very soothing treatment

> for air types. You must eat generous amounts of heavy-ish foods and

> oil to keep yourself grounded or you will be prone to dryness--

inside

> and out--and anxiety.

>

> This is what you were doing on the WD and I guess that's why you got

> some relief, even though you continued to take caffiene. Later, you

> began to eat poor quality foods and engage in fast living and

> lascivious women, so, well, decline was inevitable.

>

> Advice: get some unrefined sesame oil and give yourself a complete

> massage over every inch of your body every morning. Pay careful

> attention to the joints and go over them with a circular motion

> several times. Leave on for fifteen minutes and then shower

normally.

> This should work wonders for you.

>

>

> At twenty-three, sweet thing, your adrenals are in peril, please

take

> the necessary steps to repair them. Get off the caffiene and white

> sugar and any other ungrounding substances that keep you in that

spacy

> state. Eat frequent small meals and take it easy at the gym. You

> have repair work to do or you will just get deeper in the hole.

>

> The Schwarzbein Principle does a very good job of explaining how it

> works in simple language forsimple folks like me, although you could

> probably read something more complex. I don't have any titles to

offer.

>

> Oh, and innewjersey, you are a water type and can drink coffee

if

> it helps you get moving in the morning. Your priority is to get

past

> your inertia.

> B.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " rda " <juliarda@h...>

wrote:

> > I cheated and had a very small

> > > bit of coffee this evening so I could clean my room. I tried

> > > starting, but cleaning my room in the heat was making me want to

> > > sleep. I had a little bit of coffee and I got it done though!

>

>

> And here we are, all huddled in one room because it's the warmest

room in

> the house, and on the weekend I had to clean the ice off my car

windscreen

> before I could drive it.

>

>

Hi :

Just a brief note.

We have no ice here, because we are so near the tropic and by the

seaside, but it is chilly and foggy especially in the morning. This

has been a very mild " winter " anyway. Now I am going to fix some

coffee because I must soon be leaving the house.

Best wishes,

José

[Guest guest]

As a non-coffee drinker (though I used to drink it very infrequently years ago),

I had an interesting experience last year with a chiropractor who loves coffee.

He has very expensive equipment to not only grind, but roast the beans in his

home. He maintains that the jitteriness and other reactions people have to

coffee are due to its being *old*, rather than the intrinsic properties of the

bean itself.

Basically, the volatile oils in the roasted coffee bean are thought to break

down after about 30 minutes, which is why he insists on fresh roasting each cup

right before he grinds and perks it.

I drank about 1/2 cup. It was quite good, and felt different than any other

coffee I've had.

Just FYI....

Nenah

[Guest guest]

On 6/27/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> You use coffee to sustain an unrealistic pace and then wonder that you

> crash when you stop consuming it? You crash because you have a debt

> to repay your body, a sleep debt of sorts.

That was my impression too-- a nutrient debt too, probably.

> The reason you felt better on the vco fast, I suspect, is because your

> body was being oiled internally, which is a very soothing treatment

> for air types. You must eat generous amounts of heavy-ish foods and

> oil to keep yourself grounded or you will be prone to dryness--inside

> and out--and anxiety.

What are heavyish foods? Like beef? That's a good description of my

psychological history. I always felt detached through my whole

teenage years and very early 20s, like I was high and couldn't and

never would come down. When I did NT (and bombarded myself with heavy

foods) I felt like I came down for the first time, and " grounded " was

precisely the effect I attributed to saturated fat, red meat, etc.

> This is what you were doing on the WD and I guess that's why you got

> some relief, even though you continued to take caffiene.

I was using light caffeine though. When I started the WD I was using

a few cups of green tea, which is much less caffeine than coffee.

> Later, you

> began to eat poor quality foods and engage in fast living and

> lascivious women, so, well, decline was inevitable.

Hmm...

> Advice: get some unrefined sesame oil and give yourself a complete

> massage over every inch of your body every morning. Pay careful

> attention to the joints and go over them with a circular motion

> several times. Leave on for fifteen minutes and then shower normally.

> This should work wonders for you.

I'll try that... I might have trouble getting my back.

> At twenty-three, sweet thing, your adrenals are in peril, please take

> the necessary steps to repair them. Get off the caffiene and white

> sugar and any other ungrounding substances that keep you in that spacy

> state. Eat frequent small meals and take it easy at the gym. You

> have repair work to do or you will just get deeper in the hole.

>

> The Schwarzbein Principle does a very good job of explaining how it

> works in simple language forsimple folks like me, although you could

> probably read something more complex. I don't have any titles to offer.

Ok, thanks.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> > That's why an alcohol drinking age of 21 makes sense.

> > (Otherwise, IMHO age 21 is stupid, since you can sign up to die

> > for your country at age 18.)

>

> I disagree on several points. First, the drinking age does little

> if anything to prevent underage drinking;

I disagree. That's like saying legalizing raw milk sales

will not increase the volume of sales. Some people will buy

alcohol/raw milk no matter the legal status, but many more will do

what is easy, socially acceptable (in their circle of friends), and

legal. The number of imbibers will go up if it is legal and available,

even if it's not zero when it's illegal.

> second, unlike caffeine and

> nicotine, alcohol has no potential to create dependence (except in a

> small portion of the population,

I need a good reference for that. I've always read that

ANYONE can become physically addicted to alcohol. How quickly and

'easily' that'll happen can vary tremendously from person to person.

> for whom the age of drinking is

> probably irrelevant and even less impacted by the law);

Those who are most genetically suseptible to becoming alcoholics have

the greatest reason to start drinking at a late age (if at all).

Drinking as a kid primes the metabolism to become an alcoholic more

easily. If it's already easy, and you make it easier, that's an

amazingly slippery slope...

I also don't think that those genetically suseptible to alcoholism

will be less impacted by drinking age laws. They don't crave alcohol

before they are exposed to it. They won't ignore drinking age laws any

more than average, unless they are in a social atmosphere (ie actively

alcoholic family members) that encourages it, which is likely.

> third,

> teenagers (or adults) do not use alcohol to increase performance of

> day-to-day tasks and therefore are unlikely to use it with the

> frequency with which they'd use caffeine.

Alcohol and recreational drugs are used differently from caffeine or

nicotine, but that doesn't mean they can't be abused or addictive.

Jan

[Guest guest]

>

> And here we are, all huddled in one room because it's the warmest

room in

> the house, and on the weekend I had to clean the ice off my car

windscreen

> before I could drive it.

>

>

wanna trade?

laura in nj

[Guest guest]

> As a non-coffee drinker (though I used to drink it very infrequently years

> ago), I had an interesting experience last year with a chiropractor who

> loves coffee. He has very expensive equipment to not only grind, but roast

> the beans in his home. He maintains that the jitteriness and other

> reactions people have to coffee are due to its being *old*, rather than

> the intrinsic properties of the bean itself.

>

> Basically, the volatile oils in the roasted coffee bean are thought to

> break down after about 30 minutes, which is why he insists on fresh

> roasting each cup right before he grinds and perks it.

> I drank about 1/2 cup. It was quite good, and felt different than any

> other coffee I've had.

>

> Just FYI....

>

> Nenah

There's something to that, Nenah. Have considered roasting and grinding my

own. Friend is a local roaster. 5 lb. bags I get are roasted that day. Store

it in freezer except for small amount in refrigerator for grinding at

brewing. What I get is an organic, shade grown, medium roast. Dark roasts

seem to fit a different metabolism than mine. They say medium roast is

higher in caffeine than dark. To my system dark roast is higher in acid. If

I have one cup of any other coffee than the one I use, I can tell either

immediately from acid or feeling off next morning.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>

> Oh, and innewjersey, you are a water type and can drink coffee if

> it helps you get moving in the morning.

, can you please explain 'air type', 'water type', etc.

Your priority is to get past

> your inertia.

> B.

absolutely but i don't know how. went to see a wapf friendly dr. in

d.c. the beginning of the year for a few mo....i have a somewhat low

thyroid which probably explains a lot but he gave me tons of

supplements which didn't seem to help and he didn't tell me how to eat.

so am trying to figure my next step...

exercise helps me the most. i DO exercise...but not every day. i

would be exhausted.

i go out for 1 hr bike rides every other day when i can.

laura in nj

[Guest guest]

Re: My experience with caffeine

> He maintains that the jitteriness and other

> reactions people have to coffee are due to its being *old*, rather than

> the intrinsic properties of the bean itself.

> Basically, the volatile oils in the roasted coffee bean are thought to

> break down after about 30 minutes, which is why he insists on fresh

> roasting each cup right before he grinds and perks it.

There's something to that, Nenah. Have considered roasting and grinding my

own. Friend is a local roaster. 5 lb. bags I get are roasted that day. Store

it in freezer except for small amount in refrigerator for grinding at

brewing. What I get is an organic, shade grown, medium roast. Dark roasts

seem to fit a different metabolism than mine. They say medium roast is

higher in caffeine than dark. To my system dark roast is higher in acid. If

I have one cup of any other coffee than the one I use, I can tell either

immediately from acid or feeling off next morning.

Wanita

====================

As your experience so eloquently shows, Wanita, everyone is so different --

in constitution, responses, tastes, etc. As they say, it's what makes the

world go round. (Does that mean that if everyone followed the same diet, the

world would be flat? ;-)

Best,

Nenah

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Nenah Sylver " <nenah@b...>

wrote:

> Re: My experience with caffeine

>

> > He maintains that the jitteriness and other

> > reactions people have to coffee are due to its being *old*,

rather than

> > the intrinsic properties of the bean itself.

> > Basically, the volatile oils in the roasted coffee bean are

thought to

> > break down after about 30 minutes, which is why he insists on

fresh

> > roasting each cup right before he grinds and perks it.

>

> There's something to that, Nenah. Have considered roasting and

grinding my

> own. Friend is a local roaster. 5 lb. bags I get are roasted that

day. Store

> it in freezer except for small amount in refrigerator for grinding

at

> brewing. What I get is an organic, shade grown, medium roast. Dark

roasts

> seem to fit a different metabolism than mine. They say medium roast

is

> higher in caffeine than dark. To my system dark roast is higher in

acid. If

> I have one cup of any other coffee than the one I use, I can tell

either

> immediately from acid or feeling off next morning.

>

> Wanita

>

> ====================

> As your experience so eloquently shows, Wanita, everyone is so

different --

> in constitution, responses, tastes, etc. As they say, it's what

makes the

> world go round. (Does that mean that if everyone followed the same

diet, the

> world would be flat? ;-)

>

> Best,

> Nenah

I agree. We have two sayings here that may apply: " É preciso um pouco

de tudo para fazer o mundo " and " Que seria do verde se todos

gostassem do amarelo? " I don`t know the English equivalents, but the

literal meaning is:

We need a little bit of everything to make the world.

What would happen to green if everybody only liked yellow?

JC

[Guest guest]

On 6/27/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> Advice: get some unrefined sesame oil and give yourself a complete

> massage over every inch of your body every morning. Pay careful

> attention to the joints and go over them with a circular motion

> several times. Leave on for fifteen minutes and then shower normally.

> This should work wonders for you.

I did this today. My first reaction was that it was invigorating. I

don't know if there is something invigorating in the sesame oil or if

it was from rubbing it in and getting my body going.

What's the reasoning for using the sesame oil?

Chris

[Guest guest]

I usually have about 3 days of headaches whenever I get weaned off

caffeine.

I can usually stay off it when I get weaned.

When I start drinking coffee again, it's because I choose to, for

another reason.

But I can remember a time when I seemed _psychologically_ addicted to

the caffeine. The urge seemed to always come at the same time of day,

and it when I had a job that was less than 100% engrossing.

I believe I have noticed that if I take the day off or go on vacation

for several days, I don't think to drink coffee on the same schedule as

usual, and I don't have the same cravings.

[Guest guest]

> I did this today. My first reaction was that it was invigorating. I

> don't know if there is something invigorating in the sesame oil or if

> it was from rubbing it in and getting my body going.

>

> What's the reasoning for using the sesame oil?

The sesame oil is particularly good for your constitution, being heavy

and warm. Being unrefined, it will penetrate easily into the skin.

In Ayurveda, the seven layers of skin correspond to the seven bodily

tissues so massaging yourself with nutritive oil will nourish and

lubricate your internal environment as well. This is crucial for the

air/wind type, who is so prone to tissue dryness.

I expected it would be more soothing than invigorating, but a good,

wholesome, invigoration is surely a positive thing for you. Showering

after is to relax the body and promote the penetration of the oil, not

to scrub it off, so take it easy with the soap and let the oil linger

on the skin. You won't need lotion later.

Re: heavy foods, yes, animal flesh is considered heavy and warm.

The heaviest coming from ruminants in temperate climates. It's

considered very grounding--to the point of inertia--and body building.

B.

[Guest guest]

> , can you please explain 'air type', 'water type', etc.

Hi ,

There's a good explanation here:

http://ayurveda.com/online%20resource/intro_ayurveda.pdf

> exercise helps me the most. i DO exercise...but not every day. i

> would be exhausted.

Exercise is top priority for you. Also, getting out of bed and moving

around before 6 AM and no daytime sleeping! Unfortunately, the cow

milk promotes your innate complacency. You can improve the situation

by heating the milk and adding some ginger or other pungent spice and

maybe a little honey when it's off the heat, if you can't give it up.

Even better, switch to goat milk, if you can, and don't drink so much.

And no wheat BTW. Here's a list of the foods to eat:

http://ayurveda.com/online%20resource/food_guidelines.pdf

You want to focus on pungent, astringent and bitter tastes in food, to

warm and dry and lighten all that heavy dampness. Raw cow dairy is

about as damp/cool/wet as it gets.

I am this type, too. It's funny, how you said you needed the ND to

tell you what to eat because that's how we are, we don't create or

lead so much as need someone to tell us what we need to do--then we're

indefatigable.

B.

[Guest guest]

On 6/27/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> I expected it would be more soothing than invigorating, but a good,

> wholesome, invigoration is surely a positive thing for you. Showering

> after is to relax the body and promote the penetration of the oil, not

> to scrub it off, so take it easy with the soap and let the oil linger

> on the skin. You won't need lotion later.

Oh... I soaped up well with the intention of washing it off. I think

a lot stayed anyway, as I keep smelling that nutty sesame smell.

Chris