RE: Re: no carb questions

[Guest guest]

>> ** You didn't say how long, but it's alright, don't worry. I see you

are fine. <<

A little over two years now. I have never felt better and have lost 130

pounds.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

Christie,

>

>A little over two years now. I have never felt better and have lost 130

>pounds.

>

Congratulations on your success and perseverance on a carb controlled

diet. I have a question concerning exercise: do you strength train? If

so, have you noticed any problems in retaining strength to lift heavy

weights on Atkins' Diet? I ask because I have noticed problems in

strength on low carb. By that, I mean I just don't have the umph to

lift heavy weights for as many reps on low carb (sorry too be so

technical <g>). However, now that I am running 25 miles a week, I find

no concern about endurance activities and umph. Admittedly, I have been

eating maybe more carbs than I was when I was doing serious strength

more frequently (about 50-70g/day ave). I think I will experiment with

endurance on <40 grams a day net carb. You mentioned percentage of

carbs before: would you mind giving a gram estimate of carbs a day and

activity level?

Thanks,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> Congratulations on your success and perseverance on a carb controlled

> diet.

Thank you!

> I have a question concerning exercise: do you strength train? If

> so, have you noticed any problems in retaining strength to lift heavy

> weights on Atkins' Diet?

I do strength train, although I took a hiatus for a while to see if it would

help my chronic back problem (it didn't, so I started again). I do heavy

weights, VERY VERY low reps. However, I just work out at home.

> You mentioned percentage of

> carbs before: would you mind giving a gram estimate of carbs a day and

> activity level?

I eat around 35 grams of non-fiber carbs a day, and in the rnage of 20-25

grams of fiber carbs.

I am moderately active. I do 5-15 minutes of yoga each morning, take an

occasional one hour yoga class, walk my dogs twice a day for about half an

hour, garden, clean the house, and three times a week I lift weights for ten

minutes.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:11:05 -0500

Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

>have you noticed any problems in retaining strength to lift heavy

> weights on Atkins' Diet? I ask because I have noticed problems in

> strength on low carb. By that, I mean I just don't have the umph to

> lift heavy weights for as many reps on low carb (sorry too be so

> technical <g>). However, now that I am running 25 miles a week, I find

> no concern about endurance activities and umph.

This is the problem I ran into with the Atkins diet and one of the huge

differences I noticed between it and the Warrior Diet and why I

eventually gave up on Atkins for me (pun intended).

I say for me because I think for many people who do moderate or less

exercise Atkins is just fine. I think once you get beyond that point it

can potentially become problematic. There seems to be quite a bit of

anecdotal evidence that most athletes have a difficult time on the

popular low carb regimens. I know I did. And its not really about weight

at that point, its about energy for athletics. Someone doing intense

exercise can get to the point where it seems a misnomer to call Atkins

low carb, even though technically they are following the Atkins for Life

approach, cuz with enough activity the carb level will not be low.

Most athletes who stick with low carb end up adopting a cyclical

ketogenic style diet. Basically it is where you are very to moderately

low carb for 5 or 6 days and then the exact opposite for 1 or 2 days.

Should I ever go back to low carbing (which I may do if I eventually

find that huge nighttime feasts interfere with other nighttime

activities...hehehe) this is the approach I will adopt once again.

Barry Groves of Second Opinion seems to think it takes about 6 months

for an athlete to make the switch where he is as efficient and energetic

on low carb as he was otherwise. I never found that to be case.

When I went on the Warrior Diet my energy and strength levels increased

dramatically. It was amazing, it really was. I think Ori's conceptual

theories are quite good although his actual diet definitely needs to be

WAP'ified.

I don't know if your strength issues are just because your body hasn't

had long enough to adjust a la Barry Groves, or if its a more long term

activity issue, but I am definitely in the camp that believes for more

intense athletic/exercise endeavors, you need more carbs than the

popular regimens tend to allow for.

" We are in the end talking about groups supporting

the only thing that the state does: namely roughing

people up through violence and threats of violence.

That's what every line of every regulation comes

down to. That's the meaning of every tax. That's

the whole upshot of every tariff, expenditure,

prohibition, and bomb. It all amounts to increased

use of violence in society. Strip away the banners,

songs, uniforms, and speeches: that's all that the

state really is. "

Lew Rockwell

[Guest guest]

Christie,

>I do strength train, although I took a hiatus for a while to see if it would

>help my chronic back problem (it didn't, so I started again). I do heavy

>weights, VERY VERY low reps. However, I just work out at home.

>

>

A home workout can be just about as effective as a gym workout. I take

it you have had no issues with lifting the heavier weights during low

carb eating.

>I eat around 35 grams of non-fiber carbs a day, and in the rnage of 20-25

>grams of fiber carbs.

>

>I am moderately active. I do 5-15 minutes of yoga each morning, take an

>occasional one hour yoga class, walk my dogs twice a day for about half an

>hour, garden, clean the house, and three times a week I lift weights for ten

>minutes.

>

Thanks for the breakdown of carbs and exercise. It's really helpful to

try and pinpoint what is going on with me. It just seems that I can run

an hour with no lack of stamina and leg strength (well, probably more

like muscle endurance from the legs), but I don't have the strength to

do 2 sets of 10 reps with pretty heavy weights when I am really low

carb. Perhaps I should just keep the lifting volume low and not worry.

I really need to get my butt back to yoga practice too

Deanna

[Guest guest]

,

>This is the problem I ran into with the Atkins diet and one of the huge

>differences I noticed between it and the Warrior Diet and why I

>eventually gave up on Atkins for me (pun intended).

>

>

Interesting. I do well with a warrior approach of less eating until

night generally too; not that I always follow it, though.

>I say for me because I think for many people who do moderate or less

>exercise Atkins is just fine. I think once you get beyond that point it

>can potentially become problematic. There seems to be quite a bit of

>anecdotal evidence that most athletes have a difficult time on the

>popular low carb regimens. I know I did. And its not really about weight

>at that point, its about energy for athletics. Someone doing intense

>exercise can get to the point where it seems a misnomer to call Atkins

>low carb, even though technically they are following the Atkins for Life

>approach, cuz with enough activity the carb level will not be low.

>

>

I am wondering if it's not just a difference in anaerobic vs. aerobic

exercise? Sprinters, sports players, weight lifters do need that

glycogen to perform well. Distance runners might just make it okay with

less carbs in general, especially if they are well-trained. I guess

since I am doing more of endurance aerobic activity, it is just

naturally easier, as I have been doing it off and on for over half my

life. But then, I may not be so low as I think on eating carbs. I

definitely am training a whole lot more in terms of energy expenditure

than I have for some time.

>Barry Groves of Second Opinion seems to think it takes about 6 months

>for an athlete to make the switch where he is as efficient and energetic

>on low carb as he was otherwise. I never found that to be case.

>

>

Perhaps that is true for some, maybe not all. Maybe metabolic type fits

in somewhere. And maybe the level and time training figures in too,

along with type of athletics involved.

>When I went on the Warrior Diet my energy and strength levels increased

>dramatically. It was amazing, it really was. I think Ori's conceptual

>theories are quite good although his actual diet definitely needs to be

>WAP'ified.

>

>

Isn't he selling warrior bars and such, much like what happened at Atkins?

>I don't know if your strength issues are just because your body hasn't

>had long enough to adjust a la Barry Groves, or if its a more long term

>activity issue, but I am definitely in the camp that believes for more

>intense athletic/exercise endeavors, you need more carbs than the

>popular regimens tend to allow for.

>

>

>

I've been consistently pretty low/moderate carb for well over a year.

That said, I slide in and out of ketosis, cuz I like lots of veggies and

summer fruit. I definitely think it is a matter of intensity involved,

at least partly. If someone is working above the anaerobic threshold,

that person will need glycogen in order to perform. For me, it may just

be a simple matter of getting more carbs the night before I lift, a la

cycling.

Hey , you have much experience fasting. What's the difference in

activity/strength fasting as compared with low carb eating? I think I

remember you saying you always rock on with training while fasting.

Perhaps it is just a prolonged warrior thingy. I'd appreciate knowing

what you think.

Bueno,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna,

> I have a question concerning exercise: do you strength

> train? If

> so, have you noticed any problems in retaining strength to lift heavy

> weights on Atkins' Diet? I ask because I have noticed problems in

> strength on low carb. By that, I mean I just don't have the umph to

> lift heavy weights for as many reps on low carb (sorry too be so

> technical <g>).

I'm not Christie but I do have some experience with this.

I started lifting weights for the first time in my life at age 40 at the

same time I went on the Zone diet. Over the next 9 months I lost 90 pounds

and got a whole lot stronger. Unfortunately, I lost 10 pounds or so of lean

body mass during that time as I was losing bodyweight too quickly due to

insufficient caloric intake. After that I started searching for the proper

diet to help me re-gain muscle mass. Even though Barry Sears touts the Zone

as the best diet for that I discovered that it wasn't working for me. That

lead to my first round of working with a low carb diet about 15 months after

starting the Zone. I did 16 weeks of a modified Atkins beginning in April

of 2003.

I immediately experienced the sluggish/no energy feeling that everyone

reports when they shift to low carb. It actually lasted for about 8 to 10

weeks before I broke through on the other side. Even then, after getting

over the sluggishness, I found that my energy was of a different nature --

it wasn't the " buzzy " carb energy that I would experience in the gym but a

very stable and solid kind of energy. Slower.

The most interesting thing about all of this was that after the 16 week

cycle was over I went back through my lifting journal and discovered that I

was actually getting significantly stronger throughout the entire workout

cycle even though I actually felt like death. My weights were increasing

and I didn't even realize it at the time. That was a huge surprise to me

and helped my understand why most bodybuilder/weightlifters never get

through the transition to low carb -- it just _feels_ wrong. Despite that,

in my case at least, it was actually making me stronger.

Ron

[Guest guest]

>>> I have noticed problems in

> strength on low carb. <g>). >>>>>>

>>> I immediately experienced the sluggish/no energy feeling that everyone

reports when they shift to low carb. Ron >

I think that what you're both feeling is your " real " adrenal function, not

the hyped up (through glucose) version of your adrenals.. I'd take it as a

hint to back off and build more slowly.

Case in point: I had a very physical job most of my life. The only girl on a

network TV production crew, I'd often work 18 hours straight climbing up or

under buildings to string cable and then direct a live TV show for hours and

then strike and go home. I'd lift weights between shifts (crazy...) When,

many years later, I switched to low carb as a result of candida overgrowth,

I noticed a huge dropoff in energy for everything including exercise. But I

still pushed myself thinking that the more energy I *made* the more energy I

would *have*. (Now I see energy as a limited quantity -- to be parceled out

here or there as need dictates.)

Anyway, I think that when you go low carb you are depriving your body of a

glucose infusion (a fix!) that shoots up cortisol levels and makes your

adrenal glands kick into gear and yes it will make you stronger, more

intense. Anyway, all that's fine it's just that if your body gets used to

regularly tapping into its " back-up " adrenal reserves through continual

over-use and/or carbo loading before weight training or work, after a while

you can have the terrible experience I had -- complete adrenal burnout. (I'm

probably an extreme case you see where I'm going with this?)

Take it from me, when you use up your reserves there is just nowhere to go

for energy even in an emergency. Not to mention the ability of your body to

make things like enzymes...

So, again, if I were you guys I'd listen to your body and learn to adapt to

your (correct) lowered energy level and try to build strength gradually.

Rest and be kind to those adrenals!

~Robin who learned the hard way...

Ps. Actually I happen to think that's why the Warrior Diet works so well

for people -- the body experiences a mini-starvation period (during the

battle!) and so the adrenals are revved up and burn more calories.

[Guest guest]

Ron,

>I'm not Christie but I do have some experience with this.

>

Tsalright, we all can't be Christie <g>.

>

>

>I started lifting weights for the first time in my life at age 40 at the

>same time I went on the Zone diet. Over the next 9 months I lost 90 pounds

>and got a whole lot stronger. Unfortunately, I lost 10 pounds or so of lean

>body mass during that time as I was losing bodyweight too quickly due to

>insufficient caloric intake. After that I started searching for the proper

>diet to help me re-gain muscle mass. Even though Barry Sears touts the Zone

>as the best diet for that I discovered that it wasn't working for me. That

>lead to my first round of working with a low carb diet about 15 months after

>starting the Zone. I did 16 weeks of a modified Atkins beginning in April

>of 2003.

>

>

How did you modify Atkins - more carbs?

>I immediately experienced the sluggish/no energy feeling that everyone

>reports when they shift to low carb. It actually lasted for about 8 to 10

>weeks before I broke through on the other side. Even then, after getting

>over the sluggishness, I found that my energy was of a different nature --

>it wasn't the " buzzy " carb energy that I would experience in the gym but a

>very stable and solid kind of energy. Slower.

>

>

Amazing you lasted so long even with such results, but ...YES!!! Nail

on the head, ding ding ding! It's a constant solid energy that is not

fwingy and high, but ever steady. I didn't take as long to adapt at the

beginning with pretty low carb (<30 g/day), just 3 days. I am

borderline protein/mixed carb metabolically with A type blood, btw.

>The most interesting thing about all of this was that after the 16 week

>cycle was over I went back through my lifting journal and discovered that I

>was actually getting significantly stronger throughout the entire workout

>cycle even though I actually felt like death. My weights were increasing

>and I didn't even realize it at the time. That was a huge surprise to me

>and helped my understand why most bodybuilder/weightlifters never get

>through the transition to low carb -- it just _feels_ wrong. Despite that,

>in my case at least, it was actually making me stronger.

>

>Ron

>

Good for you for keeping the journal, it's helpful. Perhaps it is just

the steady energy that makes it seem like you are going nowhere with

strength training, even though you are. Very interesting.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>> I don't have the strength to

do 2 sets of 10 reps with pretty heavy weights when I am really low

carb. Perhaps I should just keep the lifting volume low and not worry. <<

If I could do 10 reps, I'd think my weight was too low. I rarely can do more

than 5 reps, and I've been known to lift something so heavy two reps was it.

I am too lazy to lift lighter than that. <G>

I had to stay in a hotel recently and went down and used their gym. OH I

want a home weight room! It was really fun. I would join a gym but the

nearest one is an hour away and it's just not gonna happen.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna,

> How did you modify Atkins - more carbs?

Yes. Zero starch of any kind but just enough veggies and fruit to keep me

out of ketosis.

> >I immediately experienced the sluggish/no energy feeling

> that everyone

> >reports when they shift to low carb. It actually lasted for

> about 8 to 10

> >weeks before I broke through on the other side. Even then,

> after getting

> >over the sluggishness, I found that my energy was of a

> different nature --

> >it wasn't the " buzzy " carb energy that I would experience in

> the gym but a

> >very stable and solid kind of energy. Slower.

> >

> >

> Amazing you lasted so long even with such results,

That was one of the most powerful things I ever did, actually. Picking a

program that went against my orthodox Zone beliefs and sticking with it long

enough to allow my body to fully adapt taught me much about how to approach

just about anything. Starting a diet and giving up in the middle of the

transition is pretty useless. I actually did the same thing with a couple

of other programs over the past years and learned a lot from them too. I

just started a 16 week cycle of the Warrior Diet two weeks ago. The saga

continues....

> but

> ...YES!!! Nail

> on the head, ding ding ding! It's a constant solid energy

> that is not

> fwingy and high, but ever steady. I didn't take as long to

> adapt at the

> beginning with pretty low carb (<30 g/day), just 3 days. I am

> borderline protein/mixed carb metabolically with A type blood, btw.

Hmm. Interesting. I'm a very hard protein type with B type blood. I

suspect that my adaptation difficulty was more related to gluten intolerance

and withdrawal than it was anything else.

As to the energy -- I still struggle with a desire for the buzzy energy. I

love that " up " " hit " feeling and just have a hell of a time not experiencing

it. Hence my ongoing battle with the evil coffee.

> Good for you for keeping the journal, it's helpful. Perhaps

> it is just

> the steady energy that makes it seem like you are going nowhere with

> strength training, even though you are. Very interesting.

>

My belief is that it's the contrast with how you remembered that you felt.

Your body remembers that high energy feeling but underneath all of that you

are opening up the raw power that fat metabolism provides for you. It just

doesn't feel right as you transition but if you can last long enough through

the process the memory fades and your new state becomes the correct state.

Ron

[Guest guest]

> As to the energy -- I still struggle with a desire for the buzzy energy.

> I

> love that " up " " hit " feeling and just have a hell of a time not

> experiencing

> it. Hence my ongoing battle with the evil coffee.

> Ron

Oh, yah! Trick is a good body buzz without too much head buzz to scatter.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>Hmm. Interesting. I'm a very hard protein type with B type blood. I

>suspect that my adaptation difficulty was more related to gluten intolerance

>and withdrawal than it was anything else.

>

>

Hi Ron,

You know, I wonder about about the metabolic questionnaire I did on

mercola.com, more than once. It seems to me that a person's present

diet fits in somewhere, whether or not it is the ideal diet for

him/her. Maybe I need the book. I know the sour vinegar question has

some bearing on protein. Why would liking sour (kimchi comes to mind)

be more of a mixed profile? I seem to function best on the protein diet

with some summer berries and melon. I dunno.

>As to the energy -- I still struggle with a desire for the buzzy energy. I

>love that " up " " hit " feeling and just have a hell of a time not experiencing

>it. Hence my ongoing battle with the evil coffee.

>

You know it, dude. Uh, at 4:30 am I have to have me java to psyche up

for the run that commences most days between 5:30 and 6 am. It's true

heart attacks happen first thing in the morning when the heart goes from

sleep to wake. However, those of us with resting heart rates <60 bpm

and blood pressure of 90/50 have little to worry about in that

department. Heck, I figure my coffee helps with the transition from

sleep to track/trail - making the ticker tick more - especially since I

have ceased walking the first 1/4 mile (400 meters). And to brag, I did

speed work for two miles today after my 3 mile tempo, averaging 6:47

minutes/mile on the 4 x 400 m I did. Not record-breaking, but I am only

about 6 weeks back in the swing.

Ron, do you perform any intense cardio? Talk about buzzy high energy,

running becomes this addictive endeavor that can't be beat. It gives me

skull tingling excitement at times (much more intensely than kapalabhati

pranayama). In my experience of performing regular cardiopulmonary

exercise regularly for over 24 years, nothing beats running for lung

capacity increases and buzzy tingly highs ... and sheer addiction to the

act itself.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna,

> You know, I wonder about about the metabolic questionnaire I did on

> mercola.com, more than once. It seems to me that a person's present

> diet fits in somewhere, whether or not it is the ideal diet for

> him/her.

I agree with you if I am understanding you correctly. Why do we eat the

foods that we do? If we eliminate foods to which we are allergic would we

automatically begin to be attracted to the correct foods? My diet now is so

vastly different than what it was a mere year ago I can hardly believe it.

And I don't eat purely off of the protein type charts in Wolcott's book

either. I like broccoli way too much to give it up.

> Maybe I need the book.

My experience with the book was not that great. I read it after hearing

about it on Mercola's website and I came away unconvinced. It wasn't until

I actually consulted with two Metabolic Typing experts that it started to

make sense. The book itself is not written well enough to be convincing on

its own, IMO. Perhaps because you have heard so much about it here it will

be more persuasive and fill in some blanks for you.

>I know the sour vinegar

> question has

> some bearing on protein. Why would liking sour (kimchi comes

> to mind)

> be more of a mixed profile? I seem to function best on the

> protein diet

> with some summer berries and melon. I dunno.

See -- I didn't even recall that the sour issue was indicative of mixed

type. I eat sour every day. Sauerkraut, kefir, olives, heavily fermented

and unsweetened fruit juice kefirs.

One of the most powerful ideas in the book is that you must journal every

meal. An hour after the meal you look at how you feel based on a set series

of criteria. The correct food for that meal was the food that makes you

feel right. That simple.

>

> >As to the energy -- I still struggle with a desire for the

> buzzy energy. I

> >love that " up " " hit " feeling and just have a hell of a time

> not experiencing

> >it. Hence my ongoing battle with the evil coffee.

> >

> You know it, dude. Uh, at 4:30 am I have to have me java to

> psyche up

> for the run that commences most days between 5:30 and 6 am.

> It's true

> heart attacks happen first thing in the morning when the

> heart goes from

> sleep to wake. However, those of us with resting heart rates <60 bpm

> and blood pressure of 90/50 have little to worry about in that

> department. Heck, I figure my coffee helps with the transition from

> sleep to track/trail - making the ticker tick more -

Now that was thing of beauty! How do they say it? Man is the rationalizing

animal? LOL.

> especially since I

> have ceased walking the first 1/4 mile (400 meters). And to

> brag, I did

> speed work for two miles today after my 3 mile tempo, averaging 6:47

> minutes/mile on the 4 x 400 m I did. Not record-breaking,

> but I am only

> about 6 weeks back in the swing.

You're a stud. I'm halfway through week three of the first exercise I've

done since my two shoulder surgeries in the Spring. I'd been feeling like a

lunk and just couldn't get moving. I already feel so much better but I'm

sure not going to tell you about my lame-O workouts. Starting easy.....

>

> Ron, do you perform any intense cardio? Talk about buzzy

> high energy,

> running becomes this addictive endeavor that can't be beat.

> It gives me

> skull tingling excitement at times (much more intensely than

> kapalabhati

> pranayama). In my experience of performing regular cardiopulmonary

> exercise regularly for over 24 years, nothing beats running for lung

> capacity increases and buzzy tingly highs ... and sheer

> addiction to the

> act itself.

So funny that you mention this. I have been running off and on since 1979

and I have experienced runner's high exactly twice. Both times when I was

17. It's been mostly torture other than that. I have no endurance and

running becomes uncomfortable for me pretty quickly after starting. The

longest that I've ever consistently run at a time was 3 miles. Most of my

running career has been short runs of about 2 miles. The notion of running

for an entire day as you mentioned in another post is not even a possibility

for me. Can't imagine it. I've never been able to figure this out. Is it

mental? Is it physical? To look at me I look like the picture of health.

Why can't I run long distance? God knows that I've tried to work up to it.

I did manage to discover over the past three years that I actually do enjoy

the torture of a good weightlifting workout, though. So there is some hope.

Ron

[Guest guest]

> Oh, yah! Trick is a good body buzz without too much head buzz

> to scatter.

>

Yes, exactly. And my dose has to be pretty precise to pull that one off.

Always a little bit less than I want....

Ron

[Guest guest]

Hey Ron,

>I agree with you if I am understanding you correctly. Why do we eat the

>foods that we do? If we eliminate foods to which we are allergic would we

>automatically begin to be attracted to the correct foods? My diet now is so

>vastly different than what it was a mere year ago I can hardly believe it.

>And I don't eat purely off of the protein type charts in Wolcott's book

>either. I like broccoli way too much to give it up.

>

>

Ultimately, an eating plan has to be unique for the individual, just as

all other needs and preferences are.

>My experience with the book was not that great. I read it after hearing

>about it on Mercola's website and I came away unconvinced. It wasn't until

>I actually consulted with two Metabolic Typing experts that it started to

>make sense. The book itself is not written well enough to be convincing on

>its own, IMO. Perhaps because you have heard so much about it here it will

>be more persuasive and fill in some blanks for you.

>

>

Oh, then maybe I don't need the book. I buy too many as it is. :-)

>See -- I didn't even recall that the sour issue was indicative of mixed

>type. I eat sour every day. Sauerkraut, kefir, olives, heavily fermented

>and unsweetened fruit juice kefirs.

>

>

Well, I went through that test on mercola.com several times tweaking one

factor (question) only each time and saw the resulting change in

metabolic type. Liking pickles/vinegar takes you away from protein

type, morning hunger brings you closer to protein, iirc.

>You're a stud. I'm halfway through week three of the first exercise I've

>done since my two shoulder surgeries in the Spring. I'd been feeling like a

>lunk and just couldn't get moving. I already feel so much better but I'm

>sure not going to tell you about my lame-O workouts. Starting easy.....

>

>

Okay, I'll take that as a compliment, hee hee. I remember now that you

had surgery. How is the shoulder doing now? Do you have full rom

without issue. I forget now what your problem was. But on the lame-o

workouts: Now now, we aren't in any fitness contest, cuz heck, I dropped

that ball a long time ago <g>. And besides, we all have interests and

uniqueness. You should be proud of yourself for embarking on a

progressively increased intensity workout; starting off easy is what

more people should do, and they wouldn't injure or burn themselves out

on exercise. Are you doing strength training/rehabilitation for the

shoulder, btw?

>So funny that you mention this. I have been running off and on since 1979

>and I have experienced runner's high exactly twice. Both times when I was

>17. It's been mostly torture other than that. I have no endurance and

>running becomes uncomfortable for me pretty quickly after starting. The

>longest that I've ever consistently run at a time was 3 miles. Most of my

>running career has been short runs of about 2 miles. The notion of running

>for an entire day as you mentioned in another post is not even a possibility

>for me. Can't imagine it. I've never been able to figure this out. Is it

>mental? Is it physical? To look at me I look like the picture of health.

>Why can't I run long distance? God knows that I've tried to work up to it.

>

>

You may just have a high percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers. It's

a genetic thing. Do you enjoy power lifting perchance? I'd say, run

the short distance that feels good, but go fast.

There's a guy that shows up at the track most days I am there. He runs

3-4 laps and leaves. I think, " Why does he drive here to run a mile or

less? " But he's quick and consistent, AND he's off his butt before

work, so more power to him.

I'm a mid-distance gal myself, in theory anyway, lol. I have no desire

to run anything farther than a half marathon (13.1 miles/21 km). Ten km

is more my preference for distance once I get in the swing.

>

>I did manage to discover over the past three years that I actually do enjoy

>the torture of a good weightlifting workout, though. So there is some hope.

>

>Ron

>

See, it's all in the preference and maybe the percentage of white muscle

fibers. There is always hope, and if you find weight lifting to be the

trigger tripper for you, then go with it. Next year it might be

canoing, who knows?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> Oh, then maybe I don't need the book. I buy too many as it is. :-)

>

>>See -- I didn't even recall that the sour issue was indicative of mixed

>>type. I eat sour every day. Sauerkraut, kefir, olives, heavily fermented

>>and unsweetened fruit juice kefirs.

>>

> Well, I went through that test on mercola.com several times tweaking one

> factor (question) only each time and saw the resulting change in

> metabolic type. Liking pickles/vinegar takes you away from protein

> type, morning hunger brings you closer to protein, iirc.

Hey Deanna,

Out of all the metabolic typing books I have the hardest time with MTD,

mostly because of the science. Just reread the researcher overviews again in

Metabolic Man, 10,000 Years from Eden. Some are the opposite from other

researchers and he calls that. What I like about this book is you can get a

good idea what type you are from it without the MTD or with other tests like

niacin. Body type, doshas help refine. This book and Rudolph Wiley's

Biobalance are my suggestions. Don't want the cost, interlibrary loan should

find them. 's books, both out of print, Nutrition and Your Mind and

Personality Strength and Psychochemical Energy are excellent too.

There is some controversy on the metabolic typing forum at curezone.com

about competing MT researchers changing one thing from another's so the

other wouldn't work, iirc. and Wiley didn't have this issue. Wiley

refined the neutral point to hundreths in blood plasma ph testing to verify

's work.

Sour in Metabolic Man is only discussed with doshas. Iirc, you're pitta

dominant like my dh. Says too much salty, sour, pungent, spicy or fermented

foods, hot, light, oily foods, too much food are dietary negatives.

Positives, cool, warm, not steamy hot. Needs bitter, sweet, astringent foods

like salads, less butter/fat, cool drinks, balanced by cold, heavy, dry

foods. Unfortunately, there's loose notes of foods in these groups. Kefir is

cold, cabbage dry, beef heavy.

Don't think I answered the morning hunger question like a protein type. Can

say that even with coffee in the morning, added fat, protein in my diet and

being gf-cf that when I do get hungry a few hours after I wake up that it's

real hunger I didn't have before. Protein, fat breakfast works best.

Wiley found many women to be two types within the month, usually on the acid

to more alkaline side which is MTD's protein to mixed end. A troubled boy

was found to be acid to alkaline within a day and ate the three diets for

different meals each day. Don't think the MTD book test can determine

variable metabolisms. Fine tuning with how you feel can.

Wanita

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Iirc,

> you're pitta

> dominant like my dh.

Great post, Wanita. You are storehouse of info.

Cool website found on quick Google search prompted by your post:

http://www.aworldofgoodhealth.com/doshaquiz.htm

I'm strongly pitta.

Ron

[Guest guest]

>I'm strongly pitta.

>

>Ron

>

That's why I like you.

[Guest guest]

> >I'm strongly pitta.

> >

> >Ron

> >

> That's why I like you.

>

Ahh. So we're pitta-compatible. Works for me!

Maybe it's the Texas connection, too. I lived in Grapevine and then North

Richland Hills in suburban DFW for about a year. Also spent 3 months living

on a ranch in the Red River Valley. I loved Texas and like to hear you

write about it.

Pitta-patta-ing away for the day....

Ron

[Guest guest]

>Out of all the metabolic typing books I have the hardest time with MTD,

>mostly because of the science. Just reread the researcher overviews again in

>Metabolic Man, 10,000 Years from Eden. Some are the opposite from other

>researchers and he calls that. What I like about this book is you can get a

>good idea what type you are from it without the MTD or with other tests like

>niacin. Body type, doshas help refine. This book and Rudolph Wiley's

>Biobalance are my suggestions. Don't want the cost, interlibrary loan should

>find them. 's books, both out of print, Nutrition and Your Mind and

>Personality Strength and Psychochemical Energy are excellent too.

>

>

Groovy, Wanita. I really appreciate these book recommendations. Half

Price Books might even have them. You never know, and I have two stores

near me.

>Sour in Metabolic Man is only discussed with doshas. Iirc, you're pitta

>dominant like my dh. Says too much salty, sour, pungent, spicy or fermented

>foods, hot, light, oily foods, too much food are dietary negatives.

>Positives, cool, warm, not steamy hot. Needs bitter, sweet, astringent foods

>like salads, less butter/fat, cool drinks, balanced by cold, heavy, dry

>foods. Unfortunately, there's loose notes of foods in these groups. Kefir is

>cold, cabbage dry, beef heavy.

>

>

Yes, I am pitta, but not too strongly, kapha next. At least I wake up

early in the cool part of the day, because I do eat spicy foods. And I

eat kimchi, kraut, salsa, or something like this at just about every

meal. I love raw dandelion salad, heck, any bitter green is my friend.

I should make some Jazhik salad soon (or whatever it's called) with

kefir, cucumber, dill and mint. That would go great with a steak, too.

>Don't think I answered the morning hunger question like a protein type. Can

>say that even with coffee in the morning, added fat, protein in my diet and

>being gf-cf that when I do get hungry a few hours after I wake up that it's

>real hunger I didn't have before. Protein, fat breakfast works best.

>

>

Me too. I can have melon or berries, but generally coffee and maybe

fried eggs and kimchi is all I ever eat until lunch. I am eating beef

tongue chili with salsa now, and I am sweating, lol.

>Wiley found many women to be two types within the month, usually on the acid

>to more alkaline side which is MTD's protein to mixed end. A troubled boy

>was found to be acid to alkaline within a day and ate the three diets for

>different meals each day. Don't think the MTD book test can determine

>variable metabolisms. Fine tuning with how you feel can.

>

>Wanita

>

>

This is just such a wealth of information, Wanita. Thank you. Now, if

I can put it into practice ...

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>Ahh. So we're pitta-compatible. Works for me!

>

>Maybe it's the Texas connection, too. I lived in Grapevine and then North

>Richland Hills in suburban DFW for about a year. Also spent 3 months living

>on a ranch in the Red River Valley. I loved Texas and like to hear you

>write about it.

>

>Pitta-patta-ing away for the day....

>

>Ron

>

Hiya Ron,

Yeah, could be the hot Texan pitta thingy, lol. I love Texas, which is

hard to fathom since I miss the beach and mountains of my home state CA

so much. I have been here a few years and it is just so laid back and

swell. People are friendly and don't ask me tons of prying questions

like they did in the upper Midwest. I swim in the lakes west of the

Metroplex, probably with cotton mouths and more. Ever see venomous

snakes whilst water skiing?

Pitta-ping,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna in toasty warm Texas,

It's still spring here in central North Carolina. We are having the most

freakishly enjoyable weather. High 70s and low 80's and it's almost July.

> >See -- I didn't even recall that the sour issue was

> indicative of mixed

> >type. I eat sour every day. Sauerkraut, kefir, olives,

> heavily fermented

> >and unsweetened fruit juice kefirs.

> >

> >

> Well, I went through that test on mercola.com several times

> tweaking one

> factor (question) only each time and saw the resulting change in

> metabolic type. Liking pickles/vinegar takes you away from protein

> type, morning hunger brings you closer to protein, iirc.

Oh, very interesting. I actually did that myself but didn't recognize the

sour issue. It may have been because at the time I was just discovering my

passion for sour foods so it wasn't big on my radar.

>

> >You're a stud. I'm halfway through week three of the first

> exercise I've

> >done since my two shoulder surgeries in the Spring. I'd

> been feeling like a

> >lunk and just couldn't get moving. I already feel so much

> better but I'm

> >sure not going to tell you about my lame-O workouts.

> Starting easy.....

> >

> >

> Okay, I'll take that as a compliment, hee hee.

Oh please, do!

>I remember

> now that you

> had surgery. How is the shoulder doing now? Do you have full rom

> without issue. I forget now what your problem was.

Medium rotator cuff tear, bone spur, labral abrasion and stretched biceps

tendon. Yeah, it was a real mess. Then 4 weeks after the surgery the biceps

tendon actually snapped off right below the repair so I got to go back in

again. That surgery was in mid-April All that because I did to many high

volume heavy ballistic swings without proper preparation. Youch.

But I've got 95% of my range of motion back and I was just relapsed to start

working the biceps a little bit. I'm curling 5 pound weights. LOL. At

least I was able to find some manly ones that aren't covered in pink rubber.

>But on

> the lame-o

> workouts: Now now, we aren't in any fitness contest, cuz

> heck, I dropped

> that ball a long time ago <g>. And besides, we all have

> interests and

> uniqueness. You should be proud of yourself for embarking on a

> progressively increased intensity workout; starting off easy is what

> more people should do, and they wouldn't injure or burn

> themselves out

> on exercise. Are you doing strength training/rehabilitation for the

> shoulder, btw?

Yes. I'm alternating days of easy walking/running over a very hilly course

with days of High Octane Cardio sessions doing kettlebell work with my left

arm and using my heavy 3 pound weights with my right. Then I do about 20

minutes of specific shoulder rehab weight work. Coming along slowly but

nicely. It was interesting that much of the pain in my shoulder stopped

when I finally stopped babying the thing and started exercising it.

>

> >So funny that you mention this. I have been running off and

> on since 1979

> >and I have experienced runner's high exactly twice. Both

> times when I was

> >17. It's been mostly torture other than that. I have no

> endurance and

> >running becomes uncomfortable for me pretty quickly after

> starting. The

> >longest that I've ever consistently run at a time was 3

> miles. Most of my

> >running career has been short runs of about 2 miles. The

> notion of running

> >for an entire day as you mentioned in another post is not

> even a possibility

> >for me. Can't imagine it. I've never been able to figure

> this out. Is it

> >mental? Is it physical? To look at me I look like the

> picture of health.

> >Why can't I run long distance? God knows that I've tried to

> work up to it.

> >

> >

> You may just have a high percentage of fast twitch muscle

> fibers. It's

> a genetic thing.

I'm just not so sure. I'm having some experiences lately that make me think

it may be an energetic thing. Stuck energy flows and all of that New and

Old age crap. We'll see.

>Do you enjoy power lifting perchance?

Funny, I've never gone that route. My way into weightlifting was the BFL

program and that's very oriented towards the bodybuilding style. It always

felt too easy doing low reps with heavy weight. It just wasn't any fun if I

didn't want to throw up.

My priorities have completely changed since overtraining myself and damaging

my shoulder. I'm much more interested in functional strength now and am

doing a much more varied program to develop that.

>I'd say, run

> the short distance that feels good, but go fast.

Yes, that's where I'm headed.

>

> There's a guy that shows up at the track most days I am

> there. He runs

> 3-4 laps and leaves. I think, " Why does he drive here to run

> a mile or

> less? " But he's quick and consistent, AND he's off his butt before

> work, so more power to him.

>

> I'm a mid-distance gal myself, in theory anyway, lol. I have

> no desire

> to run anything farther than a half marathon (13.1 miles/21

> km). Ten km

> is more my preference for distance once I get in the swing.

HA. Mid-distance in my book is about 3 miles. :-) And good for you. I'd

love to run a 10k someday but that just seems like torture for the moment.

>

> >

> >I did manage to discover over the past three years that I

> actually do enjoy

> >the torture of a good weightlifting workout, though. So

> there is some hope.

> >

> >Ron

> >

> See, it's all in the preference and maybe the percentage of

> white muscle

> fibers. There is always hope, and if you find weight lifting

> to be the

> trigger tripper for you, then go with it. Next year it might be

> canoing, who knows?

There ya go. It's all about having fun and being fit.

Ron