Antibiotics and development of allergies

[Guest guest]

Hey guys and gals,

Take a look at this article:

http://www.news-medical.net/print_article.asp?id=7005

They end up saying that you should eat lots of raw fruits and veggies

after taking antibiotics because they contain antioxidants that help

fix the intestinal tract after you take antibiotics.

Wouldn't it be more likely that the skins of raw fruits and veggies

would harbor beneficial bacteria? And they could help replenish the

beneficial bacteria that got killed by the antibiotics?

I'm thinking of the way you traditionally start sauerkraut. Doesn't

raw cabbage normally have beneficial bacteria on it? You don't

*have* to use whey to start sauerkraut, do you????

What do you think?

[Guest guest]

>Wouldn't it be more likely that the skins of raw fruits and veggies

>would harbor beneficial bacteria? And they could help replenish the

>beneficial bacteria that got killed by the antibiotics?

Probably that too, but it also seems to be the case that pectin and vegie fibers

really help the bacteria in the lower gut, in ways I don't quite understand.

Eating pectin helps your gut create butyrate, ditto for fiber. Butyrate is

amazingly healing for the gut, it's also the preferred fuel for the intestinal

walls, but it's only created by bacteria (and rancid fats).

I agree about the bacteria though ... most of our food sources are mainly

bacteria-free. In my experience though, kefir works the best for healing

antibiotic damage.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

The way the pectin and veggie fibers help the gut bacteria reminds me

of the way cattle need fiber, too. Their rumen does best with lots

of it. You don't get CLA unless the cattle are on grass or other

high fiber, natural food. Whenever you switch them from grass/hay to

grain, they usually suffer from things like scours until they get

accustomed to it.

Back to humans: why do some authorities push the idea of juicing so

much? If you juice all your fruits/veggies, you're depriving

yourself of the pectin and fiber, aren't you? I know people who

faithfully juice but still suffer from various maladies. They are

always going to the doctor, too. :-(

Does anyone on this list rely heavily on juicing to maintain their

health????

>

> >Wouldn't it be more likely that the skins of raw fruits and

veggies

> >would harbor beneficial bacteria? And they could help replenish

the

> >beneficial bacteria that got killed by the antibiotics?

>

> Probably that too, but it also seems to be the case that pectin and

vegie fibers really help the bacteria in the lower gut, in ways I

don't quite understand. Eating pectin helps your gut create butyrate,

ditto for fiber. Butyrate is amazingly healing for the gut, it's also

the preferred fuel for the intestinal walls, but it's only created by

bacteria (and rancid fats).

>

> I agree about the bacteria though ... most of our food sources are

mainly bacteria-free. In my experience though, kefir works the best

for healing antibiotic damage.

>

>

> Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

asked:

<Does anyone on this list rely heavily on juicing to maintain their

health????

For the last 3 or so years, I have relied on 1 to 1-1/2 quarts of fresh

vegetable juice daily (for the last 8 months without any whole vegetables

and only rarely any fruits) to solve a number of serious health issues--most

of which have been solved. Having said that, however, I do not rely

exclusively on the juices. The rest of my diet, and my activities reflect,

in other ways, my seeking after--and finding--good health.

[Guest guest]

I have a suspicion that antibiotics do more than just cause problems in the

intestinal tract. Years ago I had an experience that gave me pause. Right

after Christmas I developed an ear infection. This was odd since I never

get ear infections. I asked the doctor if it could be an allergic reaction

to something. He was quite sure it was an ear infection. I took the

antibiotics that he prescribed and it went away. About a month later I had

another ear infection. Now this was really weird but I took the antibiotics

again and it went away again. Almost two months after that, I ran out of

shampoo. I got out some shampoo that had been given to me as a gift for

Christmas. I had used it for about 6 weeks after Christmas until I decided

I really couldn't stand the smell and I stopped using it. I used the

shampoo and developed and earache. I put the shampoo away again and the

earache went away. I realized that it had been the shampoo that had been

causing the earaches all along. But if that were true then why did the

earache go away when I took the antibiotics even though I was still using

the shampoo? This is certainly not proof of anything, but it seems to me

in this case, the antibiotics were suppressing the allergic reaction

somehow. In a month the effect of the antibiotic wore off and the

" infection " came back. Since that time, I have been very leery about

antibiotics and use them only sparingly. By the way, I have not had an

earache since that time.

Irene

At 02:33 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:

>Hey guys and gals,

>

>Take a look at this article:

>

>http://www.news-medical.net/print_article.asp?id=7005

>

>They end up saying that you should eat lots of raw fruits and veggies

>after taking antibiotics because they contain antioxidants that help

>fix the intestinal tract after you take antibiotics.

>

>Wouldn't it be more likely that the skins of raw fruits and veggies

>would harbor beneficial bacteria? And they could help replenish the

>beneficial bacteria that got killed by the antibiotics?

>

>I'm thinking of the way you traditionally start sauerkraut. Doesn't

>raw cabbage normally have beneficial bacteria on it? You don't

>*have* to use whey to start sauerkraut, do you????

>

>What do you think?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES

> * < />NATIVE

> NUTRITION online

> * <http://onibasu.com/>SEARCH the entire message archive with Onibasu

>

><mailto: -owner >LIST OWNER: Idol

>MODERATORS: Heidi Schuppenhauer

> Wanita Sears

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had never heard that antibiotics suppress the immune system, but

here is a page where they say exactly that:

http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum32/1748.html

Hmmmm....

>

>

> >Hey guys and gals,

> >

> >Take a look at this article:

> >

> >http://www.news-medical.net/print_article.asp?id=7005

> >

> >They end up saying that you should eat lots of raw fruits and

veggies

> >after taking antibiotics because they contain antioxidants that

help

> >fix the intestinal tract after you take antibiotics.

> >

> >Wouldn't it be more likely that the skins of raw fruits and veggies

> >would harbor beneficial bacteria? And they could help replenish

the

> >beneficial bacteria that got killed by the antibiotics?

> >

> >I'm thinking of the way you traditionally start sauerkraut.

Doesn't

> >raw cabbage normally have beneficial bacteria on it? You don't

> >*have* to use whey to start sauerkraut, do you????

> >

> >What do you think?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >IMPORTANT ADDRESSES

> > * <native-

nutrition/>NATIVE

> > NUTRITION online

> > * <http://onibasu.com/>SEARCH the entire message archive with

Onibasu

> >

> ><mailto: -owner >LIST OWNER:

Idol

> >MODERATORS: Heidi Schuppenhauer

> > Wanita Sears

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>This is certainly not proof of anything, but it seems to me

>in this case, the antibiotics were suppressing the allergic reaction

>somehow. In a month the effect of the antibiotic wore off and the

> " infection " came back. Since that time, I have been very leery about

>antibiotics and use them only sparingly. By the way, I have not had an

>earache since that time.

>

>Irene

I had the same issue with earrings ... when I used cheap shampoo, it caused

" contact dermatitis " (a kind of allergy, though not a true allergic reaction

from what I understand: you can get " sun dermatitis " even). Once you get

dermatitis, the skin is " open " and easily infected. Fungi can do the same thing,

which is what happens a lot in sinusitis. The fungal infection allows a

bacterial infection. The antibiotics clear the bacteria, but not the fungi, so

the infection comes back. The Mayo clinic has a nose spray that tackles both,

but a Neti pot with a couple drops of tea tree oil tackles both beautifully also

(might work for ear infections too, I don't know).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Hmmm....is right! Right after that experience, I was flipping through a

book at a store and read a statement that antibiotics could suppress the

immune system. I was in a hurry and didn't want to stand in line to buy the

book so I left. When I went back I couldn't find it again and couldn't

remember the title. But that idea has stayed with me.

Irene

At 01:50 PM 2/25/2005, you wrote:

>I had never heard that antibiotics suppress the immune system, but

>here is a page where they say exactly that

>

>http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum32/1748.html

>

>Hmmmm....

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > >Hey guys and gals,

> > >

> > >Take a look at this article:

> > >

> > >http://www.news-medical.net/print_article.asp?id=7005

> > >

> > >They end up saying that you should eat lots of raw fruits and

>veggies

> > >after taking antibiotics because they contain antioxidants that

>help

> > >fix the intestinal tract after you take antibiotics.

> > >

> > >Wouldn't it be more likely that the skins of raw fruits and veggies

> > >would harbor beneficial bacteria? And they could help replenish

>the

> > >beneficial bacteria that got killed by the antibiotics?

> > >

> > >I'm thinking of the way you traditionally start sauerkraut.

>Doesn't

> > >raw cabbage normally have beneficial bacteria on it? You don't

> > >*have* to use whey to start sauerkraut, do you????

> > >

> > >What do you think?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >IMPORTANT ADDRESSES

> > > * <native-

>nutrition/>NATIVE

> > > NUTRITION online

> > > * <http://onibasu.com/>SEARCH the entire message archive with

>Onibasu

> > >

> > ><mailto: -owner >LIST OWNER:

>Idol

> > >MODERATORS: Heidi Schuppenhauer

> > > Wanita Sears

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

The only time I ever used the neti pot technique, within 48 hours my

left eardrum burst.

Never had a burst eardrum before.

Not fun.

Never did regain full hearing.

:-P

>

> >This is certainly not proof of anything, but it seems to me

> >in this case, the antibiotics were suppressing the allergic

reaction

> >somehow. In a month the effect of the antibiotic wore off and the

> > " infection " came back. Since that time, I have been very leery

about

> >antibiotics and use them only sparingly. By the way, I have not

had an

> >earache since that time.

> >

> >Irene

>

> I had the same issue with earrings ... when I used cheap shampoo,

it caused " contact dermatitis " (a kind of allergy, though not a true

allergic reaction from what I understand: you can get " sun

dermatitis " even). Once you get dermatitis, the skin is " open " and

easily infected. Fungi can do the same thing, which is what happens a

lot in sinusitis. The fungal infection allows a bacterial infection.

The antibiotics clear the bacteria, but not the fungi, so the

infection comes back. The Mayo clinic has a nose spray that tackles

both, but a Neti pot with a couple drops of tea tree oil tackles both

beautifully also (might work for ear infections too, I don't know).

>

>

> Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Seagate also has a nose spray made with olive leaf extract that would

work on both bacteria and fungi.

>

> >This is certainly not proof of anything, but it seems to me

> >in this case, the antibiotics were suppressing the allergic

reaction

> >somehow. In a month the effect of the antibiotic wore off and the

> > " infection " came back. Since that time, I have been very leery

about

> >antibiotics and use them only sparingly. By the way, I have not

had an

> >earache since that time.

> >

> >Irene

>

> I had the same issue with earrings ... when I used cheap shampoo,

it caused " contact dermatitis " (a kind of allergy, though not a true

allergic reaction from what I understand: you can get " sun

dermatitis " even). Once you get dermatitis, the skin is " open " and

easily infected. Fungi can do the same thing, which is what happens a

lot in sinusitis. The fungal infection allows a bacterial infection.

The antibiotics clear the bacteria, but not the fungi, so the

infection comes back. The Mayo clinic has a nose spray that tackles

both, but a Neti pot with a couple drops of tea tree oil tackles both

beautifully also (might work for ear infections too, I don't know).

>

>

> Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>The only time I ever used the neti pot technique, within 48 hours my

>left eardrum burst.

>

>Never had a burst eardrum before.

>

>Not fun.

>

>Never did regain full hearing.

>

>

>:-P

Interesting! For the life of me I can't figure out how a Neti pot could affect

one's ear. For me the water goes in one nostril and out the other, but I have to

watch that I don't swallow while doing it. I used to scuba dive and swim

underwater a lot though, so was always under threat of burst ear drums ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>For the life of me I can't figure out how a Neti pot could affect one's ear.

Because your nose and ear are connected, though I admit that the burst

eardrum thing sounds extraordinarily bizarre. I've used a Neti pot, a

squeeze bottle and now an electric irrigator with only the greatest of success.

-

[Guest guest]

>Because your nose and ear are connected, though I admit that the burst

>eardrum thing sounds extraordinarily bizarre. I've used a Neti pot, a

>squeeze bottle and now an electric irrigator with only the greatest of success.

>

>-

Yeah, your eustacian tube comes out in the back of your throat, and when I've

swallowed while on the Neti pot it does pull on the eardrum (as does swallowing

when you hold your nose: I guess because it can't equalize). But the water

doesn't, or shouldn't, go near the ear canal unless you don't lean over far

enough (some folks let the water go down their throats, but I think that's

gross, I can't handle it).

I had an electric irrigator once but I like the Neti pot better, mainly because

I feel like I can clean it out more and it doesn't make noise.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>But the water doesn't, or shouldn't, go near the ear canal unless you

>don't lean over far enough (some folks let the water go down their

>throats, but I think that's gross, I can't handle it).

I get much, much better results by letting the water come out my mouth, but

like I said, I've had no problems. It's just very helpful.

>I had an electric irrigator once but I like the Neti pot better, mainly

>because I feel like I can clean it out more and it doesn't make noise.

Huh. I like the electric irrigator much more. It's faster, and since only

the nose tip touches my nose anyway, it's quite cleanable.

-

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> I get much, much better results by letting the water come out my

mouth, but

> like I said, I've had no problems. It's just very helpful.

I use a neti pot almost every day, there are several stages or ways to

use it. One practice, as Heidi described, lets water run from one

nostril to the other.

The second practice, similar to what describes, involves gently

sniffing the saline in from the nostril to the back of the throat.

This clears the drain tubes that release by the tonsils, and washes

the tonsils as well.

There are more ways to practice jalneti, but I have only done stage

one and

two.

For a simple description of the neti pot stages with illustrations

see:

http://www.tarayoga.net/neti/types.html

for a more involved description, in PDF format see:

http://www.tarayoga.net/neti/pdfs/BOOKLET.PDF

The neti pot was the only way I could clear up a persistant sinus

infection.

Best,

[Guest guest]

The thing is that my infection cleared up the third time without

antibiotics. All I did was stop the shampoo. That is why I suspect it was

not an infection at all.

Irene

At 02:20 PM 2/25/2005, you wrote:

>

> >This is certainly not proof of anything, but it seems to me

> >in this case, the antibiotics were suppressing the allergic reaction

> >somehow. In a month the effect of the antibiotic wore off and the

> > " infection " came back. Since that time, I have been very leery about

> >antibiotics and use them only sparingly. By the way, I have not had an

> >earache since that time.

> >

> >Irene

>

>I had the same issue with earrings ... when I used cheap shampoo, it

>caused " contact dermatitis " (a kind of allergy, though not a true allergic

>reaction from what I understand: you can get " sun dermatitis " even). Once

>you get dermatitis, the skin is " open " and easily infected. Fungi can do

>the same thing, which is what happens a lot in sinusitis. The fungal

>infection allows a bacterial infection. The antibiotics clear the

>bacteria, but not the fungi, so the infection comes back. The Mayo clinic

>has a nose spray that tackles both, but a Neti pot with a couple drops of

>tea tree oil tackles both beautifully also (might work for ear infections

>too, I don't know).

>

>

>Heidi Jean

>

>

>

>

>

>

>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES

> * < />NATIVE

> NUTRITION online

> * <http://onibasu.com/>SEARCH the entire message archive with Onibasu

>

><mailto: -owner >LIST OWNER: Idol

>MODERATORS: Heidi Schuppenhauer

> Wanita Sears

>

>

[Guest guest]

>The thing is that my infection cleared up the third time without

>antibiotics. All I did was stop the shampoo. That is why I suspect it was

>not an infection at all.

>Irene

Not necessarily .. it could still have been an infection, but once you removed

the irritant your body could heal. I'm not trying to argue either way, BTW ...

to know FOR SURE something is an infection you'd probably have to look under a

microscope. But there are strange relationships between irritants, allergies,

and antibiotics. Acne, for instance, tends to clear up when you take

antibiotics, but it is often caused by dietary factors. The dietary factors tend

to make for more of the wrong kind of bacteria in the wrong place ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Well I am not sure either. It sure did give me some healthy skepticism

about antibiotics. I am not against antibiotics BTW , I do take them but

only very rarely. I would not be surprised though, if sometime in the

future we find out that they cause way more problems than we imagined.

Irene

At 02:05 PM 2/27/2005, you wrote:

>

> >The thing is that my infection cleared up the third time without

> >antibiotics. All I did was stop the shampoo. That is why I suspect it was

> >not an infection at all.

> >Irene

>

>Not necessarily .. it could still have been an infection, but once you

>removed the irritant your body could heal. I'm not trying to argue either

>way, BTW ... to know FOR SURE something is an infection you'd probably

>have to look under a microscope. But there are strange relationships

>between irritants, allergies, and antibiotics. Acne, for instance, tends

>to clear up when you take antibiotics, but it is often caused by dietary

>factors. The dietary factors tend to make for more of the wrong kind of

>bacteria in the wrong place ...

>

>

>Heidi Jean

>

>

>

>

>

>

>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES

> * < />NATIVE

> NUTRITION online

> * <http://onibasu.com/>SEARCH the entire message archive with Onibasu

>

><mailto: -owner >LIST OWNER: Idol

>MODERATORS: Heidi Schuppenhauer

> Wanita Sears

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

>I'm thinking of the way you traditionally start sauerkraut. Doesn't

>raw cabbage normally have beneficial bacteria on it? You don't

>*have* to use whey to start sauerkraut, do you????

You definitely don't have to use whey, and in fact you can get better

results without it. And you're very possibly partly or wholly right.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>The second practice, similar to what describes, involves gently

>sniffing the saline in from the nostril to the back of the throat.

>This clears the drain tubes that release by the tonsils, and washes

>the tonsils as well.

Yeah, I've definitely never done that. There's no sniffing involved for me

or with any method I've seen explicated. With a neti pot, gravity did the

job, and with the squeeze bottle and the electric irrigator, a modicum of

force assists gravity, but from the perspective of my head and nasal

passages, it's a passive process. I once sniffed by accident and it was

quite uncomfortable.

-

[Guest guest]

Irene-

>The thing is that my infection cleared up the third time without

>antibiotics. All I did was stop the shampoo. That is why I suspect it was

>not an infection at all.

Maybe it wasn't an infection, or maybe the shampoo was affecting the

chemistry of your body such that undesirable organisms could flourish, but

without the shampoo that favorable environment disappeared.

-

[Guest guest]

Impossible to know for sure at this point.

Irene

At 04:12 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote:

>Irene-

>

> >The thing is that my infection cleared up the third time without

> >antibiotics. All I did was stop the shampoo. That is why I suspect it was

> >not an infection at all.

>

>Maybe it wasn't an infection, or maybe the shampoo was affecting the

>chemistry of your body such that undesirable organisms could flourish, but

>without the shampoo that favorable environment disappeared.

>

>

>

>

>-

>

>

>

>

>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES

> * < />NATIVE

> NUTRITION online

> * <http://onibasu.com/>SEARCH the entire message archive with Onibasu

>

><mailto: -owner >LIST OWNER: Idol

>MODERATORS: Heidi Schuppenhauer

> Wanita Sears

>

>

[Guest guest]

Irene-

>Impossible to know for sure at this point.

Oh, for sure. I was just speculating because, well, I always speculate. <g>

-

[Guest guest]

Do you use something else instead? Perhaps salt? Or do you just let it

ferment on its own.

Irene

At 03:43 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote:

>-

>

> >I'm thinking of the way you traditionally start sauerkraut. Doesn't

> >raw cabbage normally have beneficial bacteria on it? You don't

> >*have* to use whey to start sauerkraut, do you????

>

>You definitely don't have to use whey, and in fact you can get better

>results without it. And you're very possibly partly or wholly right.

>

>

>

>

>-

>

>

>

>

>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES

> * < />NATIVE

> NUTRITION online

> * <http://onibasu.com/>SEARCH the entire message archive with Onibasu

>

><mailto: -owner >LIST OWNER: Idol

>MODERATORS: Heidi Schuppenhauer

> Wanita Sears

>

>

[Guest guest]

Irene-

>Do you use something else instead? Perhaps salt? Or do you just let it

>ferment on its own.

Salt, of course, but no, I don't bother with whey.

-