Chips: was Anchovy experiment

[Guest guest]

>you also have to consider whether the anemic, fatigued life

>you'd be living would enable you to earn enough money to position yourself

>to take advantage of those prospective life extension advances.

Which is why I do the f/f diet ... my life is far from " anemic and fatigued " ...

I have far more energy than I EVER have, plus I have more time (less time in the

kitchen, if nothing else!). I've never been one to sacrifice today because maybe

tomorrow will be better. I find that *constantly digesting* is a sort of energy

drain in and of itself.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>> That explains why the gluten caused the villi to " sleep " even in people

>> who

>> are NOT gluten intolerant.

>>

>> Chris

>

>Wild guess, could be the opioids. Wonder if dairy opioids put everyone's

>villi to sleep.

>

>Wanita

The study I heard about was only for 6 people, but it was for non-celiacs who

got high doses of gluten. Their villi didn't " sleep " but they were damaged after

a few weeks of a high-gluten diet. The problem is: they MAY have been gluten

intolerant, since the only test was for " celiac " (only 1 in 10 gluten intolerant

people have enough damage to count as celiac, which is considered " the tip of

the iceberg " ).

Gliadin seems to " glom on " to the villi in everyone. What exactly are the

effects are anyone's guess, at least I haven't seen any definitive studies on

that. My GUESS is that it causes folks to overeat and under-digest, because the

villi are responsible for sampling food and feeding back the results to the

brain, and for absorbing sugars etc. Folks who mount an immune response to the

stuff get a lot more problems though.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> RE: Chips: was Anchovy experiment

>

>

>Lifespan (as opposed to quality) seems to be at least in part genetic,

>though people are going way overboard with the everything's-genetic

>attitude nowadays. Once you control for accident and disease, Keys

>probably was going to live more or less as long as he lived. That

>said, do

>you actually know what he ate himself? Lots of dietary gurus turn out to

>be liars, practicing something quite different from what they

>preached. Also, it's important to consider what he (and others of

>his ilk)

>ate when he was a child and a young man, and what his mother ate and so

>on. On top of one's early-years diet, the intrauterine

>environment and the

>quality of mother's milk have profound effects (and it may be that these

>have a much greater role than genes in determining lifespan).

>Price didn't

>always eat well, and neither did Atkins -- and Atkins, remember, died from

>an accident, not of natural causes.

>

>

>

>

>-

>

I think it's also important to note that Price effectively killed his son by

giving him a root canal that eventually led to his death. Imagine living

with THAT kind of guilt/despair(?) for your entire life. It would probably

have a tremendous negative impact on one's health. There are so many factors

in longevity and certainly the longevity of gurus of any nutritional

paradigm essentially tells us nothing.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>Which is why I do the f/f diet ... my life is far from " anemic and

>fatigued " ... I have far more energy than I EVER have, plus I have more

>time (less time in the kitchen, if nothing else!). I've never been one to

>sacrifice today because maybe tomorrow will be better. I find that

>*constantly digesting* is a sort of energy drain in and of itself.

I don't think the warrior diet really resembles these lab F/F

experiments. In those, I believe feeding and fasting DAYS are alternated,

whereas the warrior diet just concentrates most feeding to one part of the

day, before bedtime, so that the energy consumed by digestion is largely

consumed during sleep.

-

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>I think it's also important to note that Price effectively killed his son by

>giving him a root canal that eventually led to his death. Imagine living

>with THAT kind of guilt/despair(?) for your entire life. It would probably

>have a tremendous negative impact on one's health. There are so many factors

>in longevity and certainly the longevity of gurus of any nutritional

>paradigm essentially tells us nothing.

Good catch. I'd completely forgotten about that, and your conclusion is

exactly right. Relying on gurus as exemplars not only ignores important

facts (factors in their lives, their diets before they became gurus, their

childhood environments and diets, their parents' diets, etc. etc. ad

nauseam) it's just a poor substitute for critical thinking.

-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/28/2005 7:20:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

I don't think the warrior diet really resembles these lab F/F

experiments. In those, I believe feeding and fasting DAYS are alternated,

whereas the warrior diet just concentrates most feeding to one part of the

day, before bedtime, so that the energy consumed by digestion is largely

consumed during sleep.

____

The F/F studies didn't measure energy levels. Interesting questions are

whether the WD has the same biochemical effects-- increased IGF-1, increased

fasting beta-ketoglutarte, decreased fasting blood glucose, decreased fasting

insulin, etc. I read a few months ago that there were some human studies being

carried out with the 20hr/4hr model. We'll see.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>The F/F studies didn't measure energy levels.

Are we talking anemic-animals/vigorous-animals or calories

consumed/expended? I was, admittedly, being casual, even sloppy.

-

[Guest guest]

--- RBJR <rbjr@...> wrote:

> Ansel Key's death really triggered the

> whole thing. Here's a guy who's body was probably made up of 90% corn oil

> and he lived a vigorous, conscious life until he died at 100 years of age.

> Dr. Price went in his 80's. Atkins went in his 70's. What is the truth of

> the situation?

The consumption (or non) of saturated fats is not the *only* factor in

determining

lifespan.

There are several factors that determine lifespan - genetics, nutrition during

the

earliest years, etc.

Just because Dr. Atkins did not live to be 150 years old doesn't mean that his

ideas on

nutrition were wrong - same for Dr. Price.

70s and 80s are not a bad age to live to, anyway.

Keep in mind that both men (esp. Dr. Atkins) formulated their ideas on diet and

nutrition

well into their middle ages, by which time their bodies had already suffered the

basic

damage.

Dr. Atkins had tried several diets before, including low-fat.

He was overweight during his 20s and 30s.

What I am saying is that none of them grew up the NT way.

His death was partly related to the slip-and-fall accident he had the year

before he

died.

It tickles me when I watch hair " doctors " selling magic cures for hair loss, but

are

obviously balding themselves (and trying to hide it).

But in the case of nutritional doctors like Price and Atkins, the same doesn't

apply.

-Pratick

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/1/2005 10:03:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

>The F/F studies didn't measure energy levels.

Are we talking anemic-animals/vigorous-animals or calories

consumed/expended? I was, admittedly, being casual, even sloppy.

_____

[Chris]

In the study that I looked at in detail (which talked about another one in

the intro, and I think those were the only two at the time), neither were

measured. But I suspect that the animals were vigorous rather than anemic,

mostly as an educated guess based on IGF-1 levels. Since the

growth/reproduction/vigor thing all seems to go hand in hand, and the CR mice

get lowered IGF-1

along with reduced g/r/v, and the F/F mice have higher IGF-1, I'm just

guessing the whole phenomenon is reversed.

Again, just a guess.

Chris