Re: Questions about the school choice vouchers

[Guest guest]

I'll take a stab at answering some of your questions. Keep in mind that

I'm not the one with the Senator's ear though.

Tonya

1. If there is a School Choice Voucher - theoretically - how many years

until that is a reality? My son has only 7 years of public schooling

left - and I can't waste a minute of it waiting.... I have to have his

current school held accountable for educating him now.... I can't wait

until I have the choice of going to another school..... There needs to

be legislation and funding to fix what's broken now...

If e legislation passed, I think it would be a long wait. Look how long

it's been since SB882 passed to rewrite the autism supplement and we

still don't have anything other than some meetings.

2. Say the school choice voucher program came into effect next year - or

two years at max... How many other schools would be in place to even

" choose " from?

I don't have an answer for this, but am afraid we would see man schools

quickly thrown together that might not properly serve our children.

How would that issue be addressed? To me that type of Legislation would

be nothing more than being " all dressed up with no where to go " ---

which is where I constantly find myself when attendant workers don't

show up!

That's what I'm afraid of too!

3. Say the school choice voucher program came into effect in the next

two years - and wha'la there is a school that just opened that is the

White House of autism education - what protections under IDEA would that

school be under? What if they found my son did not " fit " into that

program. What if - everyone else went there too and we were back to

overcrowded, understaffed, etc....

Good questions! The partial answer is it depends. If the school is a

TEA Charter school, you'd still have IDEA protections. If it's a true

private school that accepts no federal funding, then you're at their

mercy.

4. All the above - and - who is going to have to transport the students

to all these different schools in perhaps all these different

locations???? The schools or the parents?

I don't know of any charter school that provides transportation. Some

private schools do, but that is added cost in the tuition.

I really am not meaning to be argumentative or ignorant - but I can't

get past how creating or building all these new schools and choices -

would be better or more cost efficient than fixing the current public

schools that are here - and hiring and training appropriate teachers,

para-professionals - and egads - do we dare say BCBA's or BCABA's to

work in them????

Help me see what I'm missing Liz or anyone else....

Sincerely,

M. Guppy

Contact me to order the 2007 Autism Awareness Calendar for Texas!

Texas Autism Advocacy: www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org

" There are some aspects of a person's life that we have no right to

compromise. We cannot negotiate the size of an institution. No one

should live in one. We cannot debate who should get an inclusive

education. Everyone should. We cannot determine who does and who does

not get the right to make their own choices and forge their own futures.

All must. "

[Guest guest]

Excellent thoughts, ....many that I didn't think of.

My initial thought when I heard about this possibility was " yippee " , then I

started thinking more. The cold, hard truth is that if this is approved for

autistic children, there WILL be other needs " sneaking " in -- my child is gifted

and the GT program is non-existant/poor/not challenging enough....there are

gangs at my child's school and there isn't a safe environment....the list will

go on with reasons that are perfectly valid concerns for parents....why

shouldn't vouchers be available to them, too?

As one who pays very high school taxes, I would be TERRIFIED if vouchers

happened. The schools would either decline because they would be losing tax

money from those families using vouchers, or they would raise taxes. Either one

would be devastating to those of us who, even with vouchers, could not afford

private schoools. If taxes went up to meet the current standards of my schools,

I would have to move to an area with lower taxes, which would probably mean less

desireable schools; if the schools were forced to get by with this significant

loss of tax money I would have to watch the quality of my schools go down from

this loss of funds. You would have so many autistic kids falling through the

cracks this way, IMO. Even with voucher money, not all of us could afford

private schooling for our kids. Plus, I have two other kids, not autistic, that

I have to worry about in terms of the quality of their education.

Someone was talking about the cost of one-on-one, and how that is absolutely

necessary for our autistic kids. My son started in NJ schools, considered one

of the best areas for special needs, and he NEVER had one on one. He did have

self-contained classes, and was gradually mainstreamed with lots of support.

The special ed staff was trained in ABA and other methods....THAT is where we

should be putting our efforts -- getting these school systems to train and pay

the proper personnel for our kids, and then vouchers would be a moot point!

There may have to be some exceptions (there were in NJ!!), where a district's

answer for a particular child was to bus them to a neighboring district that was

more able to meet their needs. Bottom line, the child was having his/her needs

met. Keep in mind, the school districts there are very small in geographical

area, and my own son was in the Parsippany/Troy Hills district yet didn't attend

his " home " school -- there was another

elementary school that was much more suited for him. The district provided

transportation to get him there, along with several other kids in the district:

they were able to consolidate resources and have one great program at this one

school rather than spread their resources across several schools, and this

worked beautifully. Bottom line, this sort of solution may be better overall

than vouchers.

Many say that vouchers would increase their options for their child....but

they may also remove options for many of us. We need to be careful what we wish

for....

e

" M. Guppy " wrote:

Ok - I admit I have to turn to others for the specifics of things -

and these may be stupid questions, but....

On the School Choice Voucher proposal/legislation, please clarify these

questions for me!

1. If there is a School Choice Voucher - theoretically - how many years until

that is a reality? My son has only 7 years of public schooling left - and I

can't waste a minute of it waiting.... I have to have his current school held

accountable for educating him now.... I can't wait until I have the choice of

going to another school..... There needs to be legislation and funding to fix

what's broken now...

2. Say the school choice voucher program came into effect next year - or two

years at max... How many other schools would be in place to even " choose " from?

The schools I know of in my area - do not accept kids as significantly affected

as my son. The ones that would - only work with younger children. My son is 14.

How would that issue be addressed? To me that type of Legislation would be

nothing more than being " all dressed up with no where to go " --- which is where

I constantly find myself when attendant workers don't show up!

3. Say the school choice voucher program came into effect in the next two years

- and wha'la there is a school that just opened that is the White House of

autism education - what protections under IDEA would that school be under? What

if they found my son did not " fit " into that program. What if - everyone else

went there too and we were back to overcrowded, understaffed, etc....

4. All the above - and - who is going to have to transport the students to all

these different schools in perhaps all these different locations???? The schools

or the parents?

I really am not meaning to be argumentative or ignorant - but I can't get past

how creating or building all these new schools and choices - would be better or

more cost efficient than fixing the current public schools that are here - and

hiring and training appropriate teachers, para-professionals - and egads - do we

dare say BCBA's or BCABA's to work in them????

Help me see what I'm missing Liz or anyone else....

Sincerely,

M. Guppy

Contact me to order the 2007 Autism Awareness Calendar for Texas!

Texas Autism Advocacy: www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org

" There are some aspects of a person's life that we have no right to compromise.

We cannot negotiate the size of an institution. No one should live in one. We

cannot debate who should get an inclusive education. Everyone should. We cannot

determine who does and who does not get the right to make their own choices and

forge their own futures. All must. "

[Guest guest]

I know you are not being argumentative...

And, If someone has seen any TX autism scholarship legislation let me know

because I

have not seen any... Alright I am being a smart ass. But really so much of

what we are at

odds about is theory and guess work. " If we have scholarships then this MAY

happen... "

We know for a fact that the OH program is WORKING. Actually, so well that the

Governor

(D) elect would like to make it a permanent. Hmm, wonder why he would do that

if all

these horrible things occurred???

Anyways, all your questions are great, and because I don't have

legislation sitting

right in front of me, I can't really answer some... But you want to know when

this will take

effect? NEVER if we fight. When can we have schools take children like yours

and mine?

NEVER if we fight. When will our districts find urgency to change? Well, never

if we fight.

Also all of these problems that we hear about in special education exist today.

Does a

scholarship really make those problems worse? Or is it a kick in the pants and

a

movement in the right direction? I always hear from the typical " voucher "

opposition that

" this is going to happen " Oh really??? Did we already try this in Texas and

that is exactly

what happened???? Also tell me, as a community what are we advocating for today

that

will touch EVERYONE OF OUR CHILDREN EQUALLY??? Will Mason personally benefit

from

CAA? Probably not. Did I advocate for it and want it to pass? Absolutely!

Insurance

reform, is it needed? ABSOLUTELY! Will it change anything for Mason? Probably

not, but I

would advocate for it!

You know what I wish there was something I could do that made

everything good,

right and perfect. But of course there is not. Our children are different, our

needs as a

family are different, our wishes and desires for our children are different...

I wish there

was a magic answer to our woes, but the status quo and the snails pace that we

work at

with the TEA is UNACCEPTABLE. The money and the added stress that our families

spend

on lawyers is UNACCEPTABLE. It blows my mind that people in the autism

community

would actually be against something that could produce immediate change, help

families

and give our school districts a reason to say " OK lets try that " instead of " Its

our way or the

highway " .

Moving on...

Liz

>

> Ok - I admit I have to turn to others for the specifics of things - and these

may be

stupid questions, but....

>

> On the School Choice Voucher proposal/legislation, please clarify these

questions for

me!

>

> 1. If there is a School Choice Voucher - theoretically - how many years

until that is a

reality? My son has only 7 years of public schooling left - and I can't waste a

minute of it

waiting.... I have to have his current school held accountable for educating

him now.... I

can't wait until I have the choice of going to another school..... There needs

to be

legislation and funding to fix what's broken now...

>

> 2. Say the school choice voucher program came into effect next year - or

two years at

max... How many other schools would be in place to even " choose " from?

>

> The schools I know of in my area - do not accept kids as significantly

affected as my

son. The ones that would - only work with younger children. My son is 14.

>

> How would that issue be addressed? To me that type of Legislation would be

nothing

more than being " all dressed up with no where to go " --- which is where I

constantly find

myself when attendant workers don't show up!

>

> 3. Say the school choice voucher program came into effect in the next two

years - and

wha'la there is a school that just opened that is the White House of autism

education -

what protections under IDEA would that school be under? What if they found my

son did

not " fit " into that program. What if - everyone else went there too and we were

back to

overcrowded, understaffed, etc....

>

> 4. All the above - and - who is going to have to transport the students to

all these

different schools in perhaps all these different locations???? The schools or

the parents?

>

>

> I really am not meaning to be argumentative or ignorant - but I can't get

past how

creating or building all these new schools and choices - would be better or more

cost

efficient than fixing the current public schools that are here - and hiring and

training

appropriate teachers, para-professionals - and egads - do we dare say BCBA's or

BCABA's

to work in them????

>

> Help me see what I'm missing Liz or anyone else....

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> M. Guppy

> Contact me to order the 2007 Autism Awareness Calendar for Texas!

> Texas Autism Advocacy: www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org

>

> " There are some aspects of a person's life that we have no right to

compromise. We

cannot negotiate the size of an institution. No one should live in one. We

cannot debate

who should get an inclusive education. Everyone should. We cannot determine

who does

and who does not get the right to make their own choices and forge their own

futures. All

must. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Liz,

Do you think you could provide a brief synopsis of the OHIO program, so we

would all know how it is working and why? I really think we can put our

heads together and make BOTH of these issues work together…the insurance

necessity for the youngest and most recently diagnosed children AT A

MINIMUM, and then followed up by vouchers for those who need them AND

improved public school services for those who can’t use the vouchers. I see

this all fitting together in a multi-pronged approach to improving the

overall climate for autism in Texas.

I don’t think this has to be an either/or, I think it should/could be part

of an overall program with many different OPTIONS. That is what we all need,

OPTIONS. Right now, our options are NOTHING. Crummy, bad, or nonexistent.

Some options, huh? But we have to have s specific, overarching plan with

some real strategy behind all of the things we want in it, so we can argue

the points that people throw out about any and all of these ideas. I see

this fitting together as a package.

And…the other focus we ABSOLUTELY cannot forget about in this entire mix is

older adolescent and mainly ADULT services (or, in the case of Texas, a

complete lack thereof). All these kids, no matter what great shape, how

enabled (recovered, whatever) or not they become, what good is any of it

when they become adults and there are NO supports for them and they ALL end

up sitting at home watching TV for the rest of their lives and all this

struggle, fight for education and insurance is all for naught?

This is why we SO DESPERATELY need a group that is really going to sit down

and put together a comprehensive plan, well thought out, specifically

spelled out on the how, when, and why - something that is appropriate for

everyone on the spectrum (structured flexibility) that looks at life long

needs. It needs to look at every area, and it needs to be SPECIFIC and have

MEASURABLE GOALS and a specific action plan attached. Until we do that, we

are not going to get anywhere. We are all going to end up just spinning our

wheels on things that don’t really solve the problem or only solve the

problems of the few and not the majority. I had hoped that the state plan

would do that, but it does not.

Just my .02.

nna

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006

1:17 PM

[Guest guest]

Below is some written text from a news report which aired yesterday on CBS

News: Many Autistic Kids, Few Schools To Help, Boston School Offers One-On-One

Therapy, But Most Public Schools Lack Resources... Here are the links to the

footage. The 2nd link is Vinnie Strully, executive director at the New

England Center For Children speaking on the topic, I like this guy.

_http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2282944n_

(http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2282944n)

_http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2282759n_

(http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2282759n)

Most public school systems don't have the money or resources to treat

autistic children. Educators say it's a little like asking the school nurse

to treat a child with leukemia.

" It's a terrible system to have your son's future be dependant on what

the tax revenues were in your hometown that year, " Bob Ruzzo says.

But the Ruzzos are dependent on them. Right now, their school district

helps pay 's $60,000-a-year tuition. There's no guarantee they'll pay

for the program in the future.

" We don't go on vacations because we're afraid we're going to have to

use that money to pay privately, " says Ruzzo, 's mother.

A bill signed today by President Bush offers little help. It earmarks

hundreds of millions of dollars for autism research, but little for care or

services.

" We have to treat the children who've already been diagnosed because

they are so numerous right now and so neglected right now, "

CReece

[Guest guest]

Folks can visit the website if they are interested in how the OH program works.

It is all in

the FAQ's

http://www.texasautismscholarships.org/

I am not sure where folks got the idea that there can only be one piece of

autism

legislation? Or that folks in the community need to support either/or...It

would be pretty

silly of us to put all of our eggs in one basket. Our legislative session only

comes around

every other year and anything can happen...

liz

>

> Liz,

>

> Do you think you could provide a brief synopsis of the OHIO program, so we

> would all know how it is working and why? I really think we can put our

> heads together and make BOTH of these issues work together…the insurance

> necessity for the youngest and most recently diagnosed children AT A

> MINIMUM, and then followed up by vouchers for those who need them AND

> improved public school services for those who can't use the vouchers. I see

> this all fitting together in a multi-pronged approach to improving the

> overall climate for autism in Texas.

>

> I don't think this has to be an either/or, I think it should/could be part

> of an overall program with many different OPTIONS. That is what we all need,

> OPTIONS. Right now, our options are NOTHING. Crummy, bad, or nonexistent.

> Some options, huh? But we have to have s specific, overarching plan with

> some real strategy behind all of the things we want in it, so we can argue

> the points that people throw out about any and all of these ideas. I see

> this fitting together as a package.

>

> And…the other focus we ABSOLUTELY cannot forget about in this entire mix is

> older adolescent and mainly ADULT services (or, in the case of Texas, a

> complete lack thereof). All these kids, no matter what great shape, how

> enabled (recovered, whatever) or not they become, what good is any of it

> when they become adults and there are NO supports for them and they ALL end

> up sitting at home watching TV for the rest of their lives and all this

> struggle, fight for education and insurance is all for naught?

>

> This is why we SO DESPERATELY need a group that is really going to sit down

> and put together a comprehensive plan, well thought out, specifically

> spelled out on the how, when, and why - something that is appropriate for

> everyone on the spectrum (structured flexibility) that looks at life long

> needs. It needs to look at every area, and it needs to be SPECIFIC and have

> MEASURABLE GOALS and a specific action plan attached. Until we do that, we

> are not going to get anywhere. We are all going to end up just spinning our

> wheels on things that don't really solve the problem or only solve the

> problems of the few and not the majority. I had hoped that the state plan

> would do that, but it does not.

>

> Just my .02.

>

> nna

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006

> 1:17 PM

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

These are all good questions, provided you’re in a district that’s actually

even CLOSE to being compliant with IDEA laws, or actually making an effort

to improve their educational programs for kids with autism. You’re right –

an autism scholarship program might not be a necessary choice for you. You

should by all means do all you can to take the decent basis you’ve got, and

continue to work on improving your district bit by bit. BUT – if you have

the curse of residing in a school district that is completely OUT of

compliance with IDEA and has no interest in developing or implementing

appropriate programs that actually HELP your child, then an autism

scholarship program is absolutely imperative. Try to keep an open mind, and

realize that there really are districts that just don’t care. We know – we’

re in one. There really are NO options for our child in our school

district, and no hope of that changing any time soon.

Should they continue to receive our tax dollars?

A. Weber

[Guest guest]

“Most public school systems don't have the money or resources to treat

autistic children. Educators say it's a little like asking the school nurse

to treat a child with leukemia.”

That’s the best description I’ve come across yet of how our district is

handling kids with autism.

A. Weber

[Guest guest]

I thought the exact same thing when I heard that. Great analogy...

ju

>

> " Most public school systems don't have the money or resources to

treat

> autistic children. Educators say it's a little like asking the

school nurse

> to treat a child with leukemia. "

>

> That's the best description I've come across yet of how our

district is

> handling kids with autism.

>

> A. Weber

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, keep fighting that district. I say that because our son was in

one of those districts. I've fought them since he was 3 and in PPCD.

Took him out of that program and put him in a regular, private

pre-school at our expense. NOT an easy thing to do since we're a one

income family. Put him back in public school in kindergarten, where he

got suspended for behaviors they created and reinforced. (I'll give

details if you want) Brought in Advocacy Inc. at that point and they

staffed his case for several years until they finally told us that

unless we went to due process there was nothing else they could do.

Kept on fighting until last year and this year he has a WONDERFUL

program and is making great progress. He did released TAKS tests for

the first time last year in 5th grade. This is a child that in

kindergarten they were happy if he was quiet and didn't expect anything

of. I actually had someone tell me in an ARD that I was asking too much

and I just needed to come to grips with his diagnosis! We fought so

much that the female principal once stepped in the boy's bathroom to

avoid meeting me in the hall. Same principal has stormed out of ARD

meetings saying " there's no dealing with you " . Eventually my son's

school wore down and quit fighting me. That's not to say the battle

might not be back on next year though. If it is, I'll be ready for

them.

Tonya

Re: Questions about the school choice

vouchers

These are all good questions, provided you're in a district that's

actually

even CLOSE to being compliant with IDEA laws, or actually making an

effort

to improve their educational programs for kids with autism. You're right

-

an autism scholarship program might not be a necessary choice for you.

You

should by all means do all you can to take the decent basis you've got,

and

continue to work on improving your district bit by bit. BUT - if you

have

the curse of residing in a school district that is completely OUT of

compliance with IDEA and has no interest in developing or implementing

appropriate programs that actually HELP your child, then an autism

scholarship program is absolutely imperative. Try to keep an open mind,

and

realize that there really are districts that just don't care. We know -

we'

re in one. There really are NO options for our child in our school

district, and no hope of that changing any time soon.

Should they continue to receive our tax dollars?

A. Weber