Re: Re: School Vouchers - Houston Chronicle

[Guest guest]

It's fine that you disagree, I welcome discussion about this.

Yes, there are kids in school who need some one on one instruction or small

group

instruction, but a young child with autism needs at least 25--that's over 5

hours

a day-- of one on one instruction a day. That is not school--that's

instensive therapy,

and as such should not be paid primarily for by the schools. Indeed, a

regular

teacher background, is not even the best preparation for supervising these

therapy

programs. I guarantee you that there very, very, very few if any schools in

Texas

providing over 5 hours of individualized instruction for each young children

with

autism in their school.

However, consider this. Insurance companies are in the business of funding

medical treatment for people who are sick. Yet, they are being allowed to

deny treatment

to children with autism. Why should the public sector, i.e. us the

taxpayers, foot the

entire bill??? Private industry, in the form of insurance companies needs

to pay their

share. That's their business. That's what they've assumed the risk for,

and in the

case of autism, they are paying a small fraction of what they actually

should be paying.

That's because they got the most powerful politicians in the state in their

pocket.

I just have a vision where a young child who gets diagnosed will be referred

to an

insurance funded clinic where he (she) will have access to a quality ABA

program

supervised by properly trained and certified personnel, and where the child

would

also have access to a speech path and a PT and OT in one place so that these

can be incorporated into the ABA program. Then by 3, if they were ready,

they

could transition, if the family chose, to a school program that designed to

teach

these kids the social skills they need. Or the family could keep the child

in the

clinic until kindergarten age. At that time the family would choose which

of the programs

in the school were the best fit for their child's skills and speed of

learning.

If parents were getting quality intervention programs paid for EARLY

intervention,

so many kids would be ready to make the transition to the programs that

schools

are providing.

Additionally, it is NOT a one on one world. It is a world full of people.

At some point,

a child is going to have to be able to successfully be in a small group of

people if they

want to have any kind of life in the community.

S.

School Vouchers - Houston

Chronicle

>

>

> Dec. 18, 2006, 1:31AM

> Autism fuels call for school vouchers

> State lawmaker and families push for legislation to open the

doors of

> private programs

>

> By GARY SCHARRER

> Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau

>

> AUSTIN — School voucher plans repeatedly have died in the Texas

> Legislature, but the Senate Education Committee chairwoman is eying

a

> whittled-down school-choice option that might be harder for

lawmakers to

> resist. Sen. Florence Shapiro, R-Plano, plans to push legislation

that would

> allow parents of autistic children to choose the best schools for

their

> children.

> " They have a very difficult time in a regular setting in a

classroom, "

> said Shapiro, who long has supported vouchers. " I would like to see

a choice

> program. ... It's what I think we should do for children with

autism. "

> The number of Texas children diagnosed with various degrees of

autism has

> nearly doubled over the past five years, increasing from 8,972

students to

> 17,282 in the 2005-06 school year, according to the Texas Education

Agency.

> Autism is a complex developmental disability that affects the

functioning

> of the brain and development in the areas of social interaction and

> communication skills.

> A voucher program would allow eligible parents to spend a certain

amount

> of tax dollars allocated for a child's public school education at

any

> school — public or private. The public school could be in a

different

> district from the child's home district.

> Even some lawmakers who have opposed vouchers say they are

willing to

> consider Shapiro's proposal. And while some parents hail the

voucher idea,

> education groups will oppose it.

> Demand and opposition

> Kendra Imbus embraces Shapiro's proposal.

> Her 4-year-old, , has severe autism and attends an early

> childhood autism program in the Katy Independent School District.

Many

> others are on a waiting list.

> also attends Shape of Behavior Inc., a private school

that

> specializes in teaching autistic children.

> If given a choice, Imbus said, parents could get help to cover

the cost

> for intensive and specialized education.

> " Maybe you could get them to a point where they could be

mainstreamed, and

> then, maybe, you wouldn't have to spend that money later, " Imbus

said.

> " That's what I think the general public doesn't realize. If we

could help

> them now, maybe they wouldn't have to be institutionalized when

they are

> older. "

> But she is not optimistic that lawmakers will support Shapiro's

plan.

> " It will be a hard sell. I don't think the public cares, " Imbus

said. " I

> don't think they understand the issue. I don't think they realize

how many

> of these children are out there. This is going to become an economic

> disaster in our country. "

> There is no known cure for autism. Early intervention is

imperative.

> Holli De Clemente also has enrolled her 3-year-old son, Justice,

in Shape

> of Behavior. The school, with six locations, enrolls 40 children

and has 45

> staff members.

> De Clemente said her Magnolia Independent School District has

beautiful

> public schools but, from her perspective, was unable to provide

adequate

> support for Justice.

> She said her son made " a mind-boggling transformation " nearly

immediately

> after being placed in the private school: He began speaking.

> Shape of Behavior charges $2,000 a month for part-time students

and $4,000

> a month for full-time students.

> " What typical family in America can do that? My parents are

helping us

> with part of it, because it's impossible, " De Clemente said.

> Education groups vigorously oppose voucher programs in Texas. Such

> proposals typically involve vouchers for low-income parents to move

children

> from low performing, inner-city schools to private schools or

better public

> schools.

> Voucher supporters and opponents agree any move to allow vouchers

for one

> disability or disease could open the door to other subsets of

students.

> " Public tax dollars should go to fund public schools, not private

> schools, " said Kouri, a spokesman for the Texas State

Teachers

> Association. " Our belief is that once you start moving public tax

dollars to

> private schools, whatever the initial reason, future arguments

become

> arguments around expanding that existing program. "

> State Sen. Van de Putte, D-San , said she opposes

school

> vouchers but agonizes with parents of autistic children.

> Van de Putte, a member of the Senate Education Committee, said

parents

> don't want to open the floodgates for a full-blown voucher system

but that

> they are lobbying for a limited-purpose voucher program in special

cases in

> which the school district agrees that it can't provide needed

services.

> Van de Putte, emphasizing that she opposes " diverting money and

passion

> away from our public school system, " said she is open-minded.

> Ongoing vouchers battleLawmakers have fought over school vouchers

during

> most of the past decade.

> San physician-turned-businessman Leininger spent

nearly $5

> million this year tying to elect voucher-friendly candidates. But

his effort

> largely failed, and now Leininger is pushing a compromise idea that

would

> allow school districts to keep a portion of the tax money when

students take

> a voucher to enroll in another school.

> " Leaving a percentage of the funds devoted to the student with

the public

> school creates a win-win situation, " Leininger's spokesman, Ken

Hoagland,

> said.

> But Van de Putte said there simply is no appetite in the

Legislature for a

> full-blown voucher program allowing tax dollars for low-income

parents to

> send children to private schools.

> Leininger also supports a voucher program for autistic children,

his

> spokesman said.

> Special needsAccording to Domonique Randall, founder of the Shape

of

> Behavior schools, it takes about two years of intensive interaction

at a

> young age before an autistic child can transition to a general

education

> classroom.

> " Our goal is to teach them to learn within a group and to teach

them to

> participate in a group setting, " Randall said.

> The most effective approach involves " applied behavior analysis, "

which

> emphasizes positive reinforcement, Randall said. Many public school

teachers

> are not trained in applied behavior analysis, she said.

> " These children going into public schools are either secluded and

put into

> classrooms with children all having disabilities, and so they don't

get the

> opportunity to learn from their typically developing peers, or their

> behavior (keeps) them from that opportunity, " Randall said. " But the

> behavior is the result of teachers not being trained. "

> gscharrer@...

>

> M. Guppy

> Contact me to order the 2007 Autism Awareness Calendar for Texas!

> Texas Autism Advocacy: www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org

>

> " There are some aspects of a person's life that we have no right

to

> compromise. We cannot negotiate the size of an institution. No one

should

> live in one. We cannot debate who should get an inclusive education.

> Everyone should. We cannot determine who does and who does not get

the right

> to make their own choices and forge their own futures. All must. "

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry Liz, my friend, we will have to come down on different sides of

the fence on this one and it's not the change I fear. You know me, I

advocate for all kids, not just mine. I'm VERY active in my community

and somewhat on a state and national level. Two of the committees I

serve on are working diligently to bring about a HUGE change at Texas

Tech by developing programs there for young adults with autism and other

developmental delays to have a college experience.

That said, I see the potential for harm for our children in a state-wide

autism voucher; especially in the small, rural areas, which is the

majority of Texas. Many of the small schools don't have the resources,

training, or motivation to teach our kids. Parents are already having

an uphill battle to get even minimal services in them. If there was a

voucher that didn't impact the school's bottom line, it would be too

easy for the schools to say take your voucher and go elsewhere without

even attempting to teach the child.

This already happens in small schools to an extent. Many have formed

co-ops to handle the children's special education needs and it's a fight

to keep our kids out of their self-contained classrooms. The small

schools aren't educated on autism and automatically think that's where

our kids belong. I know this from both personal experience and from

attending other children's ARDs as an advocate.

I've also heard the argument that if there is a voucher, more schools

will spring up. Yes, some will open, but will they be QUALITY schools?

A group up here has been trying to open one for over a year.

www.thedavinciacademyworld.org <http://www.thedavinciacademyworld.org/>

I'm the business manager for them, so I know the costs well. We

budgeted for 30 students the first year with 2 teachers and two aides

and it ran over $500,000. This did not include a building or the

modifications needed to make it sensory friendly. In reality, it simply

can't be done for $10,000 a student!

I can only see this situation getting worse with an autism voucher, so

yes, I'll have to stand against you on this one. If anyone else feels

the same, feel free to contact me off-list. I'm collecting names for the

groups that are opposing the vouchers.

Tonya Hettler

thettler@...

Re: School Vouchers - Houston Chronicle

Tonya I hear what you are saying, but a scholarship program does not

provide a choice if

an option is not available. Nothing in your situation will change with

the creation of a

scholarship program. You can continue on with life as you know it. I

know you are not

saying, because you can't use a scholarship, you don't want anybody else

to use one...

and I also understand that change is scary... But we have to look at the

data out of OH

and all the data reflects that the autism scholarship program has NOT

BEEN harmful to the

public schools or to other families. As a matter of fact the Democratic

elect Governor has

openly said he will make OH autism scholarship pilot program - law! The

program has

benefited 500 families in OH and I don't know about the rest of you but

I am so happy

that 500 families were able to make that choice for their family. Even

some of the public

schools have jumped on the scholarship bandwagon and have created a

school within a

school. Would that creative thinking have started without a scholarship

program?

I believe commented that these scholarships will somehow let the

insurance

companies off of their responsibilities. A scholarship program and

insurance reform are

apple and oranges and we need BOTH. Right now OH is working on mental

health parity

bill and I believe it has passed the House! They are also working on

improving their waiver

programs... So Understand that all reform and improvement in other areas

does not

simply stop because there is a scholarship program. A scholarship bill

does not fix ALL of

our woes in TX. If I thought there was one solution out there that would

FIX IT ALL IN ONE

BIG SWOOP, I WOULD DO IT AND KICK ANYONE'S ASS WHO GOT IN MY WAY. But I

don't

know of that 'one' solution. A scholarship program is just another piece

in the puzzle to

help families.

Folks lets not divide ourselves. We want to make sure our policy makers

in Texas want to

continue to work with us in the years to come. There IS urgency for

change for our

families and there is ABSOLUTELY NO URGENCY FOR CHANGE AT the TEA.

Much love,

Liz

>

> What about the children in the rural areas? The major metropolitan

> areas have alternatives, but Lubbock, Abilene, Amarillo, etc. don't.

> We're farmers near Lubbock and I'm afraid the smaller, rural schools

> will quit even trying to teach our children if a voucher is available.

> A lot of families, like mine, are tied to the land and can't pick up

and

> move to where a school is available.

>

> Tonya

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ginam

> In the meantime, i think the voucher system is a great help for

> families

> whose local public school is inept and unfit to educate their

chidlren.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually the scholarship program and insurance reform are not apples and

oranges. One of the biggest arguments insurance companies use is that ABA

is educational and they don't pay for education.

The problem is that ABA is a inter-disciplinary approach. That's one of the

problems the University of Rochester encountered during their study of ABA

in

a school setting. Where is the line between education and medical need.

If a child is needing more than 2 hours of individual teaching a day, then

they

need to be in an insurance funded program.

I'm basing my opinion on what I saw with my clients who had significant

needs

due to being death blind. Many of them qualified for services under

Medicaid, and

found those services, like speech, like ot, like pt, so far superior to what

was

offered in school, that they turned down the ppcd programs for their

children. And

their children made more progress in these programs. And they were paid for

by insurance, as they should be.

Honestly, ask yourself, if you knew that the insurance would pay for the

hours of

ABA plus one or two hours of speech a week and OT, would any of you be so

interested in getting the vouchers passed?

Change is scary. It's scary for TEA. It's scary for the insurance

companies, but it

ain't scary for me. I say BRING ON THE CHANGE BABY!

I love you Liz, and love what you're doing to raise the awareness in

Texas!!!!

Re: School Vouchers - Houston Chronicle

I believe commented that these scholarships will somehow let the

insurance

companies off of their responsibilities. A scholarship program and

insurance reform are

apple and oranges and we need BOTH. Right now OH is working on mental

health parity

bill and I believe it has passed the House! They are also working on

improving their waiver

programs... So Understand that all reform and improvement in other areas

does not

simply stop beause there is a scholarship program. A scholarship bill does

not fix ALL of

our woes in TX. If I thought there was one solution out there that would

FIX IT ALL IN ONE

BIG SWOOP, I WOULD DO IT AND KICK ANYONE'S ASS WHO GOT IN MY WAY. But I

don't

know of that 'one' solution. A scholarship program is just another piece

in the puzzle to

help families.

Folks lets not divide ourselves. We want to make sure our policy makers in

Texas want to

continue to work with us in the years to come. There IS urgency for change

for our

families and there is ABSOLUTELY NO URGENCY FOR CHANGE AT the TEA.

Much love,

Liz

---

.

[Guest guest]

If you want the autism community to pull together, you will have to look

at what it does for the whole community. Granted, a voucher could be a

benefit to children in the metropolitan areas that have other options

available. That is a small number when you look state-wide though. You

have to look at the bigger picture and how it impacts everyone if you

want everyone to be on board.

Tonya

Re: School Vouchers - Houston Chronicle

It is OK to disagree with me Tonya. I have a lot of respect for all that

you do. But, I am

absolutely heartbroken that our community will fight with each other on

an issue that has

the potential to help and to bring about real change for families... If

we fight, we gain

NOTHING and we become a community that is difficult to work with. I want

folks to focus

on real change, instead of using energy to fight a scholarship program,

use that energy

and change something! Solve a problm. Lets not make any more problems.

We have so

much to work on and I am just devasted that folks would rather put their

energy into

working against each other rather than changing and solving problems in

our state.

Anyways, I will stay focused and I will think positive about the future!

Much love,

Liz

[Guest guest]

Dear Tonya,

I am sorry, but I disagree with your assumption that the problem of

educating children with Autism is limited to small schools in rural areas.

I live in the CY-FAIR school distrcit which is a very large school system,

yet I homeschool my child because the class that he has to go in his home

campus is unfit and unequipped with the apropriate environment and staff to

deal with him.

I don't have the time nor energy to attend never-ending, stressful ARDs, nor

the money to hire an attorney, nor the stamina to fight everyday with the

school system to get basic needs and education for my child.

i would consider it UNFAIR that I pay school taxes without having a choice

in selecting the school that is appropriate for my child whether be it

public or private.

>

> That said, I see the potential for harm for our children in a state-wide

> autism voucher; especially in the small, rural areas, which is the

> majority of Texas. Many of the small schools don't have the resources,

> training, or motivation to teach our kids. Parents are already having

> an uphill battle to get even minimal services in them. If there was a

> voucher that didn't impact the school's bottom line, it would be too

> easy for the schools to say take your voucher and go elsewhere without

> even attempting to teach the child.

>

> This already happens in small schools to an extent. Many have formed

> co-ops to handle the children's special education needs and it's a fight

> to keep our kids out of their self-contained classrooms. The small

> schools aren't educated on autism and automatically think that's where

> our kids belong. I know this from both personal experience and from

> attending other children's ARDs as an advocate.

>

> I've also heard the argument that if there is a voucher, more schools

> will spring up. Yes, some will open, but will they be QUALITY schools?

> A group up here has been trying to open one for over a year.

> www.thedavinciacademyworld.org <http://www.thedavinciacademyworld.org/>

> I'm the business manager for them, so I know the costs well. We

> budgeted for 30 students the first year with 2 teachers and two aides

> and it ran over $500,000. This did not include a building or the

> modifications needed to make it sensory friendly. In reality, it simply

> can't be done for $10,000 a student!

>

> I can only see this situation getting worse with an autism voucher, so

> yes, I'll have to stand against you on this one. If anyone else feels

> the same, feel free to contact me off-list. I'm collecting names for the

> groups that are opposing the vouchers.

>

> Tonya Hettler

> thettler@...

>

>

> Re: School Vouchers - Houston Chronicle

>

> Tonya I hear what you are saying, but a scholarship program does not

> provide a choice if

> an option is not available. Nothing in your situation will change with

> the creation of a

> scholarship program. You can continue on with life as you know it. I

> know you are not

> saying, because you can't use a scholarship, you don't want anybody else

> to use one...

> and I also understand that change is scary... But we have to look at the

> data out of OH

> and all the data reflects that the autism scholarship program has NOT

> BEEN harmful to the

> public schools or to other families. As a matter of fact the Democratic

> elect Governor has

> openly said he will make OH autism scholarship pilot program - law! The

> program has

> benefited 500 families in OH and I don't know about the rest of you but

> I am so happy

> that 500 families were able to make that choice for their family. Even

> some of the public

> schools have jumped on the scholarship bandwagon and have created a

> school within a

> school. Would that creative thinking have started without a scholarship

> program?

>

> I believe commented that these scholarships will somehow let the

> insurance

> companies off of their responsibilities. A scholarship program and

> insurance reform are

> apple and oranges and we need BOTH. Right now OH is working on mental

> health parity

> bill and I believe it has passed the House! They are also working on

> improving their waiver

> programs... So Understand that all reform and improvement in other areas

> does not

> simply stop because there is a scholarship program. A scholarship bill

> does not fix ALL of

> our woes in TX. If I thought there was one solution out there that would

> FIX IT ALL IN ONE

> BIG SWOOP, I WOULD DO IT AND KICK ANYONE'S ASS WHO GOT IN MY WAY. But I

> don't

> know of that 'one' solution. A scholarship program is just another piece

> in the puzzle to

> help families.

>

> Folks lets not divide ourselves. We want to make sure our policy makers

> in Texas want to

> continue to work with us in the years to come. There IS urgency for

> change for our

> families and there is ABSOLUTELY NO URGENCY FOR CHANGE AT the TEA.

>

> Much love,

> Liz

>

>

>>

>> What about the children in the rural areas? The major metropolitan

>> areas have alternatives, but Lubbock, Abilene, Amarillo, etc. don't.

>> We're farmers near Lubbock and I'm afraid the smaller, rural schools

>> will quit even trying to teach our children if a voucher is available.

>> A lot of families, like mine, are tied to the land and can't pick up

> and

>> move to where a school is available.

>>

>> Tonya

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: ginam

>> In the meantime, i think the voucher system is a great help for

>> families

>> whose local public school is inept and unfit to educate their

> chidlren.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I don't believe I said the issues were limited to small schools. I used

them as an example because that is where my son attends.

Tonya

Re: School Vouchers - Houston

Chronicle

>

> Tonya I hear what you are saying, but a scholarship program does not

> provide a choice if

> an option is not available. Nothing in your situation will change with

> the creation of a

> scholarship program. You can continue on with life as you know it. I

> know you are not

> saying, because you can't use a scholarship, you don't want anybody

else

> to use one...

> and I also understand that change is scary... But we have to look at

the

> data out of OH

> and all the data reflects that the autism scholarship program has NOT

> BEEN harmful to the

> public schools or to other families. As a matter of fact the

Democratic

> elect Governor has

> openly said he will make OH autism scholarship pilot program - law!

The

> program has

> benefited 500 families in OH and I don't know about the rest of you

but

> I am so happy

> that 500 families were able to make that choice for their family. Even

> some of the public

> schools have jumped on the scholarship bandwagon and have created a

> school within a

> school. Would that creative thinking have started without a

scholarship

> program?

>

> I believe commented that these scholarships will somehow let

the

> insurance

> companies off of their responsibilities. A scholarship program and

> insurance reform are

> apple and oranges and we need BOTH. Right now OH is working on mental

> health parity

> bill and I believe it has passed the House! They are also working on

> improving their waiver

> programs... So Understand that all reform and improvement in other

areas

> does not

> simply stop because there is a scholarship program. A scholarship bill

> does not fix ALL of

> our woes in TX. If I thought there was one solution out there that

would

> FIX IT ALL IN ONE

> BIG SWOOP, I WOULD DO IT AND KICK ANYONE'S ASS WHO GOT IN MY WAY. But

I

> don't

> know of that 'one' solution. A scholarship program is just another

piece

> in the puzzle to

> help families.

>

> Folks lets not divide ourselves. We want to make sure our policy

makers

> in Texas want to

> continue to work with us in the years to come. There IS urgency for

> change for our

> families and there is ABSOLUTELY NO URGENCY FOR CHANGE AT the TEA.

>

> Much love,

> Liz

>

>

>>

>> What about the children in the rural areas? The major metropolitan

>> areas have alternatives, but Lubbock, Abilene, Amarillo, etc. don't.

>> We're farmers near Lubbock and I'm afraid the smaller, rural schools

>> will quit even trying to teach our children if a voucher is

available.

>> A lot of families, like mine, are tied to the land and can't pick up

> and

>> move to where a school is available.

>>

>> Tonya

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: ginam

>> In the meantime, i think the voucher system is a great help for

>> families

>> whose local public school is inept and unfit to educate their

> chidlren.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

On Behalf Of lizscillian: Tonya I hear what you are saying, but a

scholarship program does not provide a choice if

an option is not available. Nothing in your situation will change with

the creation of a scholarship program.

Not true! Come live in my world for a while. Small, rural schools are

a whole different animal from where you are. They are miniature

fiefdoms where frequently the principal does as they please and dares

someone to do something about it. After all, we all have had a taste of

how helpful TEA is for our kids!

On Behalf Of lizscillian: I also understand that change is scary... But

we have to look at the data out of OH

The program could be very successful in Ohio and still fall on it's face

in Texas. I'm on many national listservs and Texas is VERY different

from any other state.

On Behalf Of lizscillian: Folks lets not divide ourselves.

Then don't push for something that can hurt my child and so many others!

Tonya

[Guest guest]

Tonya,

I am very puzzled and sad that you think - a scholarship program that may

benefit other children with Autism whose local public school did not provide

them with what they need and now can have another option - is going to

" hurt " your child.

This is like saying just because a certain medication did not work for my

child but it did help others, that the insurance company should not pay for

the medication.

I really can't see why are you so much against a program that may provide

opportunities for other children. There is not gonna be anything that can

work for everyone, but let's rejoice in the fact that some children MAY be

helped.

> Then don't push for something that can hurt my child and so many others!

>

> Tonya

>

>

>