Kimchi

[Guest guest]

Aven,

Did you use salt AND whey?

Carol

I attempted three jars of kimchi, which I just opened

after 4 days. One was just cabbage and salt, the

other two had carrots, garlic, and hot pepper in

addition.

One jar released a bit of gas when I opened

it, and smelled like garlic - I *might* dare to eat some.

The other two did nothing and smelled like gym socks -

not appetizing at all.

I'm wondering if I took off the top layer, if the stuff

underneath might be better. I'm also wondering if

it would turn out better if I could keep it all

submerged. But people seem to be saying that's not

necessary.

Anyone have suggestions for me? And where are

Heidi's kimchi files that everyone's talking about? I looked

in the Files section, and found nothing there.

Last question: how do you pronounce the word Kimchi?

I would guess KIMchee from the spelling, but then I would

guess KE-fur from the spelling, and that's wrong. Thanks!

Aven

[Guest guest]

@@@

> Last question: how do you pronounce the word Kimchi?

> I would guess KIMchee from the spelling, but then I would

> guess KE-fur from the spelling, and that's wrong. Thanks!

>

> Aven

@@@

The pronunciation of " kimchi " in English is: first syllable has same

vowel as " him " and second syllable has same onset and vowel as

" cheese " .

BTW, " KE-fur " is not wrong! There are many pronunciations and that

one is as valid as the others. But I can't get started on this

topic, because I don't have time to whine about 's thing on the NN

homepage...

For your " other two " batches of kimchi, just let them sit out longer

and they'll probably get going. It really does help to submerge the

stuff at the top too; just push it down or maybe mix it up a little.

Heidi's file is under " condiments " in the NN Files, which has always

seemed bizarre to me, because I don't think kimchi is a condiment, but

that's where it's hidden...

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

>Heidi's file is under " condiments " in the NN Files, which has always

>seemed bizarre to me, because I don't think kimchi is a condiment, but

>that's where it's hidden...

>

>Mike

I have problems finding it there too! Any thoughts as to where it

should be located?

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

No - I wanted to try to make it casein-free in case

we have to give up milk. Otherwise I would have

added whey, which I would guess is a surer " whey "

to get the LAB going.

Aven

> Aven,

> Did you use salt AND whey?

> Carol

>

>

> I attempted three jars of kimchi, which I just opened

> after 4 days. One was just cabbage and salt, the

> other two had carrots, garlic, and hot pepper in

> addition.

>

> One jar released a bit of gas when I opened

> it, and smelled like garlic - I *might* dare to eat some.

> The other two did nothing and smelled like gym socks -

> not appetizing at all.

>

> I'm wondering if I took off the top layer, if the stuff

> underneath might be better. I'm also wondering if

> it would turn out better if I could keep it all

> submerged. But people seem to be saying that's not

> necessary.

>

> Anyone have suggestions for me? And where are

> Heidi's kimchi files that everyone's talking about? I looked

> in the Files section, and found nothing there.

>

> Last question: how do you pronounce the word Kimchi?

> I would guess KIMchee from the spelling, but then I would

> guess KE-fur from the spelling, and that's wrong. Thanks!

>

> Aven

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- In , Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...>

wrote:

>

> >Heidi's file is under " condiments " in the NN Files, which has always

> >seemed bizarre to me, because I don't think kimchi is a condiment, but

> >that's where it's hidden...

> >

> >Mike

>

> I have problems finding it there too! Any thoughts as to where it

> should be located?

> Heidi Jean

I looked for it under vegetables, I think. Seemed logical to me.

Aven

[Guest guest]

Thanks! I just took off the stuff on top and left them

all sitting out.

Aven

>

> For your " other two " batches of kimchi, just let them sit out longer

> and they'll probably get going. It really does help to submerge the

> stuff at the top too; just push it down or maybe mix it up a little.

>

> Heidi's file is under " condiments " in the NN Files, which has always

> seemed bizarre to me, because I don't think kimchi is a condiment, but

> that's where it's hidden...

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

> The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Aven "

> One jar released a bit of gas when I opened

> it, and smelled like garlic - I *might* dare to eat some.

> The other two did nothing and smelled like gym socks -

> not appetizing at all.

I have a very active jar of kimchi that I'm eating out of. I won't *even*

tell you how my husband describes the smell..... It tastes just as

kimchi should, though.

--s

[Guest guest]

>I read Heidi's kimchi file, and there was something about

>putting in too much salt so nothing at all will grow. I wonder

>if I did that. But nowhere does it say how much is too much.

>I also left the jars in a warmish place for four days - Heidi

>says two days and then into the fridge. So maybe I'll just

>pitch this and start over.

If you put in TOO MUCH salt, then it just doesn't grow any bacteria.

Which doesn't make it toxic, just very salty! It's never happened to

me though, and I tell ya, I love salt so my kimchi is probably more

salty than most. I just taste it, and if it is as salty as, say, a good soup,

I figure it's ok.

Technically, 10% salt is good. 30% salt kills everything.

>I thought the kimchi I bought at Whole Foods smelled nice, and I just

>bought some at the Korean market, and that smelled okay, too.

>I don't know what your husband would think, though ...

I have talked to folks who lived upstairs from Koreans in apartments,

and they HATE the smell of kimchi! Part of it is the temp ... it smells

better if it is in the fridge. Also, the more fish and garlic it has, the

more " interesting " the smell.

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...]

>

> Technically, 10% salt is good. 30% salt kills everything.

10%? By weight? Even excluding the cabbage, that sounds like a lot. I

typically use 4-5 tsp per head of cabbage.

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Aven "

> I read Heidi's kimchi file, and there was something about

> putting in too much salt so nothing at all will grow. I wonder

> if I did that. But nowhere does it say how much is too much.

JME. The batch I made with my friend turned out very salty--she was quite

apologetic after she'd tasted the batch after sitting overnight and told me

to toss in some extra daikon radishes to soak up the salt overage--in fact,

it was almost too salty to eat. I'm not sure if that's the reason for the

smell, but there is no mold and it is a very active batch of kimchi.

> I also left the jars in a warmish place for four days - Heidi

> says two days and then into the fridge. So maybe I'll just

> pitch this and start over.

Warmish would concern me more than too much salt, since warmth can

contribute to spoilage, whereas salt is a preservative.

> I thought the kimchi I bought at Whole Foods smelled nice, and I just

> bought some at the Korean market, and that smelled okay, too.

> I don't know what your husband would think, though ...

Heh. He's new to these things. But then I've got *a lot* of garlic,

onions, shrimp (hence the too salty), and ginger. Oh, and lots of daikon

and she tells me that daikon kimchi really really stinks.

--s

[Guest guest]

>>Oh, and lots of daikon

and she tells me that daikon kimchi really really stinks.

--s<<

~~~I can vouch for that, if it's anything like daikon fermented by itself. I

just through a quart of that out last night, because it was too stinky for me.

(And I love sauerkraut.)

Carol

[Guest guest]

>10%? By weight? Even excluding the cabbage, that sounds like a lot. I

>typically use 4-5 tsp per head of cabbage.

>

>

I need to figure out what they mean by that 10%. It can't be by weight. I use

1 T per quart of liquid. Might be something like molarity ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Heh. He's new to these things. But then I've got *a lot* of garlic,

>onions, shrimp (hence the too salty), and ginger. Oh, and lots of daikon

>and she tells me that daikon kimchi really really stinks.

>

>--s

Onions too! Watch out for using too many onions, they can add this

sulfur smell that is just like an open sewer. The kimchi I make

for my dh has a little garlic, sweet peppers, napa, and dill ... and it

tastes like mild dill pickles. Mix it with some olives and olive oil

and maybe some balsamic vinegar and it makes a great antipasto

salad. No one thinks it smells weird.

Now MY kimchi, OTOH, is redolent ... daikon, shrimp, anchovies, garlic,

green onions ...

>Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 08:57 AM 11/9/04 -0800, you wrote:

>Now MY kimchi, OTOH, is redolent ... daikon, shrimp, anchovies, garlic,

>green onions ...

LOL. Redolent. Such a great word.

Stupid question - does the fermentation get rid of the goitrogens in the

cabbage the same way cooking it would?

*wrapping my mind around making some kimchi once she gets her hands on some

Special Dunkers*

MFJ

I wanna live! I wanna explore the Universe! And I wanna eat pie!

~Urgo

[Guest guest]

>Stupid question - does the fermentation get rid of the goitrogens in the

>cabbage the same way cooking it would?

Seems to. Anyway, raw cabbage makes me ill, kimchi doesn't.

>*wrapping my mind around making some kimchi once she gets her hands on some

>Special Dunkers*

Oh, you'll have such fun. We'll start a revolution ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Cin,

How long did you wait?

Carol

Hi,

I need help from all you kimchi makers out there. Ok, Sunday night I

put together my kimchi. I used Napa cabbage, kosher salt, green onions, red

pepper, minced ginger, minced garlic cloves, some Kimchi juice from a jar I

had from the store and a little vinegar. I followed the method used by

Heidi in the Files section. My kimchi never did anything. I tasted it

after I mixed it all together and it was a little salty so I figured that

was enough salt. Anyway, like I said it never did anything. Never bubbled

or had any built up of gas or air or whatever. What did I do wrong? Any

tips or suggestions welcome.

Thanks,

Cin

[Guest guest]

I have never made any kimchi nor has read extensively about it, but I

believe that garlic is an antibiotic, so does it have a role in

fermentation where bacteria is concerned? Wouldn't the garlic inhibit

the activities of the bacteria?

> Cin,

> How long did you wait?

> Carol

>

>

> Hi,

>

> I need help from all you kimchi makers out there. Ok, Sunday

night I

> put together my kimchi. I used Napa cabbage, kosher salt, green

onions, red

> pepper, minced ginger, minced garlic cloves, some Kimchi juice from

a jar I

> had from the store and a little vinegar. I followed the method

used by

> Heidi in the Files section. My kimchi never did anything. I

tasted it

> after I mixed it all together and it was a little salty so I

figured that

> was enough salt. Anyway, like I said it never did anything. Never

bubbled

> or had any built up of gas or air or whatever. What did I do

wrong? Any

> tips or suggestions welcome.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Cin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cin,

Did the liquid from the storebought kimchi contain preservatives?

Darrell

_______________________________________________

I need help from all you kimchi makers out there. Ok, Sunday night I

put together my kimchi. I used Napa cabbage, kosher salt, green onions, red

pepper, minced ginger, minced garlic cloves, some Kimchi juice from a jar I

had from the store and a little vinegar. I followed the method used by

Heidi in the Files section. My kimchi never did anything. -Cin

[Guest guest]

I am replying to all of your answers and suggestions regarding my kimchi

experiment.

<snip> How long did you wait?

> Carol

Carol,

I left it sitting on the counter for two whole days (i.e. I made it

around 8:00 p.m. on Sunday and left it until Tuesday before I looked at it).

BTW I still have it out on the counter and it's still not doing anything.

<snip> Wouldn't the garlic inhibit the activities of the bacteria?

>

, I'm sure not about any of that - all I know is that every kimchi

recipe I have ever looked at had garlic in it.

<snip> Did the liquid from the storebought kimchi contain preservatives?

> Darrell

Darrell, the kind I bought at the store is called 'King's Kimchi'. The list

of ingredients are: Napa Cabbage, Garlic, Green Onion, Hot Pepper, Sugar,

Salt, Paprika, and Ginger. Doesn't look like any preservatives to me.

<snip> > 1. It might not bubble: mine usually doesn't. It just sits there.

After 2 days it isn't sour, just a tad fermented.

> 2. You might have too much salt ... that will make fermentation go slower

> or not happen at all.

> 3. How warm is your kitchen? If it is cooler, the ferment will take longer

> (but will taste better, from what I've heard).

> 4. How does it smell?

Heidi Jean

Heidi, okay I just tasted it - it tastes a little salty, vinegary (is this a

word?), and spicy. It doesn't taste bad, just not what my store bought

kimchi tasted like - not even close. My kitchen is pretty cool at night as

we turn the air down, but during the day it's warmer. It smells like

vinegary salad.

<snip> How does it smell now? Does it smell like you think it should--like

> you would want to eat it? I have noticed that different fermented

> vegetables have more or less gas than others. My kimchi doesn't do much

> but just sit there--maybe a few bubbles. The salsa bubbles all over the

> place and I have to put a bowl under the jar to keep it from running all

> over the counter. I don't have a crock. I ferment in quart jars and just

> open the jar a little to let out gas a couple of times a day, so the

> really gassy ones make a mess when I do this.

, like I said above, it smells okay, not sour or anything. When I

tasted it, it was rather strong.

Anyway, thanks guys for all your help. If you all can think of anything

else that might be helpful, I'm all ears.

Cin

[Guest guest]

i'd like to say thank you to the person who posted the recipe for

kimchi. i used to eat it about 10 years ago, getting it from the

korean ladies that i taught english to. when that stopped i was

unable to find it. i've just made my first batch this week and it's

great to taste it again.

lynn uk

>

> Hello,

>

> I went to a Korean grocery store to buy some kimchi. In reading

the labels, many brands had MSG, sugar, rice powder and soy sauce

added. I did find one that didn't have these additives listed on the

label. Just info, in case others are purchasing their kimchi.

>

>

>

>

>