Re: Hey Glutenator!

[Guest guest]

> ~~~I asked because I wondered if there were alternatives I've been

missing, but actually, rice, potatoes and corn, all have lectins, according

to Krispin Sullivan:

>

> " The major known potentially 'toxic' lectin containing food groups are

grains, especially wheat and wheat germ but also quinoa, rice, buckwheat,

oats, rye, barley, millet and corn. "

>

> And farther down, she also lists:

>

> " nightshade (includes potato, tomato, eggplant and pepper). "

>

> http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

>

>

> I can't get away with eating any grains, and I imagine it's because they

all have lectins. (Although, fresh corn isn't too bad once in awhile.) I

do ok with nuts, though, so I use nut flour once in awhile for cake, and

arrowroot for thickening.

> Carol

Carol,

Million dollar question for me and her too seems to be why these lectins do

not clump and destruct specific types of blood like lectins of other foods

than her list D'Adamo found. Closest example, why won't corn be specific to

A or AB blood types as cornflakes are?

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>>Carol,

Million dollar question for me and her too seems to be why these lectins do

not clump and destruct specific types of blood like lectins of other foods

than her list D'Adamo found. Closest example, why won't corn be specific to

A or AB blood types as cornflakes are?

Wanita<<

~~~Well, there is a big difference between the lectins the blood makes as an

almost antibody type response to foods ingested, and the lectins inherant in

grains and nightshades. (And whatever other foods are high in lectin content.)

The lectins in those high-lectin food groups attack the digestive tract as they

go through. Perhaps they're not even in tact when those foods hit the blood

stream. I don't know, just hypothesizing, but I do know it's a whole different

process - what D 'Adamo is doing and what high-lectin foods do to our gastric

systems.

The other thing to think about is that D'Adamo is actually injecting the food

into the blood. We're not doing that when we eat foods high in lectins.

Carol

[Guest guest]

I'd be interested to see the other one, if you can copy and paste it into a

post. That would be great.

Also, I was wondering, is there some reason that recipe used egg replacer

instead of eggs? Is egg sensitivity a " thing " with MS?

Cheers, deb

Re: Hey Glutenator!

>>If you have an allergy to the protein, then trace amounts wreck havoc

.... but if it's a lectin problem, tiny amounts aren't so much of an issue.

Anyway, I can't handle popcorn, or ground corn, but corn starch seems ok.<<

~~~Well, I don't know, because I don't have an allergy to all grains, but

all grains give me big problems. I think it could be a matter of one's

state of health. I have very poor health, so that could be why the lectins

affect me so badly. But, I'd like to point out, (for others who could avoid

going down this path that I have), that they didn't used to affect me as

badly - it used to be more like you say - that they weren't so much of an

issue. The thing is, I kept eating them, unwittingly, and now they ARE

wreaking havoc.

Arrowroot is supposed to be darn good stuff though, and potato starch

works good for most things. Tapioca too, which comes from a root. If I could

replicate my bread without using corn starch ....

~~~On the BBD diet List for MS that I belong to, they are making lots of

different breads without gluten or corn. I've seen pictures of some and

they look delicious. (I've never tried them, because of my problems with

all grains.) Here's a link to one of the recipes, but there was one that

everyone was raving about that contained a lot of seeds and slightly

different ingredients that is not at the site. I only have it in a document

file. But here's the basic recipe, if you're interested:

http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=show & pageid=200

Carol

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>~~~On the BBD diet List for MS that I belong to, they are making lots of

different breads without gluten or corn. I've seen pictures of some and they

look delicious. (I've never tried them, because of my problems with all

grains.) Here's a link to one of the recipes, but there was one that everyone

was raving about that contained a lot of seeds and slightly different

ingredients that is not at the site. I only have it in a document file. But

here's the basic recipe, if you're interested:

>http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=show & pageid=200

>Carol

Thanks! I have found some recipes that just naturally don't take much flour, and

those really turn out the best. Plus I've found that really, I like potatoes,

and it's

easier to make hash browns than to make pancakes anyway. Today I made

fat potato chips, using both sweet potatoes and white potatoes. I sometimes

think all these " fancy " recipes are basically ways to disguise the fact that

people

were surviving off loads of flour and were short on meat and vegies. Kind of

like how supermarket food is mostly made of flour and corn syrup, so they

rely on umpteen shapes and flavors to satisfy the desire for variety.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> When the lectins the blood makes as an almost antibody type response to foods

ingested, and the lectins inherant in grains and nightshades. (And whatever

other foods are high in lectin content.) The lectins in those high-lectin food

groups attack the digestive tract as they go through. Perhaps they're not even

in tact when those foods hit the blood stream. I don't know, just

hypothesizing, but I do know it's a whole different process - what D 'Adamo is

doing and what high-lectin foods do to our gastric systems.

Gliadin sticks to anyone's digestive tract, from my readings anyway. In allergic

people this triggers a hyperactive response, and the response is even more

damaging. But I haven't seen much about what all this sticky stuff does to

" normal " people. I suspect it would cause some degree of indigestion and

malabsorption.. The sourdough and full-bran versions of bread, and the custom of

combining bread with olive oil and wine, probably help a lot.

It's kind of like: bee stings always hurt. But they kill you if you are allergic

to bees.

>The other thing to think about is that D'Adamo is actually injecting the food

into the blood. We're not doing that when we eat foods high in lectins.

>Carol

I always wondered about that (haven't read the book though). Lectins are NOT

supposed to make it into the blood stream! They will, in some cases, but in

theory they should not. When they do get into the blood, they can cause other

kinds of problems than blood cell clumping, they attach to nerve endings in some

cases (esp. after the person has had a virus).

Of course some lectins, the ones in some mushrooms, are said to be highly

antibiotic and this is why they are so powerful. Shrimp use lectins to attack

bacteria ... they stick to the bacteria, I guess ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Deb,

>>I'd be interested to see the other one, if you can copy and paste it into a

post. That would be great.<<

~~~I'll try that below.

>>Also, I was wondering, is there some reason that recipe used egg replacer

instead of eggs? Is egg sensitivity a " thing " with MS?<<

~~~That particular diet eliminates eggs until one has been tested for egg

allergy. One of the theories about MS is that patients are allergic to lots of

foods without any common allergy symptoms, however damage is being done 'behind

the scenes', so to speak. In other words, eating allergens causes the immune

system to be constantly overactive, and an over active immune system is one of

the hallmarks of MS. If the person tests negative for egg allergy, then eggs

are ok to eat, but only in moderation, because it's easy to become allergic to

them, if they are eaten too routinely. There is a lot more to the diet, of

course.

Here's the Sesame, Linseed and Pine Nut Loaf recipe, however, it just occured to

me that it may not be a good idea to bake linseeds, (flax), because the oils in

flax are so easily damaged by heat, and therefore turned into transfats.

(That's something I've read since receiving this recipe, so possibly linseeds

should be left out or substituted with something else.) This List originated in

the UK, so that's the reason for some of the references to the UK. There were

pictures of the bread, which looked wonderful, but they didn't copy into my

'Notepad' document. The two guys who created the List started calling

themselves The Baker Boys as part of a running joke about the cooking expertise

of the men vs. the women on the List. (The two sexes were very competitive at

that time, and each side was continually trying to outdo the other with better

and better recipes.) Needless to say, the guy who wrote the recipe is a

stickler for detail, as you will see, if you read the whole thing! :-)

Carol

BAKER BOYS Yeast Free Sesame, Linseed and Pinenut Loaf

What You Will Need In addition to the wet and dry ingredients listed below, you

will need the following. An electric handmixer on medium speed. A large mixing

bowl. A 2lb (8 " x 4 " ) lightly-oiled loaf tin or, if making small rolls,

lightly-oiled scone tray or, if large rolls, lightly-oiled muffin tray. A set of

American cup measures.(A full set of these can be purchased from Barbara's

Kitchen 01443 229304 along with the xanthan gum, the rice flour, potato flour

and, if using, tapioca starch flour, although arrowroot can be substituted for

the latter in emergencies.) Barbara's flours are generally regarded by group

members as the best available in the UK. They are finely milled and give by far

the best results.)

Dry Ingredients: (Remember! The cups are American cup measures). 2 cups white

rice flour 1/2 cup potato flour 1/2 cup tapioca starch flour 4 tsps gluten-free

baking powder. (In the UK, the Supercook brand with a white lid is gluten free

and sold in Tesco. The Supercook red lid is NOT gluten free.) 2 tsp salt 2 tsps

xanthan gum. (Also available from Barbara's Kitchen) 1/4 cup pinenuts 1/4 cup

Golden Linseeds. (Available in Holland and Barrett in the UK.) 1/2 cup sesame

seeds. Wet Ingredients Egg Replacer equivalent of 2 Large Eggs. (With Ener G use

3 tsp Ener G and 6 tbsp hand hot water.) 4 tsp organic apple cider

vinegar.(Aspall's is sold both in Holland & Barrett and in Sainsbury.) 1/2 cup

extra virgin olive oil(4 fl oz or 125ml) 1 & 1/2 cups hand hot water. (12 floz

or 365ml) 2 tbsp Rice Dream (Rice milk used to brush over top)

Method Mix together dry ingredients in a large mixing bowl. Measure out all the

wet ingredients into separate cups/bowls to save time when mixing. Mix together

the wet ingredients by first making up egg replacer, making sure it's all

dissolved, then add to the water and, stirring ALL the time, then add the

vinegar and then the oil. (This is essentially a " quick bread " recipe and the

rising action begins the moment the oil in the wet ingredients and the baking

powder in the dry ingredients come together, so time is of the essence. This

would not be a good time to answer the phone, especially not if the call is from

my wife's sister, by the way.) Make a " well " in the dry ingredients and add the

wet ingredients into the well and begin to mix first with a wooden spoon to

avoid splattering the flour all over the kitchen and then for about 1 minute

with an electric hand mixer on medium until the slightly sloppy, dough-like

batter comes together. (Work the hand mixer through the dough as you're mixing

and, if your mixer has the special dough-making paddles, this can help but is

not essential. The ordinary paddles will still do the job as long as you keep

your hand moving.) After about a minute of mixing, the dough should have come

together and, at this stage, the rest of the bowl should be quite clean. If the

dough is perfect it will flop, in one piece, into the appropriate lightly-oiled

baking tin(s). Make sure that the dough batter is spread evenly and up to the

edges of the tin(s) and then brush, or drizzle, with rice milk for a nice brown

and crispy top. If you wish to add sesame seeds or poppy seeds to the top, you

should do so now. Bake in the ordinary pre-heated oven for 40 mins, at 180

degC(350 degF) or, if using a fan-assisted oven, at 160 degC (320 degF or gas

mark 4). Once baked, try inserting a skewer into the loaf. It should come out

perfectly clean and dry. If not, put back in the oven for 3-5 mins and try

again. This is important! Make sure it?s cooked properly. Once ready, let cool

on a wire rack for at least 30mins to cool before slicing.

Comments Wonderful! It tastes brilliant first day and then after wrapping in

grease proof paper, and then tin foil, it keeps superbly. We took two loaves

with us to Tenerife on holiday, and kept one in the fridge and used during the

first week, and put the second in the freezer for the second week. It can also

be made into 12 small rolls or 6 large rolls and can be reheated straight from

frozen. If you're making the 12 small rolls, then you'll probably want to freeze

most of them. Only brush with rice milk the ones you intend to eat that day.

That way, you can cook them in the oven, straight from frozen, and brush with

rice milk at the time. After 15 mins they should be lightly brown and crispy on

the outside and soft in the inside. Ideal at breakfast time or as a quick snack

or meal option.

[Guest guest]

>>I always wondered about that (haven't read the book though). Lectins are NOT

supposed to make it into the blood stream! They will, in some cases, but in

theory they should not. When they do get into the blood, they can cause other

kinds of problems than blood cell clumping, they attach to nerve endings in some

cases (esp. after the person has had a virus).<<

~~~Leaky gut could cause them to get into the blood stream I believe. But,

here's what D'Adamo says about lectins in foods etc. (I have the book.)

" Many food lectins have characteristics that are close enough to a certain blood

type antigen to make it an " enemy " to another. (Another blood type. My note

here.) For example, milk has B-like qualities; if a person with Type A blood

drinks it, his system will immediately start the agglutination process in order

to reject it.

" Here's an example of how a lectin agglutinates in the body. Let's say a Type A

person eats a plate of lima beans. The lima beans are digested in the stomach

through the process of acid hydrolysis. It doesn't get digested, but stays

intact. It may interact directly with the lining of the stomach or intestinal

tract, or it may get absorbed into your bloodstream along with the digested lima

bean nutrients. Different lectins target different organs and body systems.

" Once the intact lectin protein settles someplace in your body, it literally has

a magnetic effect on the cells in that region. It clumps the cells together and

they are targeted for destruction, as if they, too, were foreign invaders. This

clumping can cause irritable bowel syndrome in the intestines or cirrhosis in

the liver, or block the flow of blood through the kidneys - to name just a few

of the effects. "

Boy, it had been a few years since I read that. Interesting, since I've had

this mysterious liver problem. (I was on the diet for 8-9 months several years

ago, but didn't think it did anything for me.)

Carol

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>Thanks! I have found some recipes that just naturally don't take much flour,

and

those really turn out the best. Plus I've found that really, I like potatoes,

and it's

easier to make hash browns than to make pancakes anyway. Today I made

fat potato chips, using both sweet potatoes and white potatoes. I sometimes

think all these " fancy " recipes are basically ways to disguise the fact that

people

were surviving off loads of flour and were short on meat and vegies. Kind of

like how supermarket food is mostly made of flour and corn syrup, so they

rely on umpteen shapes and flavors to satisfy the desire for variety.<<

~~~I have to agree with you there. That's why I've not made any of the bread

recipes.

Carol

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Thanks Carol,

I'm better off not eating bread myself, but like to have a variety of

recipes for people who are gluten intolerant, but want to eat it. I don't

know if I can be quite as precise as the Baker Boys, but I'll do my best :-)

My understanding is that flaxseed oil can't be heated, but whole or ground

flaxseeds can. If anyone has any info to the conrtrary, that would be good

to know.

Cheers, deb

Re: Hey Glutenator!

Deb,

>>I'd be interested to see the other one, if you can copy and paste it

into a

post. That would be great.<<

~~~I'll try that below.

>>Also, I was wondering, is there some reason that recipe used egg

replacer

instead of eggs? Is egg sensitivity a " thing " with MS?<<

~~~That particular diet eliminates eggs until one has been tested for egg

allergy. One of the theories about MS is that patients are allergic to

lots of foods without any common allergy symptoms, however damage is being

done 'behind the scenes', so to speak. In other words, eating allergens

causes the immune system to be constantly overactive, and an over active

immune system is one of the hallmarks of MS. If the person tests negative

for egg allergy, then eggs are ok to eat, but only in moderation, because

it's easy to become allergic to them, if they are eaten too routinely.

There is a lot more to the diet, of course.

[Guest guest]

> " Once the intact lectin protein settles someplace in your body, it literally

has a magnetic effect on the cells in that region. It clumps the cells together

and they are targeted for destruction, as if they, too, were foreign invaders.

This clumping can cause irritable bowel syndrome in the intestines or cirrhosis

in the liver, or block the flow of blood through the kidneys - to name just a

few of the effects. "

>

>Boy, it had been a few years since I read that. Interesting, since I've had

this mysterious liver problem. (I was on the diet for 8-9 months several years

ago, but didn't think it did anything for me.)

>Carol

Gluten intolerance DEFINITELY causes cirrhosis, but I don't know that the

mechanism is well understood. What I've heard is that it triggers the body to

create autoimmune antibodies, and the body ends up attacking itself, so the

thyroid, liver, or pancreas ends up being destroyed. They have identified the

antibodies, and in the case of T1 diabetes, stopping the offending food stops

the production of the antibodies.

http://www.innerself.com/Health/kail_konrad_53104.htm

Soybean and wheat lectins can produce an increase in permeability in the cells

they bind to, often leading to cell death. Further, lectins can cause the

intestinal villi (the fingerlike projections that give the intestine its

absorptive surface area) to atrophy.

I don't know that this is true in *most* people but it is exactly what happens

in gluten sensitive people. Since most of America eats a LOT of soybeans and

wheat, it may be that most people have leakier guts than they should ...

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Kind of

>like how supermarket food is mostly made of flour and corn syrup, so they

>rely on umpteen shapes and flavors to satisfy the desire for variety.<<

>

>~~~I have to agree with you there. That's why I've not made any of the bread

recipes.

>Carol

As a side note ... if you pick up a book on, say, the Cooking of Provence, you

will find comments like " they use few ingredients, but fresh " ... the really

GOOD

cuisines of the world use some vegies and/or meat, some oil, a little salt and

some

fresh herbs, few ingredients, simply prepared. Fruits are just cut up to make

them

easy to eat.

But when you get into *baking* ... where it is all flour, sugar, eggs ... there

is

a lot of variation and preparation and it's all very time consuming.

OTOH the cooks of Provence do use bread ... I suspect our ancestors though

did very little food prep, just cut it up, or not, and cook it, or not. And of

course

ferment it by burying it for later.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " !

> Arrowroot is supposed to be darn good stuff though, >

Oh, I luuuuuuuuuuv arrowroot starch flour. I don't use it anymore since my

co-op no longer carries the 55# bag for $1.33/lb....I just won't pay close

to $3.00 a lb when I can get potato starch for .99 and tapioca for .49.

and potato starch works good for most things. Tapioca too, which comes from

a root. If I could replicate my bread without using corn starch ....

>

It's been so long since I could use corn starch, but I don't remember a

significant difference in performance between arrowroot and corn. I'd love

to test drive the grain lectin vs. starch lectin theory, but since my guys

react to even pharmaceutical grade citric acid, I bet they wouldn't be

reliable test subjects.

--s

[Guest guest]

>>I don't know that this is true in *most* people but it is exactly what happens

in gluten sensitive people. Since most of America eats a LOT of soybeans and

wheat, it may be that most people have leakier guts than they should ...<<

~~~I think that's the theory with the blood type diets - that it's not just

gluten that will cause lots of health problems. I have been gluten free for so

long, it's hard to imagine my liver problem that 'erupted' in July would be from

gluten.

Carol

[Guest guest]

>>Oh, I luuuuuuuuuuv arrowroot starch flour. I don't use it anymore since my

co-op no longer carries the 55# bag for $1.33/lb....I just won't pay close

to $3.00 a lb when I can get potato starch for .99 and tapioca for .49.

--s<<

Wow! You know what it is at my closest health food store - $9.99 lb! (And, I

have to travel 30 miles to get it for half that.)

Carol

[Guest guest]

Heidi

Do share! Recipes that naturally don't take much flour? and Fat potato

chips? I am assuming that they are not raw... what cooking method did

you use?

L.

>

> Thanks! I have found some recipes that just naturally don't take much flour,

> and

> those really turn out the best. Plus I've found that really, I like

> potatoes, and it's

> easier to make hash browns than to make pancakes anyway. Today I made

> fat potato chips, using both sweet potatoes and white potatoes. I sometimes

> think all these " fancy " recipes are basically ways to disguise the fact that

> people

> were surviving off loads of flour and were short on meat and vegies. Kind of

> like how supermarket food is mostly made of flour and corn syrup, so they

> rely on umpteen shapes and flavors to satisfy the desire for variety.

>

>

>

> Heidi Jean

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Oh, I luuuuuuuuuuv arrowroot starch flour. I don't use it anymore since my

>co-op no longer carries the 55# bag for $1.33/lb....I just won't pay close

>to $3.00 a lb when I can get potato starch for .99 and tapioca for .49.

Hmm ... I wonder where they got the 55# bag? You might be able to buy

it directly. I've had pretty good luck getting things from wholesalers.

Sounds like you have a great coop though!

>It's been so long since I could use corn starch, but I don't remember a

>significant difference in performance between arrowroot and corn. I'd love

>to test drive the grain lectin vs. starch lectin theory, but since my guys

>react to even pharmaceutical grade citric acid, I bet they wouldn't be

>reliable test subjects.

I think you are right ... when folks have immune-style reactions those

trace quantities are bad. Actually in Europe where they allow purified

wheat starch for celiacs, there is some evidence that even that

amount does cause damage over the years (and it is REALLY a trace amount).

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Heidi

>Do share! Recipes that naturally don't take much flour? and Fat potato

>chips? I am assuming that they are not raw... what cooking method did

>you use?

> L.

I was thinking of my brownie recipe when I said that, which I've posted before

but

it's below. It is not healthy! But any flour will work (nut flour too). Also

nut/coconut

press in pie crust (just mix nut meal with coconut oil or butter and a little

sugar if you

want, and press into the pan). Also things like cobblers and crisps ... any

recipe will

do, it's mainly the fruit that makes it, and you can use nut flour or anything

else

to make a crispy topping (hmm ..coconut flakes?).

The potato chips: I just sliced a potato as thin as I could and fried the

" chips " in

coconut oil, in a skillet. They might have gotten crunchy if I'd been more

patient!

You are supposed to soak the slices in iced salt water first too, I've read. I'm

sure

there are recipes on the Web. The French invented potato chips, and they were

served with dinner (not out of a bag!).

Easy Brownies

Melt in a baking pan (9x9, or a pie plate)

1/2 cup butter

2 squares unsweetened chocloate

Add:

1 T cocoa powder

2 eggs

1/4 cup flour

1 tsp. xanthan gum

2 T applesauce (or any cooked mushy fruit or vegetable)

1 t vanilla

Mix it all up. Then add some chopped nuts and marshmallows, if you want. Bake at

350 til done (about 30 minutes).

Top with German chocolate frosting if desired.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>>Oh, I luuuuuuuuuuv arrowroot starch flour. I don't use it anymore since my

>co-op no longer carries the 55# bag for $1.33/lb....I just won't pay close

>to $3.00 a lb when I can get potato starch for .99 and tapioca for .49.

>--s<<

>

>Wow! You know what it is at my closest health food store - $9.99 lb! (And, I

have to travel 30 miles to get it for half that.)

>Carol

Azure standard has a 5lb bag for 6.80, which is about $1.32 a lb?

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>Azure standard has a 5lb bag for 6.80, which is about $1.32 a lb?<<

~~~Thanks Heidi! I found them on line and they have pumpkin seeds WAY less

expensive than what I've been paying too. Have you ordered from them on line?

Carol

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Carol "

> Wow! You know what it is at my closest health food store - $9.99 lb!

(And, I have to travel 30 miles to get it for half that.)

> Carol

I could get Bob's Red Mill through our co-op, but I just won't do it. It's

$3.61 a lb. You might check out the BRM website....you might get a better

price break on it than your HFS. Heck, Azure Standard sells it for cheaper

than my BRM co-op price, but the shipping from one coast to the other evens

out the price difference, so it isn't worth it to me. It might be a better

price break for you.

--s

[Guest guest]

I, for one, welcome our new Glutenator overlord.

<bows and scrapes>

B.

/have always wanted to say that

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:04:25 -0800, Carol <cah@...> wrote:

>

>

> >>Oh, I luuuuuuuuuuv arrowroot starch flour. I don't use it anymore since my

> co-op no longer carries the 55# bag for $1.33/lb....I just won't pay close

> to $3.00 a lb when I can get potato starch for .99 and tapioca for .49.

> --s<<

>

> Wow! You know what it is at my closest health food store - $9.99 lb! (And, I

have to travel 30 miles to get it for half that.)

> Carol

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer "

>

> >>>Oh, I luuuuuuuuuuv arrowroot starch flour. I don't use it anymore

since my

> >co-op no longer carries the 55# bag for $1.33/lb....I just won't pay

close

> >to $3.00 a lb when I can get potato starch for .99 and tapioca for .49.

> >--s<<

> >

> >Wow! You know what it is at my closest health food store - $9.99 lb!

(And, I have to travel 30 miles to get it for half that.)

> >Carol

>

> Azure standard has a 5lb bag for 6.80, which is about $1.32 a lb?

>

Heh. Shoulda known....

--s

[Guest guest]

>~~~Thanks Heidi! I found them on line and they have pumpkin seeds WAY less

expensive than what I've been paying too. Have you ordered from them on line?

>Carol

I've never ordered from them, tho I keep meaning to!

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 04:55 PM 11/18/04 -0800, you wrote:

>

>I, for one, welcome our new Glutenator overlord.

><bows and scrapes>

>

> B.

>/have always wanted to say that

That's only because you covet her perky bantam butts.

MFJ

I wanna live! I wanna experience the Universe! And I wanna eat pie!

~Urgo

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer "

> Hmm ... I wonder where they got the 55# bag?

It's an importer in SF, CA.

You might be able to buy

> it directly. I've had pretty good luck getting things from wholesalers.

> Sounds like you have a great coop though!

I called the importer and they wanted to sell it to me for $3 and some

change a lb. plus shipping. Feh. No price break there. I go through

United Buying Clubs which is United Northeast here. It has a lot of very

good stuff that is essential to my life, but unfortunately, they are phasing

these out and subbing in expensive convenience foods. Even though it is

gluten free, it is highly processed, expensive dreck. I do get *great*

prices on the grains I buy. Oh, and the boys *LUUUUUUUUV* the coconut

rolled dates that I get for them each month.

> I think you are right ... when folks have immune-style reactions those

> trace quantities are bad. Actually in Europe where they allow purified

> wheat starch for celiacs, there is some evidence that even that

> amount does cause damage over the years (and it is REALLY a trace amount).

>

That's what I've read as well. I saw wheat starch the last time I went to

the Asian market and was reeeeeeally tempted. Especially when I remembered

a UKer's description of baked goods, their quality and ease, when using

wheat starch. It was the recollection of the difference between the UK

(wheat starch) celiac population and the US (zero tolerance) celiac

population that stayed my hand.

Man, I need to divorce myself from the emotional component of this food

stuff!

--s