Re: Words again (was: Heidi's dunkers)

[Guest guest]

>>>>>Why don't you let lo'se the descriptivism and learn to appreciate the

beauty

of natural language?

<<<<<

But, " natural language " is nothing but grunts and hand motions! :-) Refining

of language is what has made it possible to convey more of the 'essence' of what

we mean, and in many cases, how we feel. If we drop the intricasies of

language, meanings are lost, mistakes are made and advances in civilization will

ultimately be lost as well. (We've hit on a 'soapbox subject' for me. :-)

Carol

[Guest guest]

> But, " natural language " is nothing but grunts and hand motions! :-) Refining

of language is what has made it possible to convey more of the 'essence' of

what we mean, and in many cases, how we feel. If we drop the intricasies of

language, meanings are lost, mistakes are made and advances in civilization

will ultimately be lost as well. (We've hit on a 'soapbox subject' for me. :-)

> Carol

I agree. It's annoying when you have two words that mean

two different things, and people begin using them

interchangeably, and one of the meanings is lost - you

no longer have a word for that concept - you have two

words for the other one. Gack!

But, as one of my language teachers used to say,

" that's what happens when you let the common folk

use the language. "

Aven

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>But, as one of my language teachers used to say,

" that's what happens when you let the common folk

use the language. "

Aven<<<<<

~~~I tend to think it's more a deterioration in education.

Carol

[Guest guest]

>>>~~~I tend to think it's more a deterioration in education.<<<

It's all well and good for you guys to ask everyone to spell correctly, but

don't forget these lists represent a broad cross-section of the community. While

some of us find spelling to be a relatively easy thing to do correctly, many do

not. Some of these people have conditions that can be helped by better

nutrition. You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a

bit more compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the

dictionary at the moment).

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

> You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a bit more

compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the dictionary at the

moment).

>

> Cheers,

> Tas'.

>

Sounds right Tas, and for those times when a spell checker might be of use..

http://www.spellcheck.net/

Bruce

[Guest guest]

>>>>It's all well and good for you guys to ask everyone to spell correctly, but

don't forget these lists represent a broad cross-section of the community. While

some of us find spelling to be a relatively easy thing to do correctly, many do

not. Some of these people have conditions that can be helped by better

nutrition. You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a

bit more compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the

dictionary at the moment).

Cheers,

Tas'.<<<<<

~~~I wasn't pointing criticism at any specific people, however you

are.......especially since you chose my posting, on which to attach your

comments, when numerous people have posted in this vein, and more pointedly than

I have. In fact, I feel I was defending the cross-culture with my remarks. I'd

be willing to bet I'm as ill as anyone here, and it hasn't affected my spelling.

I also don't feel that I lack compassion. In the future, it might be more well

accepted, if you used a 'clean' email to make your remarks, instead of

addressing one individual's post.

Carol

[Guest guest]

>>>~~~I wasn't pointing criticism at any specific people, however you

are.......especially since you chose my posting, on which to attach your

comments, when numerous people have posted in this vein, and more pointedly than

I have. In fact, I feel I was defending the cross-culture with my remarks. I'd

be willing to bet I'm as ill as anyone here, and it hasn't affected my spelling.

I also don't feel that I lack compassion. In the future, it might be more well

accepted, if you used a 'clean' email to make your remarks, instead of

addressing one individual's post.<<<

Carol,

My remarks were to everyone posting about spelling - that's why I said 'you

guys' ('guys' being non-gender specific). I do, however, take issue with your

comment about the problem being a 'deterioration in education'. I don't deny

that is part of it, but I have read a number of texts about conditions such as

dyslexia being caused by a lack of e.f.a.'s and how supplementation can help

rectify the problem. Also, in my family, my children and their father are in the

'gifted' range and have received and/or are receiving a good education, but

spelling is not high on their lists of talents.

Another thing I thought of, on another list I use, we were surprised recently to

learn there is a woman who is legally blind who uses voice-recognition software

to post and read lists. You just never know who's out there in the cyber-world.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

>>>>>I do, however, take issue with your comment about the problem being a

'deterioration in education'. I don't deny that is part of it, but I have read a

number of texts about conditions such as dyslexia being caused by a lack of

e.f.a.'s and how supplementation can help rectify the problem. Also, in my

family, my children and their father are in the 'gifted' range and have received

and/or are receiving a good education, but spelling is not high on their lists

of talents.<<<<<

~~~If you " take issue " so easily, maybe you should hold that issue to yourself,

because there was no bad intent in my remark. In fact, just the opposite. If

you had noticed, you'd have seen that the posting I was responding to had said

that the problem was due to the " common people " being allowed to use the

language. My response was to impersonalize that and nothing more. You have

brought up a whole other set of conditions that we are all well aware of

already, or we wouldn't even be on this List. (Nothing like bringing up

entirely new content and attacking someone with it!) If you really meant it to

be " you guys " , then post it to " you guys " , not just to me. In case you were not

aware, it is commonly accepted that, when someone's posting is shown as the text

to which a person is responding, that person is being addressed. You singled me

out. None of the rest of us singled anyone out. Where's YOUR compassion?

Carol

Another thing I thought of, on another list I use, we were surprised recently to

learn there is a woman who is legally blind who uses voice-recognition software

to post and read lists. You just never know who's out there in the cyber-world.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

It would be nice if there was a spellchecker built into

the posting program. I couldn't see myself cutting and

pasting every post I write somewhere else so I could

spellcheck it. Personally, I'd rather have people feel free

to communicate here without being self-conscious about

spelling & grammar.

Aven

--- In , " Bruce Stordock " <stordock@t...>

wrote:

> > You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a bit

more

> compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the dictionary at

the

> moment).

> >

> > Cheers,

> > Tas'.

> >

>

> Sounds right Tas, and for those times when a spell checker might be of use..

> http://www.spellcheck.net/

>

> Bruce

[Guest guest]

<snip> I do, however, take issue with your comment about the problem

being a 'deterioration in education'. I don't deny that is part of it,

but I have read a number of texts about conditions such as dyslexia

being caused by a lack of e.f.a.'s and how supplementation can help

rectify the problem. Also, in my family, my children and their father

are in the 'gifted' range and have received and/or are receiving a good

education, but spelling is not high on their lists of talents.

Another thing I thought of, on another list I use, we were surprised

recently to learn there is a woman who is legally blind who uses

voice-recognition software to post and read lists. You just never know

who's out there in the cyber-world.

Cheers,Tas'.

----------------

I'll admit my guilt of being a pathetic typist. Moreover, with so much

jargon, abbreviations and other uses of language that my spell checker

doesn't recognize, I sometimes skip the whole thing and end up with

spelling errors in my posts, as I am too lazy to choose " add word " or

" ignore. "

However, language dynamically evolves as the result of many factors,

such as war, politics, culture, and religion. It always has. AFAIK,

the source of all modern language is thought to come from the Indus

valley. Sanskrit is quite ancient and influences all known tongues

today. Like it or not - all of you NTers - incorrect usage of words and

phrases, when pervasive enough within a culture, will change the

language, for better of worse, and become orthodox.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>

> >>>>>But, as one of my language teachers used to say,

> " that's what happens when you let the common folk

> use the language. "

> Aven<<<<<

>

> ~~~I tend to think it's more a deterioration in education.

> Carol

>

English education and dictionary-writing are social forces

that attempt to keep language from changing (at least

from changing too fast), while actual usage is a force for

change. " Us folks " are constantly changing the way we

use words, especially in speech.

People for whom English is a second language often

have better grammar & spelling because the learn

the language " correctly " from books and teachers, while

native speakers learn it " on the street, " and may be

resistant to teacher's attempts to change their speaking

habits.

It does seem, however, that teachers have

given up the battle in recent years. I think it's become

less and less politically correct to insist on correct

English over the last generation or two. Even highly

educated native Americans are frequently very bad at

putting sentences together, and I don' t think there's an

excuse for this. I get the feeling that English just isn't

being taught.

Change is inevitable, of course, but I do think that we

should fight for standards in English. Otherwise meanings

get lost and communication gets muddled.

Aven

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Where's YOUR compassion?

Carol,

Compassion is one of those highly controlled emotions. If you let it loose,

you could lose something.

[Guest guest]

Me, I often prefer the grunts and hand-gestures version.

MFJ

I wanna live! I wanna explore the Universe! And I wanna eat pie!

~Urgo

[Guest guest]

Ugh--meat...good!

B

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:17:40 -0500, F. Jewett <mfjewett@...> wrote:

>

> Me, I often prefer the grunts and hand-gestures version.

>

> MFJ

> I wanna live! I wanna explore the Universe! And I wanna eat pie!

> ~Urgo

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Me, I often prefer the grunts and hand-gestures version.

>

Hand-gestures! Fer sure dude. Knowing a bit of American Sign Language

is so helpful in sticky situations. I can tell my husband that it's

time to leave a party when he is 50 feet away from me or remark to a

friend about someone's behavior - good or bad - as they sit directly in

front of me.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Aven,

If you receive the posts in an email program like Outlook Express, rather than

reading them at the site, you can use the spell checker in the email

program, if it's activated in the " Options " portion of the program. Mine is set

up to automatically spell-check all my posts, before I press " Send " . Windows

usually comes with Outlook Express, I believe.......not sure since I have an

older version. (Spell-checkers are not infallible, however, and sometimes do

funny things.)

Carol

It would be nice if there was a spellchecker built into

the posting program. I couldn't see myself cutting and

pasting every post I write somewhere else so I could

spellcheck it. Personally, I'd rather have people feel free

to communicate here without being self-conscious about

spelling & grammar.

Aven

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:39:12 -0700

" Bruce Stordock " <stordock@...> wrote:

> > You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a bit more

> compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the dictionary at

the

> moment).

> >

> > Cheers,

> > Tas'.

> >

>

> Sounds right Tas, and for those times when a spell checker might be of use..

> http://www.spellcheck.net/

>

> Bruce

Here is a great little piece of freeware that allows you to check your

spelling in any windows application:

http://tinyurl.com/2lh9n

From the homepage,

" Occasionally you need to check the spelling of words in an application

that does not include a spelling checker and you don't want to launch

your word processor just for that. This is when tinySpell becomes handy.

It is a small utility that allows you to easily and quickly check the

spelling of words in any Windows application. tinySpell monitors your

typing on the fly and alerts you whenever it detects a misspelled word.

It also checks the spelling of every word you copy to the clipboard.

tinySpell installs itself in the system tray for easy access. It comes with

an American-English dictionary containing more than 110,000 words. "

Enjoy.

" Scholarship is essentially confirming your early paranoia through

a deeper factual analysis. "

Murray Rothbard

Voting is Evil

http://tinyurl.com/5ykuz

" Vegetarians, come away from The Dark Side.

Pork is the other white meat; beef is what’s for dinner;

and a day without pepper-crusted venison tenderloin is

like a day without sunshine. "

Brad Edmonds

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/04 12:08:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, cah@...

writes:

> In case you were not aware, it is commonly accepted that, when someone's

> posting is shown as the text to which a person is responding, that person

is

> being addressed. You singled me out. None of the rest of us singled

anyone

> out. Where's YOUR compassion?

_____

~~~~~> I'm singling out this comment and addressing you-- which I don't find

uncompassionate. I agree that if I see a quoted text, I assume the person is

responding to the author of the quoted text. However, if someone is writing

in a thread referring to a misspelling when that misspelling was already

singled out in that thread, then I think any reference in that to a generic

misspelling would suggest reference to the referenced misspelling.

Anyway, the main point I would like to make is that criticizing someone isn't

uncompassionate, even if it is directly and personally addressed.

My spell checker picked up " uncompassionate " but I think I'll leave it--

looks fine to me.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/04 8:16:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,

twyllightmoon@... writes:

> It would be nice if there was a spellchecker built into

> the posting program. I couldn't see myself cutting and

> pasting every post I write somewhere else so I could

> spellcheck it. Personally, I'd rather have people feel free

> to communicate here without being self-conscious about

> spelling & grammar.

____

~~~~> Your email client doesn't have a spellchecker?

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/04 8:53:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

twyllightmoon@... writes:

> Change is inevitable, of course, but I do think that we

> should fight for standards in English.

_____

I tinks dat too.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/04 6:02:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, cah@...

writes:

> ~~~That's true too, but maybe I'm the only one old enough, (at least in

this

> group), to be able to remember all the things that got dropped from

education.

> The elimination of phonetics itself was a big loss. (Sorry, if I'm

> ruffling some teacher's feathers.)

____

~~~~~> No, but your ruffling the feathers of a former first-grader! Ugh,

phonics was such a waste of time... I should have burned my phonics workbook.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

> >>>>>But, as one of my language teachers used to say,

> " that's what happens when you let the common folk

>use the language. "

>Aven<<<<<

>

>~~~I tend to think it's more a deterioration in education.

>Carol

>

I tend to think it is more a deterioration of society.

L.

_________________________________________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

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[Guest guest]

>

I tend to think it is more a deterioration of society.

L.<

~~~That's true too, but maybe I'm the only one old enough, (at least in this

group), to be able to remember all the things that got dropped from education.

The elimination of phonetics itself was a big loss. (Sorry, if I'm ruffling

some teacher's feathers.)

Carol

_________________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

When was phonetics eliminated? I know that geography was dropped before I

had any classes in that. I enjoy homeschooling my kids because of all the

things I get to learn! I can't wait for jr.high! LOL! Of course, this is one

of thew reasons I homeschool. I want my children to learn all the basics,

not just pass a test.

L.

> >

>I tend to think it is more a deterioration of society.

> L.<

>

>~~~That's true too, but maybe I'm the only one old enough, (at least in

>this group), to be able to remember all the things that got dropped from

>education. The elimination of phonetics itself was a big loss. (Sorry, if

>I'm ruffling some teacher's feathers.)

>Carol

>

_________________________________________________________________

Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

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[Guest guest]

> When was phonetics eliminated? I know that geography was dropped

before I

> had any classes in that. I enjoy homeschooling my kids because of all

the

> things I get to learn!

> L.

~~~I think they were being dropped about the time I was in grade

school, (which was the 1950s), because the students who came after me

learned the 'new' math and all new methods. I noticed all this, because

I have nieces and nephews who were just a few years younger than me, and

they were instructed with all the new methods.

Carol