Guest guest Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 >>>>>Why don't you let lo'se the descriptivism and learn to appreciate the beauty of natural language? <<<<< But, " natural language " is nothing but grunts and hand motions! :-) Refining of language is what has made it possible to convey more of the 'essence' of what we mean, and in many cases, how we feel. If we drop the intricasies of language, meanings are lost, mistakes are made and advances in civilization will ultimately be lost as well. (We've hit on a 'soapbox subject' for me. :-) Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 > But, " natural language " is nothing but grunts and hand motions! :-) Refining of language is what has made it possible to convey more of the 'essence' of what we mean, and in many cases, how we feel. If we drop the intricasies of language, meanings are lost, mistakes are made and advances in civilization will ultimately be lost as well. (We've hit on a 'soapbox subject' for me. :-) > Carol I agree. It's annoying when you have two words that mean two different things, and people begin using them interchangeably, and one of the meanings is lost - you no longer have a word for that concept - you have two words for the other one. Gack! But, as one of my language teachers used to say, " that's what happens when you let the common folk use the language. " Aven > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 >>>>>But, as one of my language teachers used to say, " that's what happens when you let the common folk use the language. " Aven<<<<< ~~~I tend to think it's more a deterioration in education. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 >>>~~~I tend to think it's more a deterioration in education.<<< It's all well and good for you guys to ask everyone to spell correctly, but don't forget these lists represent a broad cross-section of the community. While some of us find spelling to be a relatively easy thing to do correctly, many do not. Some of these people have conditions that can be helped by better nutrition. You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a bit more compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the dictionary at the moment). Cheers, Tas'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 > You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a bit more compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the dictionary at the moment). > > Cheers, > Tas'. > Sounds right Tas, and for those times when a spell checker might be of use.. http://www.spellcheck.net/ Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 >>>>It's all well and good for you guys to ask everyone to spell correctly, but don't forget these lists represent a broad cross-section of the community. While some of us find spelling to be a relatively easy thing to do correctly, many do not. Some of these people have conditions that can be helped by better nutrition. You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a bit more compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the dictionary at the moment). Cheers, Tas'.<<<<< ~~~I wasn't pointing criticism at any specific people, however you are.......especially since you chose my posting, on which to attach your comments, when numerous people have posted in this vein, and more pointedly than I have. In fact, I feel I was defending the cross-culture with my remarks. I'd be willing to bet I'm as ill as anyone here, and it hasn't affected my spelling. I also don't feel that I lack compassion. In the future, it might be more well accepted, if you used a 'clean' email to make your remarks, instead of addressing one individual's post. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 >>>~~~I wasn't pointing criticism at any specific people, however you are.......especially since you chose my posting, on which to attach your comments, when numerous people have posted in this vein, and more pointedly than I have. In fact, I feel I was defending the cross-culture with my remarks. I'd be willing to bet I'm as ill as anyone here, and it hasn't affected my spelling. I also don't feel that I lack compassion. In the future, it might be more well accepted, if you used a 'clean' email to make your remarks, instead of addressing one individual's post.<<< Carol, My remarks were to everyone posting about spelling - that's why I said 'you guys' ('guys' being non-gender specific). I do, however, take issue with your comment about the problem being a 'deterioration in education'. I don't deny that is part of it, but I have read a number of texts about conditions such as dyslexia being caused by a lack of e.f.a.'s and how supplementation can help rectify the problem. Also, in my family, my children and their father are in the 'gifted' range and have received and/or are receiving a good education, but spelling is not high on their lists of talents. Another thing I thought of, on another list I use, we were surprised recently to learn there is a woman who is legally blind who uses voice-recognition software to post and read lists. You just never know who's out there in the cyber-world. Cheers, Tas'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 >>>>>I do, however, take issue with your comment about the problem being a 'deterioration in education'. I don't deny that is part of it, but I have read a number of texts about conditions such as dyslexia being caused by a lack of e.f.a.'s and how supplementation can help rectify the problem. Also, in my family, my children and their father are in the 'gifted' range and have received and/or are receiving a good education, but spelling is not high on their lists of talents.<<<<< ~~~If you " take issue " so easily, maybe you should hold that issue to yourself, because there was no bad intent in my remark. In fact, just the opposite. If you had noticed, you'd have seen that the posting I was responding to had said that the problem was due to the " common people " being allowed to use the language. My response was to impersonalize that and nothing more. You have brought up a whole other set of conditions that we are all well aware of already, or we wouldn't even be on this List. (Nothing like bringing up entirely new content and attacking someone with it!) If you really meant it to be " you guys " , then post it to " you guys " , not just to me. In case you were not aware, it is commonly accepted that, when someone's posting is shown as the text to which a person is responding, that person is being addressed. You singled me out. None of the rest of us singled anyone out. Where's YOUR compassion? Carol Another thing I thought of, on another list I use, we were surprised recently to learn there is a woman who is legally blind who uses voice-recognition software to post and read lists. You just never know who's out there in the cyber-world. Cheers, Tas'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 It would be nice if there was a spellchecker built into the posting program. I couldn't see myself cutting and pasting every post I write somewhere else so I could spellcheck it. Personally, I'd rather have people feel free to communicate here without being self-conscious about spelling & grammar. Aven --- In , " Bruce Stordock " <stordock@t...> wrote: > > You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a bit more > compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the dictionary at the > moment). > > > > Cheers, > > Tas'. > > > > Sounds right Tas, and for those times when a spell checker might be of use.. > http://www.spellcheck.net/ > > Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 <snip> I do, however, take issue with your comment about the problem being a 'deterioration in education'. I don't deny that is part of it, but I have read a number of texts about conditions such as dyslexia being caused by a lack of e.f.a.'s and how supplementation can help rectify the problem. Also, in my family, my children and their father are in the 'gifted' range and have received and/or are receiving a good education, but spelling is not high on their lists of talents. Another thing I thought of, on another list I use, we were surprised recently to learn there is a woman who is legally blind who uses voice-recognition software to post and read lists. You just never know who's out there in the cyber-world. Cheers,Tas'. ---------------- I'll admit my guilt of being a pathetic typist. Moreover, with so much jargon, abbreviations and other uses of language that my spell checker doesn't recognize, I sometimes skip the whole thing and end up with spelling errors in my posts, as I am too lazy to choose " add word " or " ignore. " However, language dynamically evolves as the result of many factors, such as war, politics, culture, and religion. It always has. AFAIK, the source of all modern language is thought to come from the Indus valley. Sanskrit is quite ancient and influences all known tongues today. Like it or not - all of you NTers - incorrect usage of words and phrases, when pervasive enough within a culture, will change the language, for better of worse, and become orthodox. Deanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 > > >>>>>But, as one of my language teachers used to say, > " that's what happens when you let the common folk > use the language. " > Aven<<<<< > > ~~~I tend to think it's more a deterioration in education. > Carol > English education and dictionary-writing are social forces that attempt to keep language from changing (at least from changing too fast), while actual usage is a force for change. " Us folks " are constantly changing the way we use words, especially in speech. People for whom English is a second language often have better grammar & spelling because the learn the language " correctly " from books and teachers, while native speakers learn it " on the street, " and may be resistant to teacher's attempts to change their speaking habits. It does seem, however, that teachers have given up the battle in recent years. I think it's become less and less politically correct to insist on correct English over the last generation or two. Even highly educated native Americans are frequently very bad at putting sentences together, and I don' t think there's an excuse for this. I get the feeling that English just isn't being taught. Change is inevitable, of course, but I do think that we should fight for standards in English. Otherwise meanings get lost and communication gets muddled. Aven > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 > Where's YOUR compassion? Carol, Compassion is one of those highly controlled emotions. If you let it loose, you could lose something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Me, I often prefer the grunts and hand-gestures version. MFJ I wanna live! I wanna explore the Universe! And I wanna eat pie! ~Urgo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Ugh--meat...good! B On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:17:40 -0500, F. Jewett <mfjewett@...> wrote: > > Me, I often prefer the grunts and hand-gestures version. > > MFJ > I wanna live! I wanna explore the Universe! And I wanna eat pie! > ~Urgo > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 wrote: > Me, I often prefer the grunts and hand-gestures version. > Hand-gestures! Fer sure dude. Knowing a bit of American Sign Language is so helpful in sticky situations. I can tell my husband that it's time to leave a party when he is 50 feet away from me or remark to a friend about someone's behavior - good or bad - as they sit directly in front of me. Deanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Aven, If you receive the posts in an email program like Outlook Express, rather than reading them at the site, you can use the spell checker in the email program, if it's activated in the " Options " portion of the program. Mine is set up to automatically spell-check all my posts, before I press " Send " . Windows usually comes with Outlook Express, I believe.......not sure since I have an older version. (Spell-checkers are not infallible, however, and sometimes do funny things.) Carol It would be nice if there was a spellchecker built into the posting program. I couldn't see myself cutting and pasting every post I write somewhere else so I could spellcheck it. Personally, I'd rather have people feel free to communicate here without being self-conscious about spelling & grammar. Aven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:39:12 -0700 " Bruce Stordock " <stordock@...> wrote: > > You wouldn't want to scare them away, would you? How about being a bit more > compassionate (I hope that's spelt correctly, I can't find the dictionary at the > moment). > > > > Cheers, > > Tas'. > > > > Sounds right Tas, and for those times when a spell checker might be of use.. > http://www.spellcheck.net/ > > Bruce Here is a great little piece of freeware that allows you to check your spelling in any windows application: http://tinyurl.com/2lh9n From the homepage, " Occasionally you need to check the spelling of words in an application that does not include a spelling checker and you don't want to launch your word processor just for that. This is when tinySpell becomes handy. It is a small utility that allows you to easily and quickly check the spelling of words in any Windows application. tinySpell monitors your typing on the fly and alerts you whenever it detects a misspelled word. It also checks the spelling of every word you copy to the clipboard. tinySpell installs itself in the system tray for easy access. It comes with an American-English dictionary containing more than 110,000 words. " Enjoy. " Scholarship is essentially confirming your early paranoia through a deeper factual analysis. " Murray Rothbard Voting is Evil http://tinyurl.com/5ykuz " Vegetarians, come away from The Dark Side. Pork is the other white meat; beef is what’s for dinner; and a day without pepper-crusted venison tenderloin is like a day without sunshine. " Brad Edmonds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 In a message dated 11/8/04 12:08:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, cah@... writes: > In case you were not aware, it is commonly accepted that, when someone's > posting is shown as the text to which a person is responding, that person is > being addressed. You singled me out. None of the rest of us singled anyone > out. Where's YOUR compassion? _____ ~~~~~> I'm singling out this comment and addressing you-- which I don't find uncompassionate. I agree that if I see a quoted text, I assume the person is responding to the author of the quoted text. However, if someone is writing in a thread referring to a misspelling when that misspelling was already singled out in that thread, then I think any reference in that to a generic misspelling would suggest reference to the referenced misspelling. Anyway, the main point I would like to make is that criticizing someone isn't uncompassionate, even if it is directly and personally addressed. My spell checker picked up " uncompassionate " but I think I'll leave it-- looks fine to me. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 In a message dated 11/8/04 8:16:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, twyllightmoon@... writes: > It would be nice if there was a spellchecker built into > the posting program. I couldn't see myself cutting and > pasting every post I write somewhere else so I could > spellcheck it. Personally, I'd rather have people feel free > to communicate here without being self-conscious about > spelling & grammar. ____ ~~~~> Your email client doesn't have a spellchecker? Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 In a message dated 11/8/04 8:53:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, twyllightmoon@... writes: > Change is inevitable, of course, but I do think that we > should fight for standards in English. _____ I tinks dat too. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 In a message dated 11/8/04 6:02:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, cah@... writes: > ~~~That's true too, but maybe I'm the only one old enough, (at least in this > group), to be able to remember all the things that got dropped from education. > The elimination of phonetics itself was a big loss. (Sorry, if I'm > ruffling some teacher's feathers.) ____ ~~~~~> No, but your ruffling the feathers of a former first-grader! Ugh, phonics was such a waste of time... I should have burned my phonics workbook. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 > >>>>>But, as one of my language teachers used to say, > " that's what happens when you let the common folk >use the language. " >Aven<<<<< > >~~~I tend to think it's more a deterioration in education. >Carol > I tend to think it is more a deterioration of society. L. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 > I tend to think it is more a deterioration of society. L.< ~~~That's true too, but maybe I'm the only one old enough, (at least in this group), to be able to remember all the things that got dropped from education. The elimination of phonetics itself was a big loss. (Sorry, if I'm ruffling some teacher's feathers.) Carol _________________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 When was phonetics eliminated? I know that geography was dropped before I had any classes in that. I enjoy homeschooling my kids because of all the things I get to learn! I can't wait for jr.high! LOL! Of course, this is one of thew reasons I homeschool. I want my children to learn all the basics, not just pass a test. L. > > >I tend to think it is more a deterioration of society. > L.< > >~~~That's true too, but maybe I'm the only one old enough, (at least in >this group), to be able to remember all the things that got dropped from >education. The elimination of phonetics itself was a big loss. (Sorry, if >I'm ruffling some teacher's feathers.) >Carol > _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 > When was phonetics eliminated? I know that geography was dropped before I > had any classes in that. I enjoy homeschooling my kids because of all the > things I get to learn! > L. ~~~I think they were being dropped about the time I was in grade school, (which was the 1950s), because the students who came after me learned the 'new' math and all new methods. I noticed all this, because I have nieces and nephews who were just a few years younger than me, and they were instructed with all the new methods. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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