Re: Oxalic acid in beet kvass?? neutalized?

[Guest guest]

@@@ :

> Could anyone in this wise group please

> tell me if there is oxalic acid in beet

> kvass? If so is it nuetralized be the

> fermentation? Just trying to figure out

> if I should keep making this stuff.

@@@

As per our very recent thread on oxalates, no, it's NOT neutralized by

fermentation in beet kvass, but you should definitely keep making it

because it's a great and healthy food! There is no reason to totally

avoid foods containing oxalates, unless the levels are high enough to

be toxic, like skunk cabbage or something. As far as I know, the

oxalate levels in beetroot are not high enough to pay attention to.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

,

According to this site, there is no oxalic acid in beets, just their leaves.

I'm kind of surprised, however, that it's in so many veggies. I only knew it

was in raw spinach. (I've read cooking spinach removes it. I wonder if that's

the case with the other veggies that contain it.)

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Other/oxalic.html

Carol

Hi,

Could anyone in this wise group please

tell me if there is oxalic acid in beet

kvass? If so is it nuetralized be the

fermentation? Just trying to figure out

if I should keep making this stuff.

Thanks in advance!

[Guest guest]

@@@@

> According to this site, there is no oxalic acid in beets, just their leaves.

> I'm kind of surprised, however, that it's in so many veggies. I only knew

> it was in raw spinach. (I've read cooking spinach removes it. I wonder if

> that's the case with the other veggies that contain it.)

> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Other/oxalic.html

> Carol

@@@@

This is just a short list of foods and their oxalic acid values. The

fact that beets are not on the list cannot possibly be interpreted to

mean they have no oxalic acid!!!!! By the same reasoning you could

say " according to this site, there is no oxalic acid in skunk

cabbage " !!!! Obviously this is not a comprehensive list of all food

containing oxalic acid, of which there must be thousands, including

many common foods we all eat on a regular basis. Further, you'll note

that many of the items of the list have levels almost at zero

(coriander, kale, turnip greens, etc), so it's not even a list of food

that " have " oxalic acid in any meaningful way!

By the way, according to Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical

Databases, beetroot does have oxalic acid, but the levels are very low

(404 ppm).

Also, as per our very recent thread on oxalates, cooking **does not**

remove it except possibly small amounts of soluble oxalates in

water-based cooking.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

Do you know where there is a better list?

Carol

This is just a short list of foods and their oxalic acid values. The

fact that beets are not on the list cannot possibly be interpreted to

mean they have no oxalic acid!!!!! By the same reasoning you could

say " according to this site, there is no oxalic acid in skunk

cabbage " !!!! Obviously this is not a comprehensive list of all food

containing oxalic acid, of which there must be thousands, including

many common foods we all eat on a regular basis. Further, you'll note

that many of the items of the list have levels almost at zero

(coriander, kale, turnip greens, etc), so it's not even a list of food

that " have " oxalic acid in any meaningful way!

By the way, according to Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical

Databases, beetroot does have oxalic acid, but the levels are very low

(404 ppm).

Also, as per our very recent thread on oxalates, cooking **does not**

remove it except possibly small amounts of soluble oxalates in

water-based cooking.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

> Do you know where there is a better list?

>

>

> Carol

No, unfortunately I've never been able to find one besides the one you

cited, which is from about 20 years ago, except that you can enter

" oxalate " or " oxalic acid " (do both because you get different lists)

as a chemical query in Duke's database

(http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/), which is useful, but not really

satisfactory for various reasons not too hard to discern...

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

>>>Do you know where there is a better list? Carol<<<

How about this:

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/oxalates.html

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

>>>Do you know where there is a better list? Carol<<<

>>>How about this:

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/oxalates.html

Cheers,

Tas'.<<<

Pretty good! Helps back the point that , (was it?), made that there are

oxalates in beet root as well as beet leaf. Seems like, if you want low

oxalates, you'd have to eliminate all dark green leafy veggies. Guess I'll just

drop that idea. I have osteopenia and was trying to avoid oxalates, because of

that, but those same veggies are the ones with the highest nutrient content that

would help gaurd against bone loss too!

Thanks Tas, very helpful.

Carol

[Guest guest]

@@@

> How about this:

>

> http://www.drkaslow.com/html/oxalates.html

>

> Cheers,

> Tas'.

@@@

My advice is to TOTALLY IGNORE THIS LIST!! I'm pretty sure it's full

of ridiculous errors, besides offering nothing than the very sketchy

categories of " low " , " medium " , and " high " . It has no numerical data,

and it conflicts with the USDA and DEPD (Dr. Duke's ... database) on

many items! It seems to be very full of you know what and based on

guesses and overgeneralizations from questionable sources. I've seen

another site in the past when I was very interested in this topic that

seemed totally off about their oxalate data, and I emailed the guy, a

doctor I think, about it. He said he didn't have any sources to give

me and he planned to update it or work on it sometime, and apologized.

You have to be very careful with these kinds of websites. Even the

USDA data is suspect sometimes. I always look for contradictions

from different sources.

Someone posted a similar (or maybe it was the same) list on NN last

month during our oxalate threads, and I meant to give a similar

warning about its accuracy, but I didn't get around it (maybe it's

still in my " pending email " folder...).

@@@ Carol:

Pretty good! Helps back the point that , (was it?), made that

there are oxalates in beet root as well as beet leaf. Seems like, if

you want low oxalates, you'd have to eliminate all dark green leafy

veggies. Guess I'll just drop that idea. I have osteopenia and was

trying to avoid oxalates, because of that, but those same veggies are

the ones with the highest nutrient content that would help gaurd

against bone loss too!

Thanks Tas, very helpful.

@@@@

Yes, but from the data I've seen, the oxalate levels in beetroot are

much lower than the leaves, which aren't especially high.

It's clearly false that all dark leafy veggies are high in oxalates.

Look no further than the list you yourself cited the other day. It

lists coriander leaves, kale, and turnip greens as having negligibly

tiny amounts of oxalate, and these are prototypical dark leafy

veggies!! Three of my favorites no less.

If you have osteopenia, by all means eat as many greens as possible!!

Besides the minerals, you're getting vit K1 from them. I've never

heard of any connection between oxalates and bone health, just kidney

stones and the like, and oxalates shouldn't be a problem for anything

unless there's an independent problem permitting them to be a problem.

But if you can cite any info about such a connection, please let me

know, as I'm very worried about my bones too and I want to know

everything possible about bone health. Keep in mind the point others

have made about gut microflora reducing oxalic acid levels; it seems

like all health starts with the right bugs in the gut.

By the way, don't forgot your sea veggies for getting minerals,

especially trace minerals. You might want to look into whether

you're getting enough silicon in your diet; I haven't had a chance to

look into this yet myself, so I have no knowledge to share.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

> By the way, don't forgot your sea veggies for getting minerals,

> especially trace minerals. You might want to look into whether

> you're getting enough silicon in your diet; I haven't had a chance

to

> look into this yet myself, so I have no knowledge to share.

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

Mike, I get my seaweed from the Maine Seaweed Company. (I think you

had mentioned them as a source) I usually eat it raw--I just munch

on it and it keeps my salt and junk carb cravings at bay. Do you

think this is OK? Am I getting the minerals from it this way, or

does it have to be soaked and cooked to get the minerals from it?

Thanks for whatever you may know--

Sara Petsch